The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Sooo, I packed alla scrap metal in, on & around the poor Schwinn (the bags are gettin' a touch tattered these days lol) and trucked it off to work, where it sat as I impatiently waited for the day to be done & I could attend to more "important" things than my job... these days I wonder if the only reasons I go in at all are so I can buy more bike bits & use the groovy tools... good thing my boss doesn't read this thread right?

First I hadta shave off about 1/3" from the edges of the C stock as it's too wide, I coulda jus' hacked one up - but the inside isn't perfect 90s, it's angled slightly so that woulda made it asymmetrical so naturally I hadta trim all four edges. Fortunately we've a sweet metal cutting circular saw that makes short work of such things. Clamping a bit of scrap to the underside of the saw's base plate to act as a fence - I still managed to be 1/16" off on one of my cuts somehow, in a bit of a hurry and constantly interrupted by customers mistaking me for a shop flunky I didn't even notice & tacked it together that way.

I did notice it was a lil odd when I test fitted the pedal boom however & sure enough the bottom was wider than the top arrgh! As sometimes Murphy isn't quite so cruel as he could be - it was 1/16" oversized & as the saw blade's teeth are exactly 1/16" it was a simple matter of just makin' another cut, clamping & weldin' it back together! Yay for the lil things heh

It may not seem like much & it really isn't, but sometimes people wonder why custom made stuff costs so much - this silly lil pedal boom receiver is a great example of why. Granted, it's a "one off" & I made a mistake, but even though I'd done all of the planning and measuring already it still took a lil over two hours just to make those four (five) cuts and zot it w/the MIG... it's just amazing how time flies lol Sure, if it was set up for mass production with everythin' ready to go it wouldn't take nearly as long... but mass production isn't commonplace with "custom" stuff like this ofc.

Anyway, that's about all I could do yesterday in the shop, I'd made measurements for other cuts, but they could no longer be trusted as that deceptively simple procedure had gone squirrely on me, so back home I went to throw it back up on the trike & redo the markings. I really can't complain about having access to far nicer tools than I could possibly afford, but this back and forth from home to work jus' to double check does get a lil tiresome lol... particularly when I found out that the markings were still accurate, but better safe than sorry I figure.

Yea, now they've been triple checked heh, still that doesn't mean they're perfect... but I took the opportunity to experiment with the lighting hole pattern. the spacing is right, but the chalk circles are jus' an approximation as apparently my compass has wandered off to more exciting places and I hadta use a washer ta see what it looked like. Hopefully I'll get the chance to finish this up at work today *shrug*

 

[kipharley]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Sounds like you cut on the bad luck side of the sharpie mark not the good luck side!1/3" is that somewhere between .3125 and .3750? Kip.
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[kipharley]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Where did you get a metal cutting blade that's 1/16" ?,All the one's I've seen are 1/8" I'd like to get a thinner one!Kip.
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[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Sounds like you cut on the bad luck side of the sharpie mark not the good luck side!1/3" is that somewhere between .3125 and .3750? Kip.

You'd think - but as I was using a clamped guide I suspect there was a lil booger of metal jammed between the fence & the cut & dunno, that was "about" one third of an inch, TBH I don't remember what it was exactly & math intimidates me

Where did you get a metal cutting blade that's 1/16" ?,All the one's I've seen are 1/8" I'd like to get a thinner one!Kip.

We use the same blade on all the metal cutting saws here: Milwaukee 48-40-4515 and yer right actually, I checked it and it's actually 3/32" not 1/16" ...forgive my eyeball guesstamate, I'd used a ruler and it looked like 1/16"... but the specs say otherwise *shrug* I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can get heavy or fine kerf metal cutting blades same as ya can w/wood ones... mebbe... I never really thought about it bfore lol

I'm sure ya know this but I'm gonna throw it out there for those that may not - though they look similar, the metal cutting circular saw is not the same as a wood one, the metal one is a "slow" speed saw w/lower RPM, I dunno what would happen if ya tried metal cutting w/a high RPM wood circular saw... but I bet it'd get ugly in a hurry lol

 

[2door]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Geoff,
That metal cutting circular saw looks scary to me. Doesn't your shop have a bench mounted cut-off wheel. They use an abrasive wheel as opposed to a metal one with teeth. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200365192_200365192

I've used a metal cutting abrasive wheel mounted in a standard circular wheel to do top chops but it's always a little unnerving. I like the tool clamped down tight as well as the work. Just being an old fuddy-duddy, maybe.
Tom

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

It's actually a lil less scary than it looks, unlike many tools this one at least has the blade pointed away from you heh... the "trick" of it is ofc clamping the work down firmly & not forcing the tool. The problem with using a abrasive wheel cut-off saw like the one ya linked is I needed to make a long straight cut, longer than a cut-off saw can do & yes, we've got one... but it's not exactly bench mounted

TBH while the abrasive wheels work quite well, the metal cutting circular saw is a real beast, it rips through plate (up to 1" thick) like butter & leaves a very nice cut with very little heat & almost no sparks at all *shrug* but it is a bit of an expensive "specialty tool" & the hobbyist may find the abrasive wheels more versatile.

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thankee Blakenstein, always hopin' for a lil feedback as there's no sucha thang as too many ideas heh

I jus' gotta "worry about 1/16" fer a coupla reasons, it all adds up (16 1/16" errors = 1" off = DOOM blarg) - but mostly because of my margin of error - no matter how hard I try I'll always mess up a lil, if I try for "perfect" I'll get "good 'nuff" ifn I'm lucky heh

Trikes are wide and that is a bit pf a problem, particularly as we don't have much in the way of paved shoulders 'round these parts, which is one of the reasons I had my heart set on a fully suspended trike as doubtlessly I'll end up "ditch running" the right front wheel from time to time. The Lifan does seem a sweet lil power pack, if it goes even half as good as it looks I'll be psyched lol - but I gotta mention as it's roughly 11" wide, runnin' two of them side-by-side would be... cumbersome. However, if displacement limitations aren't a concern they come in a plethora of different sizes, 100cc & up are actually more common than the 49cc - including vertical motors which are often easier to incorporate into an upright bike/trike's frame *shrug*




I did actually get the pedal boom receiver "finished up" the day before, cut to length and with the lightening holes. I've no pics of that procedure because although I made sure to bring my camera - I very cleverly left the memory card in my laptop at home... so yer spared from a buncha inconsequential pics of that at least lol Never fear - I'll make up for it w/a buncha pics of the house cat er sumfin' heh

After bringing it home and doing some test fitting... I decided to take a chance and hack up the front A arm's mounting box. While things were lookin' pretty good, I was still about 3" wider than I was hoping for, compounded by the fact I've not made my spindles yet & they're gonna add a lil more to it's width. Pokin' at everythin' with my (not so) trusty tape measure, I noticed that the gaps from pedal boom receiver to the inside walls of the A arm's mounting box were 1 1/2" wide each... cut those out and bringing the sides together would not only get rid of that extra 3" overall, but result in a far stronger joining of receiver & front suspension... as the entire front end is easily replaced with commercially available parts including the mounting box I figured what did I have to lose? The A arm mounts would be easily made from scratch in any case should things go horridly wrong.

As it turned out I needn't have been concerned, it was a bit tricky at first simply because their welds & construction wasn't as accurate as it coulda been, not quite true & square it drove me a lil nuts tryin' to figure out why my alignment marks for the cuts weren't lining up, once I figured that out and compensated - making sure the A arm's mounting holes were parallel & level regardless of anything else, then it all came together easy as pie... better than "stock" in fact so I'm pretty happy w/it.

Everythin' is just tacked together and/or resting in place, but here's a coupla more pics;




As it stands the trike's overall dimensions are currently;

31" wide (contact patches), will be approximately 32"w after spindles.
4' 4" long (contact patches)
6 & 1/2" road clearance (fully unloaded suspension)
3' 2" tall (to top of helmet rest, again unloaded suspension)
7' overall length (a lil less actually as the pedal boom placement isn't set)
35" overall width (outside of hub to hub)

A bit larger than the ideal "racing trike" moments I was aiming for, it's a lot smaller than I feared it'd end up being, it's deviation mostly length I think it's prolly gonna be a pretty good handling taddy *crosses fingers*

 

[kipharley]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Hey,Barely.Looking GOOD!
I like the Lightening holes you put in the channel Iron!
I bet you shaved at least 1lb right there! Kip.
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[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I hope so Kip, I wanted to weigh it bfore & after but as I'm not a dealer & I'm unconcerned about my developing aerobelly* I don't have any scales available lol - but one of the reasons why it's all just tacked together is I think I'm gonna add a few more lightening holes to the top & underside of the boom receiver when I get the clamping mechanism sorted... but I must admit the lightening holes make me grin a bit, the dropout plates for the rear wheel have 'em too so it helps my horridly mismatched Frankenstein creation look a lil less the cob job it really is


*Recumbent Glossary of Terms and Definitions

 

[kipharley]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I used capital letters for "GOOD"! Kip.
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[silverbear]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Blakenstein asked, "Hey!!!! are you some kind of a millionare???? or what???? "
Not anymore, he isn't. Ha!
SB

 

[kipharley]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

They turn into a hole in the garage floor to throw money into real fast.Kip.
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[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Millionaire? Hardly - patience is what we've got here Take a $50 a week bike budget & add time *shrug* That's downright cheap if ya consider the fun factor - amusing myself for hours on end tryin' to make the pieces fit lol

Motors aside, it's not as costly a build as you might think with the front wheelset & seat costing the most at roughly $200 the seat another $200, it'd been less ifn I'd not been so lazy and built them myself, including the seat. The dual A arm front end was another $100 complete (minus ball joints & spindles), the brakes came to about another $100, the frame itself was a mere $25 and the "recycled" bike bits were all free ofc. So again, motors not included I've roughly $700 into this build - when I get the three air shocks it's prolly be just about $1000 even... while that sounds like a lot, not only could I have easily halved that cost by not taking shortcuts & building things myself (front end, seat & wheelset) - the nearest comparable fully-suspended trike I've been able to find is the Berserker, and that costs from five to eight thousand dollars depending on options... while I'd not be so egotistical as to think mine is remotely equal in quality, still... it puts things in perspective when ya consider a standard non-motorized, unsuspended trike is usually somewhere around $1500 for ...not much really other than an extra wheel & a comfy seat lol

I don't have a lot of cash it's true - I'm just very careful about where & how I spend it. As you may have noticed I spend quite a bit of time researching not the cheapest parts, but the best parts I can afford for the least, the thought being it'll cost less in the long run that way. I'll also happily buy something if it "costs" less than my labor to make it, that habit alone is responsible for easily 1/2 this project's expense.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not trying to say this is a low cost build, but I do think it's an economical one & there's a subtle difference there lol

 

[Saddletramp1200]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Hey, you got a receipt for them coffee cans? I put a coffee can in the shop and 2 days later it's gone. Man O Man what a sweet looking trike. Were working on some ourselves. But the 2 wheels are behind me. I am always so impressed to see the genius of other members
We are fooling around with air bags.

 

[discontinuuity]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Hi, just wondering what you're doing for suspension geometry. From your photos it looks like the spindles are straight up/down with zero castor, camber, ackerman, or rake. This might make the handling a little twitchy if you're not careful.

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Saddletramp - thems ain't cawfee cans, they're obviously highly technical fabrication jigs with every last aspect of their dimensions and support capabilities carefully considered *shakes fist*

lol, If ya saw the earlier build pics you'd have seen I was initially using four small cardboard boxes, combined with the plywood platform it gave me an exact 6" height - perfect for my setup. My industrious housemates decided they were gonna replace the dishwasher and in their haste, neglected to attach the drain pipe before testing - as it's directly above my project area it flooded everything, filling my toolbag and drenching my project... I was less than impressed.

Still, there was no lasting damage save for the boxes I was using to hold up the project, they got a bit squishy and started to sag. At first it was so slight I didn't notice - except many of the parts I had already figured out were no longer lining up for some reason, momentarily confounding me as I'd not considered water solubility during the construction phase heh - so now I've resorted to the fine, long standing tradition of usin' the coffee cans for everything, the only real difference is my unloaded ride height is now 6 1/4"

...airbags? ... Congrats man - ya jus' made my brain BSOD tryin' ta figure that one out heh




Good eyes discontinuuity & a good concern too! 'Cept there's one small detail ya missed - I've not made my spindles yet Like most other bits of this project, the front wheels are just resting in place using some random gocart spindles that don't even come close to fitting properly. Until I got the suspension's mechanical configuration sorted - making the proper spindles & figuring out the general steering geometry wasn't possible.

If yer interested, there's an entire chapter on the intricacies of trike steering geometry starting on page eleven here: 'Recumbent Trike Design'. Tho it's true that they're focusing mostly on the far more commonplace fixed kingpin design whereas my spindles will need to be something more like these from Blue Sky Design catalog here: http://www.blueskydsn.com/2009CATALOGUE.pdf;

TBH I'd cheat again and just buy them, sadly they're designed for 1/2” axles sets & 16” diameter wheels, as I'm using 20mm hubs the axles are way undersized & as my wheels are 20" the center point steering axis is off by about 2" ...given I'd hafta modify that as well as adapt them to ball joint mounting, there'd be little left for my $130 lol ...but they outa be pretty easy to replicate

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

*sigh*

I messed up I'd brought a buncha raw stock and chopped up handlebars inta work to make some of my steering components & although the general fabrication of the more critical aspects went ok - I done screwed up and tack welded the handlebar uprights on sideways (pointed out instead of forward).

It's not a huge problem ofc, I only tacked them in place so I can cut 'em off, redo the fishmouths & reweld, it's jus' a lil embarrassing is all lol - I've relearned a lesson I shoulda remembered from the Rollfast project... I gotta do alla fine prep at home where it's calm & quiet, where I don't feel rushed and most of all - I don't have idjits throwing things at me to try and get my attention whilst I'm using a side handle grinder *shakes fist* They were jus' tryin' to get me to stop makin' screamin' death metal noises 'cause they had gotten a phone call... still, as I value my fingers FAR more than their silly social life - I did give them a ... *cough* "stern talking to" regarding tool safety and personal space heh, I don't think it'll be a problem in the future.

Anyway, as ya can see in the following pics, I'm utilizing a preexisting cross member as the pivot point for my steering - I thought I was gonna hafta break out the lathe, but unlike my previous problems, this pipe I did in fact find another that had the same OD as it's ID, after grinding down the leftover bead on the inside. It's so snug & well fitting I hadta sand the paint off the pipe to get it to slide in, it outa work pretty well & be good & rugged - I jus' need ta make a coupla endcaps and a bolt that will reach all the way from one side to the other... or fine pitch "all thread" if I can find any *shrug* ...and redo the handlebar uprights of course.

It's experimental ofc, the theory is I'll have the two tie rods going straight forward to another pivot under the pedal boom receiver, then another two going out to the spindles. While some taddys have just two tie rods going from the handlebars directly to the spindles, I can't really do that method as I've the batteries in the way, if the lateral pivot is wide enough to clear the batteries, the tie rods would interrupt the wheel's turning radius. Even if it didn't I'm not sure about the viability of that method w/a fully suspended trike, it could potentially alter the alignment under compression... but I'm not really sure about that. However I do know that if I have the two spindle tie rods in parallel with the suspension's travel I'll not hafta worry about that at least heh, also having two tie rods with four arms per wheel (one on handlebar, two on center pivot, one on spindle) gives me greater potential steering sensitivity adjustment *shrug* ... we'll see anyway right?

Urm... yea... ignore the sideways handlebars, I'm fixing that AWS heh

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Better yet even, I've access to a lathe

TBH I'm not very good w/it & really don't have much call to use it other than makin' the oddball fastener from time to time, like these weird shouldered bolts for my old Rollfast's springer fork (the shiny new ones on the right ofc);



Still, it's great havin' it around. I've thought about gettin' a lil benchtop one - but I really don't use 'em enough to justify buyin' one *shrug*

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Well, much as it drove me nutz I hadta take a lil break from the taddy... not that I wanted to ofc, but simply bcause I was a twit and as a result my left thumb was/is kinda useless heh, I tried to biff a snowbank with my Schwinn, forgetting here in Maine - the snowbanks biff you O.O

Despite a rather spectacular handstand & not-so-graceful flip o'er the bars, the bike and I are pretty much unscathed save for a sprained thumb & me pride heh... but it's interesting how much I've come to depend on that thumb, simply amazing how little I can accomplish w/o it grrr...

Still, I've made a lil progress - I think I've gotten the handlebars sorted and I've gotten a start on the cross linkage, taking the spacing from an existing unit from a four-wheeler for the outers, I've added lateral bars for the inner. I'll be drilling a vertical hole through the pedal boom receiver & using a chunk of tubing for a sleeve, allowing the inner shaft to pass through it w/a fastener on the top to allow disassembly - the only real trick of it is insuring the shaft is actually vertical and not angled w/the pedal boom receiver...

I've obviously not dressed up the plate yet, nor drilled for the inner tie rod ends, those I wanna save till I get it test fitted to insure proper placement, that they won't jam, lock or hit anything ofc

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

NP Blakenstein, it was meant to be lolful & yea - I'm psyched it was jus' my thumb & not even a break at that

As for teh monies... I've been tryin' real hard to not think about that so much heh, other than shopping around & researching the most economical purchases ofc. However a ballpark estimate puts the total expenditure so far at roughly $1700 ($2g after shocks & odds & ends) - there's been no "modifications" to the motors as of yet, that'll come later, after the build is functional and I'm attending to "refinements". While that sounds like a lot of cash - in a way it isn't as what w/the twin motors, if ya add just another wheel I'm building two motorized bicycles simultaneously for about $850 each *shrug* Not bad really considering the components used.

As for "That bike is really gonna move" I gotta point out that actually - it's not built for top speed... in fact I'll be quite happy if it's got even close to the same top speed as my HT builds. Generally speaking the four strokes aren't as competitive in raw speed alone as their two stroke brethren & the electric hub motor I'm using is reported to pooch out in the high twenties - at which point it becomes dead weight at best, a significant drag if I'm using it's regenerative charge features. The only advantage I've got in regards to top speed is the recumbent aspect, the reduction of frontal area lessening the wind resistance.

What I'm trying to achieve with this "tribrid" is quiet comfort with a combination of range/efficiency and improved acceleration - both of which are somewhat questionable what with the added weight & mechanical drag. The advantage of experimenting with an electric hub is should the results be less than satisfying I can always just put the hub on another bike - but I'm really hoping it'll not come to that.

Overall this build is mostly for the sheer experimentation, an excuse to tinker w/both a four stroke and an electric drive and a recumbent tadpole configuration. Were it for speed, I coulda saved myself quite a bit of time & money and gone with a Morini two stroke on a lightweight unsuspended taddy, which would make for a sick machine actually & I kinda hope someone will build one lol... my "best case scenario" is something that uses little fuel for my short commute, offering comfort & reliability for the long hauls (daydreamin' of crosscountry trips & camping adventures) - but really more than anything else, just the fun & education of tryin' ta make all the pieces fit