The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike

[2door]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

The first time you take away the jack stands (coffee cans) and see it actually setting on its own is a milestone. It is looking just too cool. It looks fast just standing there.
Great work. I love it.
Tom

 

[silverbear]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Mechanical sculpture or functional art... something like that. I know I just like looking at it. Wish i could be there to see you roll away on it for the first time and see your smile. Oh boy...
SB

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

"The Devil's in the details", but you have it down to a modern science. Bring that beast to as many shows as you can. Beautiful!

You're absolutely right, the devil is in the details & they plague me... but lol - it's what I love 'bout tinkerin' on these things

Problem w/the shows is... what "class" is it? What is it even? *shrug* at least I know it'd stand a chance at "best in class" hehe

I got in on this thread WAY late but it is SO cool! The center engine is my favorite part! That's the way they build and balance some of the fastest cars in the world! Next on my list is the frame and suspension! amazing job! I love it! Keep going

Yer not "late" by any means man - there's still a freakin' ton of things I need do, tho I call it "my winter project" there's no way in heck it'll be done by spring. Although I'll hopefully be riding it midsummer or so - even then the potential upgrades & refinements are nearly infinite, sometimes it makes me brain hurt lol

Yes! I too am a fan of mid-engine design, tho I believe almost all methods of motorizing a bik... erm... trike are completely valid in their own right, I also believe strongly in an old saying common in both boating and avation - and that's "everything is a compromise". I sacrificed a two-wheel design's handling for comfort, the low, mid-engine weight helps make up for that a bit. I hope I can dig up three bathroom scales so I can dial in the moments, the balance between the front wheels and fore & aft... I don't think it'll make much of a difference, mostly hoping it won't nose-dive should it leave the ground... for some reason

Geoff That is looking real good I love it!!...wish I could ride it lol.

Me too Dave ...TBH this one is actually far friendlier to "demo rides" than my others, while the shifting is... complicated, to "get a feel" for the thing it should be simplicity itself - just by not using the ICE at all, then it's but a matter of one thumb throttle for the 'letric & brakes. I'm lookin' forward to lettin my friends check it out - it may "look cool" but I think the far more interestin' thing would be how it goes...

Nice work!!! That thing looks perfect

Thanks goat! I assure you it isn't heh - the pics are conveniently too small to show alla my lil... oversights - but it's gettin' there

The first time you take away the jack stands (coffee cans) and see it actually setting on its own is a milestone. It is looking just too cool. It looks fast just standing there.
Great work. I love it.
Tom

I agree, the next "milestone" will be when I can park my butt on it and make the "vroomie" noises... erm... I mean establish proper ergonomics and control placement ofc.

Mechanical sculpture or functional art... something like that. I know I just like looking at it. Wish i could be there to see you roll away on it for the first time and see your smile. Oh boy...
SB

Thanks silver - but oddly, I really can't take a whole lot of credit for it's appearance, at this stage it's form is derived purely from it's function - the components themselves dictating how it looks... TBH I didn't have a lot of choice in the matter, everythin' kinda has to be what it is or it'd not go together, but I am happy with how it's turning out... and yea, I spend a bit of time jus' staring at it heh

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Wow, I have to admit this does look awesome. This does seem to be coming together nicely! Any ideas when your butt will be in the seat for a test run?

Gary

 

[Mac]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Keep up the posts/PIC, I'd love to be there when ya crank it up, I'm close-by too.

Mac

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

lol thanks guys, it's quite flattering to see folks as anxious to see this thing on the road as I am heh - but I gotta say, it's still quite a long way from completion... the pics are a touch deceptive I think.

The biggest "hurdle" at this point is I've been stricken down by a pretty nasty chest cold, I've tried - but haven't managed to get much of anything done since the last posting. Well... I did get the pedal crank sorted, it had been cross-threaded by the previous owner and I wanted to upgrade it to a sealed bearing setup - while far more of a headache than it shoulda been, that's all cleaned up & finished anyway.

As for the rest of the build, the next biggest thing is the steering linkages & I only just ordered them yesterday from Tie Rods & Accessories : BMI Karts & Supplies ...until they get here I can only guess at the problems I'll have lol

The list goes on... I've still a bunch of parts to purchase, like the programmable cruise controller from GM Canada Golden Motor ebike Canada a thumb throttle for the ICE, a sprocket for the engine drive side, a freewheel for the pedal drive side, proper twist shifters, about a million miles of multispeed chain and assorted idlers & tensioners, the clip-in pedals & shoes to match, brake and throttle cables, as well as other assorted doodads and whatnot I'm sure I'm forgetting - ALL of which I gotta get before I can even sort out where they go or how to mount them lol

Which brings up the rest of the stuff ta do, the fabrication part - brake mounts, cable mounts, battery mounts, motor mounts, tank & seat mounts, all kindsa brackets & thingies to hold all the stuff together as well as things I might as well tend to before they're a problem - like torsion arms for the electric hub and lathing up replacement swing arm bushings out of brass instead of the squishy rubber ones it came with (excessive lateral play)... and there's the really "interesting" part, the wacko wiring harness of doom I've gotta figure out, combining the 'lectric and ICE charging systems as well as lights & blinkers ofc.

Then it gets all torn back down again to complete all the welds, I think at that point I'll sandblast the chassis and suspension to have it powder coated... probably - I dunno yet as I suspect at that point Ill be gettin' pretty impatient heh

Don't get me wrong - a LOT of the above is easier than it sounds... but there is a lot to be done still *shrug* I try to get at least a lil somethin' done every day, figurin' sooner or later I'll find myself standing there and wondering to myself what to do next...

Only to realize it's time to ride

 

[Cogswelln]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Hey i missed a lot on my vacation. Looking awesome. It is definitely looking good, if you need some one to help transport i can fire up my trike.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

lol thanks Cog - that'd be a sight eh?

TBH, I'm still sick as heck and really haven't managed to get anything done to speak of... tho I gotta say my daily commute has become really quite exciting, being all doped out on prescription cough medicine while riding our lovely Maine roads lol



Still, as they say - whatever doesn't kill ya... makes ya vaguely annoyed?

Anyway - enough whining about cold & colds, I did make some progress on the steering linkages, figuring out the best turning radius I can manage with this setup, cutting & tapping the tie rods to length and getting their placement on the steering plate sorted. I've still some "prettying up" to do and I need to weld the plate's mount to the suspension box as well as trim back the battery mounts to clear the linkages... but... I think it's all gonna work out, which is a relief as this particular aspect had me concerned, there's some funky math what with levers, angles, length of throw, clearances, sensitivity, etc. etc. etc. heh - none of which was stuff I shoulda been messin' with all wacked out on cough syrup... yea, Ima lightweight *sigh*

 

[Dan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Lookin' good BA.

Feel better soon

 

[MarkSumpter]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

BA this is just too sick to contemplate... I envision an enclosed cockpit and canopy entrance with down draft air foils on the front in a canard design LOL... I hate you too much (not really) right now for building such a sweet toy I dont have....

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks heh, but ya don't needta hate - jus' build one fer yerself, then I'll have someone ta race lol There are ...some problems w/a enclosed fairing tho Mark, mostly a somewhat ungainly overall length (pedal boom/frt wheels so far back). It can be done ofc, it's just not the best suited fer what I'm after. I've thought about it a bunch and I'm not sayin' it'll never happen - but I've scrapped the idea for now at least.



Well, been feelin’ a bit better these days (w00t!) and so I’ve been back at it, sortin’ out the details that so befuddled me during my extended cough medicine binge… of course during that time “which shoe, which foot” seemed an unfathomable mystery, a 50/50 chance at best

I’ve found I’ve had to extend my handlebar width 1” (1/2” each side)… which actually isn’t a problem as it provides a few benefits, not only might I have something weird in a pants pocket but there’s bulky cold weather clothes to consider – but the real reasons are tire rod location and the complexity of the battery support trays, which need to be structures easily removable.

Removable yet strong battery trays are kinda critical, the batteries are one of the things I cheaped out on, they’re SLAs so they’re bulky, heavy and inefficient. As the battery tech I want is roughly $6-800 for this setup yet I don’t even know if this will prove an effective application of the “hybrid” design, ya can prolly see why I was unwilling to make that kinda investment jus’ yet.

So, best case scenario I’ll be psyched with the performance and fuel efficiency benefits of my “electric supercharger” concept, but disappointed in it’s range/duration and I’ll upgrade to the far smaller and lighter LiFePO4s, worst case it’ll be just heavy and annoying and I’ll yank the ‘lectrics off and stick them on another bike – either way I’ll need to make new trays or remove them entirely *shrug* But… of course the tie rods “want” to be right where the only place for the battery tray support is and their location isn’t particularly negotiable, their placement is already further back and lower than I’d like (ground clearance & pedal chain routing), yet I found by widening the rearmost tie rod mounts by a mere 1” overall everything seems to work out well!

Still need to trim the batt mount plates back, but w/the spacers the tie rods will clear the tubing supports, wheels are turned to show tie rod locations;



Full turn (I can squeeze a bit more outa it if I need to & obv handlebars are not attached), and steering pivot plate (jus' clamped in place ATM);



All of this, hours spent staring at the thing and thinkin’ to myself “now whut the heck have I done?” – just for two silly 1/2” spacers, and even those couldn’t be a simple matter of hackin’ up a chunk of pipe… naturally nothing fit, of course I hadta dremel out the inside diameter about 1/16” and made sure they’re uniform w/a perfect 90° edge so they won’t bind the steering… lol, bedanged devilish details

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Hadta tear it down and pack it all up to transport it to work again, this time takin' everythin' but the fuel tank, batteries, ICE & seat... and realized that should I ever need to transport the thing in a small car - it really wont be much of a problem at all, bit of a surprise really given it's size & relative complexity. Turns out it's a mere matter of six bolts for the A arms, two for the steering & two for the rear suspension/stays (not inc cables/chain etc. ofc).

In fact, because of it's "complexity" it breaks down quite a bit smaller than yer average taddy due to it's suspension. Normally you can only pull the wheels & pedal boom w/most - with this I can leave the wheels in place and pull the stays & A arms, making for a much smaller package.

Naturally, it's heaver and may leak all o'er the place - but hey, I'll take what I can get heh

Soo... after gettin' the steering sorted as much as I can at this stage, I realized that I'd come to an impasse - there's about a million things I still need to attend to... but until I can park my butt on the thing to make the vroomie noises to myself, I can't be 100% sure everything is where I need it to be & should I continue, I could well "paint myself into a corner". Yet it's all just tack welded, I'd end up in a very undignified heap of busted parts should I dare to try to put any weight on it.

I really need to invest in my own MIG... but man, the one at work is so much nicer than I could afford... well, I guess I can't complain, at least I can use it & best yet? *whispers* I don't hafta pay fer materials (gas or wire, metal still costs ofc) *whistles innocently*

Anyway - I'm really not the skilled welder, I was certified, but other than a few tacks here and there I've not touched a MIG in almost twenty years. (amazing how time flies). I have been very fortunate - I've always had a friend or two with skills and equipment, someone I could holler at should something go horridly wrong lol Still, after watchin' the Rollfast's fuel tank sit tacked & waiting for my friend to have a bit of spare time (almost a month, no complaint - not his fault) I decided to grow up a bit and zot some stuff meself.

Naturally it didn't go as well as I'd hoped... but far better than I feared. Saving the hinky & difficult pipe welding for my good friend to get frustrated with (prolly to TIG actually), I summoned up my courage and played w/the molten steel for the first time in years - weldin' up all the flat stock, the easy stuff & flippin' the taddy all over the place like a drunken dice game to make sure I was only welding horizontally - by far the easiest method.

MIGs are really awesome! Despite my incompetence, of all the beads I did I really only need to grind and redo two small ones (one I had tried vertical and made a mess, the other I... well I lost my place & wandered lol), nether is a problem at all to fix.

 

[Cogswelln]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

IT is looking good, cant wait to see it move, if need any help trans prting or anything give me a holler

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks cog, it "moves" alla time... but I s'pose ya mean under it's own power heh - defo lookin' forward to rollin' out ona trike cruise w/ya man, it's gonna be a lil while longer tho *shrug*



Well, I've still some welding ta do, but it's been crazy at work lately... excepting the occasional sneaky zot when no one is lookin' I can't get anywhere near the MIG. I figure it's either a conspiracy, everythin' in Maine somehow broke at the same time, or it's jus' spring lol

I have managed to attend to some kinda important details as well as some not so important like dressin' up my welds, a lil bit of temporary paint and scoring some metric fasteners so I can actually bolt the blasted shocks in heh. I have done a bit of welding & fab, like the under supports for the frame/pedal boom & I've also gotten the rear wheel/suspension pivot to be in near perfect alignment finally - and welded sos it'll stop messin' w/me... prolly gonna add a coupla gussets tho, jus' to be safe.



Now that the chassis is solid & I can get some weight on stuff, my concern about the excessive lateral play from the plastic rear suspension bushings proved to be more than mere nit-picking - while it's true that with the shock firmly bolted in the "wiggle" is minor... I can't help but wonder if it's not bound to get worse. Not only is this a bit of a hefty build & hopefully a touch faster than the mountain bike it came off of - it's not like I would ever consider lockin' up the rear wheel and skidding out or even tryin' to do a few donuts right? *innocent look*

Soo... why not use this waitin' around time I figure and fabbed up some brass replacement bushings. Not only should that snug up the pivot nicely, but a minor detail no one but me will ever notice is that now the front & rear suspensions match - the front A arms came with brass bushings stock lol This also gave me an excuse to play around with the lathe summore, a groovy tool I jus' don't need to use very often.

Using a chunk of old prop shaft for stock, I hadta turn it down to exactly the same ID & OD as the plastic bushings or the whole point would be defeated, catch is the bushings are a bit of a "press fit" and I worried that it'd come out too tight... but as it turns out it's fine. Runnin' out of time as usual, I got 'em all done save choppin' them apart and one last tricky bit - tooling the outer "washer" (actually all one piece), the bit that acts as a spacer between the stays and the frame pivot... but that's pretty simple and I outa have that done tomorrow. Fortunately if I do manage to bung that up somehow, I can jus' use washers... but that'd be cheesy lol



A lil earlier this week I noticed something interesting about perspective - I've had the taddy "together" as a mock-up about a million times... but always up on a workbench. It wasn't until I finally welded the key structural components together did I bother throwing it together and seein' how it stood on the ground. In my mind, the taddy was becoming progressively huge - the numbers all worked out, the wheelbase and ride height all seemed acceptable... but on the bench, it just seemed massive.

Settin' it in my "reserved VIP parking" spot at work all of the sudden it seemed tiny lol, not only am I defo gonna need one of those "dorky" orange flags and some bright lights all around - turns out it's only slightly longer than mine ol' Rollfast, plus the pedal boom ofc;

 

[silverbear]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Coming right along, Barely! Interesting seeing it with the Rollfast next to it. I imagine now you're back to riding the cruiser to work. Nice.
Yes, being visible is pretty important. I also don't like those orange plastic flags at all and on my trailer for the dog use an old metal fishing rod as the mast and an American flag as the eye catcher. These flags are for cars and are very inexpensive. You can also get them that size for states, Canada, athletic teams, etc. I've found the American flag does get noticed, which is what I wanted. Besides, it would be unpatriotic to run a geezer off into the ditch flying an American flag, right? You'd be fair game and a target for terrorists, however. Maybe a Swiss flag.
SB

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

hehe - I knew ifn I posted some brass bits ol' silver would pop up

Jus' jokin' around my friend, but yea - visibility is gonna be a problem. As a gearhead I'm also displeased by the flutter drag any sizable flag would create, somewhat at odds with some of the aerodynamic advantages of a recumbent... petty detail to be sure & not worth the safety consequences of runnin' w/o one - but annoying nonetheless as flutter is one of the most drastic examples of drag loss. I've toyed with the idea of metallic (shiny plastic) streamers instead, but I dunno if that actually reduces the drag significantly and/or would be visible enough... ah well, I'll sort that out when I get there lol

TBH, messin' around with makin' the brass bushings - while not unimportant, was pretty much "just busywork" as far as I was concerned, I've a looooong list of far more critical details to attend to... of which all must wait till I can get my grubby hands on that MIG (worst case, Saturday as our fab guy doesn't work weekends). However... I finished them yesterday and I'll tell ya what - I'm SO freakin' glad I decided to "waste" my time with such a "minor" detail, it's simply astounding how much of a difference they made! Even w/o the shock mounted there's absolutely no lateral play or twist whatsoever, the travel so smooth yet snug I cackled like a madman, way too impressed with jus' some lil brass chunks lol



Here's a pic of the front brass bushings (A arms are waitin' to be zotted), I didn't make them... I'll jus' guilty admit that it makes me giggle a bit that they match

 

[fasteddy]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

BarelyAwake, you've never had to say your sorry when you did something right, no matter how small {like brass bushings} since as my old English Grandmother would say, "The Devil is in the details", when I tried to short cut something.

I have, more that once, seen the Devil peeking around the corner watching so over time I've learned doing it right was smart. No, I didn't always do it but it would have been smart if I had. Are scars proof?

A truely fantastic build Sir and a pleasure to watch it come about.

Steve.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks Steve, after watchin' yer sidecar build come to fruition, I'm truly flattered - hopefully there weren't too many scars involved heh

Details are the devil lol and it goes both ways - while the brass bushings turned out to be a more than welcome addition, I feel I outa point out that those two lil dealies alone consumed about four hours - and that's not including setup time or huntin' around fer stuff, let alone thunkin' time... which ofc takes the longest of all heh

With those sorted, I moved on to a coupla other details while I wait my turn on the MIG. First & easiest were the ...rather odd motor mounts. In another life, the frame & it's mounts served to amuse children as a 49cc four wheeler, as an inexpensive toy it only had rear suspension - and a really weird one at that. Even if I could have kept it intact after the chop, drop & rake and extensive amputations preformed - I wouldn't have wanted to. For some reason the engineers decided it'd be a good idea to incorporate the motor mounts as the pivot point for the rear suspension, which means ofc that the engine itself moved up & down within the frame, rocking up & down counter to the suspension's travel...

I've tried & tried, but for the life of me I still can't figure why they thought this was a good idea. Granted, I'm no engineer - but all I can manage is reasons not to lol, unsuspended weight, increased frame size, fuel line & harness fatigue, not to mention pinch points fer the kiddie's toes, just to name a few... the one thing I s'pose it mighta helped with is eliminating the need for a chain idler... but it had one anyway so "pfft" goes that idea heh

Anyway, needless to say that madness met my friend, the cutoff wheel. The one advantage left over is now I could use it's "pivot" to position the engine within the frame exactly where I wanted it before welding it up solid (when I get access to the MIG ofc lol), while the travel is extremely limited now as a result of the chop & drop, here's a coupla pics;



That naturally didn't take much time at all, it was jus' a matter of cleaning up the mounts for welding, finding metric fasteners to bolt it all together and makin' sure I had 'nuff room left for the carby... oh yea, right! ...the carby... Now that's a tight squeeze lol, there's only about 1/16th on either side of it's housing between the upper frame rails... I could "buy" myself a lil more room if I removed it's cable actuated choke mechanism, a big plastic deal on it's side... but given where the carby is - I think I'm gonna need it heh

There's also the intake - which very handily was exactly the opposite of what I needed. The stock intake is a high rise 90° and naturally I need a low profile 90°... my first thought was to simply reverse it - yes, that's entirely way too easy a solution and I shoulda known better, yes - the flanges are completely different. It's also got a slight angle to it, also exactly opposite of what I could work with... so, meet bandsaw pesky intake.

About two hours later, it too is ready to weld - missing from the pics is alla dinky fiddling, shaving off a hair here and there to get the cuts flush - don't thank me for sparing ya, I'd be more than happy to bog yer bandwidth lol, but not only would they be truly insignificant - there is ofc a five pic limit per post hehe;



Oh right, I was ofc joking about takin' step-by-step pics of millimeters shaved off the intake - but should you wish, there are a couple-few more pics to be had here ifn yer bored or w/e: http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/Serenity151/tad/

 

[Cogswelln]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

After seeing this thing coming together i cant help but wonder what could you possibly have on your mind for next winter. i know it is still along way off, but with the amount of detial and thought process i cant imagine what you would do to keep u busy next winter

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Hopefully, if all goes well - modifying this one

TBH this build while somewhat complex (and this is what I tells meself when I get the occasional headache), is really not much different than simply building two custom MBs simultaneously - even minus a wheel no less... One a four stroker, one a 'lectric, 'cept I'll get to ride them both at the same time lol

When I do "finish" building it & take it out for the "testing phase" I've no doubt a whole buncha other details will make themselves known, twitchy or mushy steering, braking instabilities, ride height/suspension issues, ergonomics, and of course any number of the weirdnesses engines are known for... hopefully that'll all be straightforward and I'll get to play, vrooming around & ignoring the confounded looks of strangers

...but, even so - I'll not have touched either the four stroke or the electric drive - both of which individually have lots of modification potential, a seemingly infinite amount when combined together

Very little to none of which I've given more than a cursory thought too, a lil clicky research when I have a mo, or when I'm avoiding something I outa be doing heh. Aside from your typical "performance" upgrades like a high-flow but quiet exhaust for the ICE and LiFePO4s for the 'lectric - there's all kindsa stuff I wanna try, like "marrying" the two engine's charging systems, attempting to incorporate an "auto start" and/or combining the two throttles w/an override, converting the four stroke to run high/straight ethanol content fuel, perhaps even trying to incorporate a solar charging system, etc... and that's all dependent on the hy/tribrid's success - if it's unsatisfactory, I'll be either trying to resolve the issues or reconfiguring the taddy to be ICE only *shrug* no way to tell really this early in the game.

So... if ya consider the taddy two builds - I'm right back to my typical & plodding one build a year... it's the winter after next that has me scared