The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike

[Dan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

lol BA. (year after next)

"click research" Cool phrase/thunk.

Wanted to ask you or some one with an ewheel. If as reported, the electric has great low end. Could, on a duel powered MB, be geared higher and use the electric as the low end? I have been thinking about this since you posted this thread. I know it is a broad question. Ya got me thinking DIY car. Registered and legal

 

[corgi1]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Hane you thought about the sway bar on the front yet to keep it level?

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

lol BA. (year after next)

"click research" Cool phrase/thunk.

Wanted to ask you or some one with an ewheel. If as reported, the electric has great low end. Could, on a duel powered MB, be geared higher and use the electric as the low end? I have been thinking about this since you posted this thread. I know it is a broad question. Ya got me thinking DIY car. Registered and legal

What yer suggesting isn't dissimilar to what I'm experimenting with, the main difference being I'm not focusing on top speed but acceleration. Electric engines are known for "instant torque", unlike internal combustion engines which have a gradual buildup as the RPMs increase. Keeping the ICE's gearing the same as if there were no electric assist I hope to reduce my "0-30mph" time and/or improve fuel mileage with no perceivable effect on top speed by using the strong points of each motor to complement the other.

The hinky bit with "gearing the ICE higher" is - if the ICE had the power to be geared that high, you'd not need the electric to assist the low end anyway - you'd just need a better/more appropriate gear range. There's also the classic "gears don't give you more top speed, they get ya there faster" (if the finals are the same ofc). You could use the electric as a high speed boost, when the ICE is running out of oomph and can no longer overcome wind resistance/drag no matter the gear ratio - but most nongeared electric hubs have a top speed either equal to or less than a quality 49cc internal combustion engine (yes, that's a broad generalization, don't kill me eguys lol).

As a very rough example - if the top sustainable speed of my ICE is 30mph & the top speed of my 48v 1000w ehub is 30mph - my top speed using both should still be about 30, they're pooching out at the same time - I'll jus' get there faster & uphill won't have as much of an effect.

Where it gets... headache inducing is the added weight and drag variables... I'll get back to ya on that when I finish the taddy lol

Hane you thought about the sway bar on the front yet to keep it level?

Very interesting question corgi - and you've caught me all unprepared heh, I've no pics of this AND haven't been able to establish if it's a pro or a con yet as I've not been able to ride it... I will get some pics asap tho.

One of the interesting things about a symmetrical dual A arm front suspension assembly on a tadpole trike is if you lean the center section & rear wheel, the front wheels lean the same amount while maintaining contact with the ground (static tests & w/o shocks attached). Theoretically this could complement handling characteristics, as you lean your body weight into a turn it could/should help the front wheels establish a beneficial camber, they too should also lean into the turn.

Lacking pics, here's my admittedly lame attempt at ascii "art" heh;

\=\=\ left lean

|=|=| straight

/=/=/ right lean

Anti-sway bars are used to counteract body roll, the tendency for the chassis to lean towards the outside of a turn and reducing the traction of the inside wheels & overly compressing the outside suspension components - while highly beneficial, the only "body" on this taddy is mine, and the taddy is still very much a leaning vehicle, needing me to lean into the turn to help with stability (wheel lift instead of sway).

Do I have enough weight to "lean" the vehicle enough to effect the front wheels at any speed?
How much do the shocks counteract this?
Is it something I can assist by lowering the air pressure in my front shocks, or will that just make it mushy and bottom out?
Will I still have adverse "body roll" despite the fact I'm leaning into the turn?

I've no idea lol & there's just not enough data on fully suspended tadpole trikes, all attempts at "clicky research" have pretty much failed... with this too I'll jus' hafta "get back to ya on that when I finish the taddy lol"


I would like to say that both of these questions, the benefits of a hybrid system and the mysteries of a fully suspended trike are pretty much exactly why I'm tryin' to build one - they're good questions lol and I wanna know too

 

[Dan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Fantastic and thank you. I posed the question poorly but you've answered it. My main concern was acceleration with the pace of traffic from a stop sign/light.

Inspired by your build, gonna try a trike where the rider is more standing then sitting with feet on a platform that is the rear section. Connected on sort of pivoting Gimbals so leaning in to a turn, the rear stays in contact with the ground and front angles into with the the weight of the rider. With no pedals, would not work with out a starting line "umph-er" 3 wheels here and up to 5HP, legal. So would make an awesome yr round commuter. Honestly, I want a protective roll cage and a radio. Solar regeneration for function and goof factor.

would that make this "click/type research"?

Thanks and sorry for the ramble.

 

[corgi1]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I think the tad will respond like car suspention thats just a waiting question as you said,,,waiting and learning

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Inspired by your build, gonna try a trike where the rider is more standing then sitting with feet on a platform that is the rear section. Connected on sort of pivoting Gimbals so leaning in to a turn, the rear stays in contact with the ground and front angles into with the the weight of the rider. With no pedals, would not work with out a starting line "umph-er" 3 wheels here and up to 5HP, legal. So would make an awesome yr round commuter. Honestly, I want a protective roll cage and a radio. Solar regeneration for function and goof factor.

would that make this "click/type research"?

Thanks and sorry for the ramble.

No worries Dan, as I've said bfore - I don't mind the "rambling" as it's all about bik... erm... trikes as the case may be and tangents & questions lead me to answers I didn't know I had questions about yet Any learnin' is good learnin' I figures.

Anyhoo - it's no doubt completely unlike what yer talkin' about... but... speakin' of "leaners" I stumbled over this delta waaay early in my still daydreamin' phase and tried till my ears bled to figure out how to contort it into what I wanted - and failed miserably lol, mebbe it'll be of some interest *shrug* It'd be a smokin' dual drive etrike eh?

Jetrike.Com - FWD Tilting Recumbent Trike

Still, it's really nifty particularly as it's "open source" w/all free access, jus' sharing plans & dreams - here's the link to a bunch of his detailed plans in .pdf format: Jetrike.Com - Download Plans and I really like this page of all kindsa other designs inc. links to their patent renderings: Jetrike.Com - Prior Art & his "fundamentals" page is purty ossum: Jetrike.Com - Theory ...and last but not least, I really like his straightforward honesty - if there's a problem he's quick to point it out, like pedal induced steering issues with his front wheel drive design

 

[Cogswelln]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

after doing a little research on my own it does look quite possible to make a leaning recumbent with two front wheels. having the rear wheel being powered by motor of choise. the whole middle should tilt with the rear wheel while the front suspension does its thing. granted i think i may have just figured out what my next project may be. i guess its time for me to start looking for what parts i already have and start looking for other parts. now that i have rambled a bit. good work with all the other types of plans that u have found. you research tends to yeild great results.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks Cog - I outa point out one thing tho jus' to be sure... to the best of my knowledge ALL "leaning" three wheel designs are at least somewhat experimental - instabilities are commonplace, so... be willing to shrug it off if ya hafta - the cash, the time, the project, the blood - w/e hurts worst lol

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

>.< doh...

Great, here I had gone and decided to reassemble the front end assembly to do some suspension & caliper mount tinkerin' and did I remember to take pics of the wheel lean? NOOooo - ofc not, I was way too preoccupied & playing around with my new toy, Planet Bike ShockMate Hi/Low Pressure Shock Pump.

I'll get to it lol, sorry 'bout that.

As it turns out the fab shop has been right-out crazy, the sales manager runnin' around in circles & heckling the flunkies, grabbin' everything not bolted down to go off to some trade show. Meanwhile we've gotten huge shipments of jus' about everythin' including SAE DOM roll cage tubing in various sizes - somethin' we've not had before & decidedly interestin' fer me... for some reason lol, if a lil late for this project. NONE of this helped my poor friend finish up the stuff he's got to weld & while I could have snuck off with the MIG... I needed his workbench too & that currently has quite a few hunnert pounds of scrap steel in various stages of zot all over it...

So, being the helpful type - I hid in the corner and played around with my taddy's suspension geometry & started fabbin' up the front caliper mounts heh

I was a bit concerned when I first got the Rock Shox 'Monarchs' mounted up - the fronts seemed ok, but the rear one was awful easy to compress. Worrying that I'd overlooked something in the leverage & travel estimates, I hoped that it was jus' low on pressure - and it was lol, having only 60psi of the maximum 275psi possible: Monarch User Manual. While this itself is some small cause for concern as the Monarchs had suffered a brief recall when they first came out for leaky schrader valves, not only are the rebuild kits for the entire shock inexpensive - we're all familiar with how easy schrader valves are to deal with. Turns out it's a moot point in any case as it's holding pressure fine *shrug*

Technically... I prolly outa not have done this as the front A arms are still only jus' tacked together & it coulda ended up badly with me on the floor w/busted up bits o'trike pokin' outa awkward places... but I couldn't help meself and decided to sit very carefully on the taddy to check suspension sag, travel and overall moments. I didn't have the seat w/me naturally and it's... a bit uncomfortable heh, but I learned to my great relief that all of my shock mount locations save one are jus' where they need to be - and that one that isn't is the only one still jus' tack welded, the rearmost mount on the stays. w/a 3:1 ratio I've a 3/4" drop for 1/4" shock compression & it drops jus' that much w/a squishy 175psi (25psi less than reco for my body weight [not inc engine/batts], 100psi less than max) Leverage Ratio Reference Chart - sooo, by lowering the rearmost mount by 1/4" I'll "perk" up the rear of the trike, allowing it to settle in "perfectly" parallel with the ground under loaded conditions.... prolly lol... tho it outa be fine as I've given myself quite a bit of "wiggle room" w/low air pressure, doubtlessly I'll run it quite a bit firmer than that.

Makin' the front caliper mounts wasn't so easy as they're both "lefts" - they make right and left calipers ofc, but it's seems they're roughly four times the cost for the same capabilities - so I decided to do what other DIYers have done & used two lefties, which ofc makes the mounting... downright odd. Ah well, all DIY projects are a compromise between time and money & I've a heck of a lot more the former then the latter lol, and as I'm downright stubborn about havin' all of the calipers be the same (replacement parts/pads) - to "upgrade" to a model that offers a rightie, yet only has the same braking ability AND getting no less than three of them @ 4x the price jus' wasn't gonna happen.

So now I've got some weird, asymmetrical elephant ear lookin' caliper mounts fabbed up & ready to zot... I can't for the life of me decide ifn' some lighting holes will help them look better or worse, or if it's somethin' anyone other'n me will even ever notice heh, I s'pose the important thing is that they line up & work right *crosses fingers*

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

heh this time I remembered to take some pics of the lean effect - while I'm not attempting to incorporate this into my current build, it's still got interesting potential. With the upper shock mounts fixed in place it's impossible for it t lean at all/more than a degree or two as the shock on the outside would hafta hyper-extend & the extension travel on these is so "limited" that it's not an option.

However... mine brain keeps mumbling that if the upper shock mounts were in a laterally sliding mount, one that couldn't move up or down but allowed an inch or so of sideways movement to the right & left... mebbe cross-linked to remain horizontal/rocker... that the shocks might both perform normally as well as allowing the rider to lean the taddy into turns... mebbe... sorta... I really have no idea heh TBH I'm not really doing any more w/it other than observing an interesting effect as I take apart the front end for the thousandth time to tinker, I may experiment w/this phenomenon at some point, but not this year - I got plenty 'nuff other stuff to figure out lol



Speakin' of which, I've got the front caliper mounts finaled & ready to zot, once that's done it really outa be a matter of rounding over the edges & dressin' them up a bit and finally at long last the spindles will be finished. The ball joints are irritating the heck outa me tho - the joints themselves are sweet - perhaps even a touch overkill for this, but their ring-clip retainers, the bit that holds 'em in place in the A arm - those... well, there's no other way to say it - they just suck.

Not only are the clips frustrating to install and remove (they're flush so the ring clip pliers slip & scratch), they're sloppy. Granted, it's only like 1/32nd or so of slop due to the clips being a hair skinner than the slot they settle in - but that 1/16th per side allows for a degree or so of camber "wiggle" and that's irritating as heck as other than that everythin' else is snug and dialed in. I could I s'pose make shims for them & that'd be easy 'nuff, but I thought I had seen threaded ball joints as an upgrade/replacement option... but now I can't seem to find 'em and ofc I didn't think to bookmark the site *sigh* I'm defo gonna keep lookin' tho - while not really a huge deal, it still bugs the heck outa me lol



Preppin' the taddy, settin' it up so the intake manifold can be tack welded with the carby exactly where I need it - I noticed that my only available workspace mighta been a lil more stout than needed, a 1" thick slab of steel on a forklift outa insure that I don't hafta worry about my "workbench" collapsing under the "extreme" weight of my project heh, a handy table indeed - it's even portable!;

 

[Cogswelln]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

im not 100% on this but im pretty sure that there are atvs with threaded bal joints a possible place that could help ya is trisports in topsham. l

 

[corgi1]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I saw a side mount push trailer hitch on here awhile back that used a large bolt and nut a free moving up-down yet held straight in line w/the bike wheel positive flexable hitch.
(it was mounted beside the rear wh.,using a scooter wheel)
I had a '59 rambler that had a screw togeather ball joint,,these could be fachioned form large bolts and nuts(turning on large threads),,,The ball joints would bind I would think in tight leans ,but the spindle could have the tilt factor built in as a pivot bolt top and bottom added to theinside back of the spindle(front to back pivot)and the steering part of the spindle would operate independent of the pivot bolts ,,I think this design was used on my 1955 plymouth front end,maybe it was the '49,(they may have been king-pin steering w/that set-up)

 

[corgi1]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

the shock top mount bar needs to be mounted as part of the lower side a-arm center mountplate, and the upper a-arms and rear tilting part of the trike needs to move as a self-contained unitwith the pivot point from the center of the lower a-arm plate(this is the simple one)
There is, somewhere, some drawings of a tilt trike that incorperates a lot more complex design,I did not find it on your thread and I am on another computer and it doesn't have my stored things in favorites for the site

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

im not 100% on this but im pretty sure that there are atvs with threaded bal joints a possible place that could help ya is trisports in topsham.

Yer right, lol - I completely forgot about that place Cog, thanks for the tip!

the shock top mount bar needs to be mounted as part of the lower side a-arm center mountplate, and the upper a-arms and rear tilting part of the trike needs to move as a self-contained unitwith the pivot point from the center of the lower a-arm plate(this is the simple one)
There is, somewhere, some drawings of a tilt trike that incorperates a lot more complex design,I did not find it on your thread and I am on another computer and it doesn't have my stored things in favorites for the site

Defo! I've seen a couple-few designs it this point... but I scratched the idea (for now) due to the added complexity, unknown/unproven stability issues and ofc - the relative difficulty of the other experimentation I've got goin' on w/this build... teetering on the edge of takin' on too much at once I've decided to shelve that and a few other things for later adventures, after I determine whether or not this taddy o'mine is even an effective application of the fully suspended recumbent tri/hybrid concept...

I imagine I'm in fer a revelation or two as it is when I finally get a chance to try and ride the thing lol

Yeppers, at long last the entire front suspension assembly, spindles & brake mounts are FINISHED w00t!!! Fully welded up it's "finaled" save for minor cosmetic work which will be the last step. As I'm planning on sandblasting all of the steel components, such nit-picky details will hafta wait till after that ofc - the paint that's on it currently is simply to stave off rust (and to highlight imperfections), I hope to have the taddy powdercoated by a local shop when all's done & said.

Now that I've managed to get that out of the way I can move on to other things, tack welding the intake manifold has allowed me to establish the motor's position & tack weld the motor mounts as well... to say it's a bit of a tight squeeze may be an understatement lol, fortunately I remembered to shim to account for gasket thicknesses - but as the flanges are so thick and it's the remote choke actuator that's causing all the ruckus I've a bit more "wiggle room" than how it appears in the pics, I can shave/shim the flanges if needed & even reroute the choke's cable mount if it seems to be a problem later. For now - it appears jus' fine w/the only "issue" being that in order to remove the carb and/or the engine from the taddy, I need to pull it by removing the manifold from the intake instead of jus' the carby... but I knew that was gonna be the case ever since I did the frame *shrug*

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I jus' got it back home again after finishing up the last batch of welding tasks for this round, set the seat & stuff on it sos I could set on it for the first time ...aaand I'm overjoyed to report that my wild guestimates, daydreams, and indecipherable doodles that I like to call "math" have actually resulted in success!!! Everything is where it needs to be! ...not quite sure how that happened, but hey - I'll take it lol

I also realized something that should have occurred to me long ago - it my be comfy & fits like a glove (it outa, I made it fer me heh)... but sitting there w/hands on the controls jus' about a foot off the ground I did finally notice that this thing is gonna be terrifying to ride O.O I can't wait heh

Now I've gotta figure out about a gazillion mounts & whatnot... but here's a coupla updated pics;

 

[Cogswelln]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

damn that thing is looking good. def cant wait to see it roll on down the road

 

[LS614]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

That is looking superbly cool! How close are you to a test ride?

 

[silverbear]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Yeah that is going to be some ride, all right. That close to the ground the sensation of speed will be scary awesome. That trike is going to make the rounds on the internet for sure so get used to the idea of well deserved celebrity.
Figure out anything yet for visibility to motorists? I was just picturing a kind of beany helmet with a propeller on top that spins around as you speed along.. each blade could have it's own LED light and the shaft could be connected to a generator so it would get brighter the faster you went. This would be highly visible, especially at night and also give motorists notice the rider may be nuts. Pictures, please.
SB

 

[Dan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Wow, looks awesome. Am just curious why you chose powder coating over spray? Really does look great

"...also give motorists notice the rider may be nuts"

LOL, the point does have some merit.

 

[LS614]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Powdercoat is more durable than spray, and costs about the same once all is said and done