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Cogswelln

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Dec 6, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

The only thing missing from your line up is a delta trike hint hint lol
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Jeezum Cog, I gotta finish this 'un first b'fore I think 'bout another lol - tho TBH I did consider this delta first: Jetrike.Com - FWD Tilting Recumbent Trike ...but ran into so many technical issues w/motorizing I gave up and went w/a taddy *shrug* Too many potential toys & jus' not enough time :p

Spakin' of toys & time - mine batteries are on their way w00t!

Class: Express Mail International®
Status: Foreign International Dispatch

Your item left SHANGHAI EMS, CHINA PEOPLES REP on April 26, 2011
...in the meantime I've brought the taddy back to my workplace to play w/the welder a bit more, jus' touching up some details so boring even I didn't bother w/pics heh - but I've learned that this thing is going to be... somewhat interesting to have in the public view, every time a customer sees it the reaction is... well... profound enough that while (usually) complementary, I considered hiding it away in a back room as to not distract so much from the things we're actually supposed to be doing, like our jobs lol

Oddly, the manager said "no, leave it there man" as we are actually a fabrication shop too, I guess it's a good conversation piece heh :oops:
 
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BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Interestingly, despite being shipped all the way from China, my spiffy new batteries arrived @ 12:30pm April 29th, only taking three days to get here o_O A lil odd given how long I've waited for a domestic delivery before lol

*shrug* This caught me completely by surprise, anticipating a much longer wait I hadn't even bothered to check it's status before bailing out of work early to tinker on the taddy in the shop - little did I know my new toys were waiting for me not thirty feet away when I decided to call it a day and go home heh

No worries tho, I don't mind pleasant surprises like this 'un obv, and there was more! The packaging was very thorough as to make sure nothing was even pinched even a lil during shipment, the "free" charger a much better lil unit than I was expecting but more importantly - all of the batteries' visible construction seems to have been done with extreme care and attention to detail w/all wires shrink wrapped, loomed & quality connectors sealed w/a waterproofing agent. While I'm obv not going to cut open the packs to look, if even half the attention was paid to the internal connections as the externals I'll be more than happy lol

Even better yet, the pack's physical size is smaller than originally estimated when I contacted Li Ping to have "customized" packs made, they're only 4x3x11" when I was expecting 4&1/2x4x12"! They musta tried a lil harder to make them as small as possible due to my concerns in our correspondence with another pleasant surprise being that they only charged me an additional $10 to split one of these 48V 15AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack into twin packs w/all the additional labor, wiring & connectors!

While the taddy is still a long way from completion, I'm psyched to say the least - I do think investing in these LiFePO4s is going to make a significant difference, vastly improving my chances of success w/this "tribrid" project with a much greater reserve & far less weight - the packs total poundage (including packaging lol) is jus' a hair over 16lbs.

Here's a couple few pics, you'll notice in the second to last one there's a critical component missing heh, I had to abandon the taddy at work not to be seen again till Monday *sigh* w/the last pic showing where the packs will go when I get a chance to make the removable mount trays (blue shaded area, not to scale);



 

LS614

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Dec 22, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

My goodness, all I can really say to you at this point Barely is that I hope I can have the talent and the money to do stuff like this someday! Good work! keep us tuned in on anything new happening with this trike. I think you should name her, but that's just me :D
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks LS614, I think ya have what it takes ifn ya wanna :)

I honestly don't think something like this requires talent so much as patience & a willingness to experiment - after all, I've not invented anything, the entire build is just a conglomeration of preexisting tech and ideas all stuck together into one... it's far more research than anythin' else - which is why I try to include any and all links on the off chance someone else wants to try somethin' like this, or if they're a touch more sane - an aspect of the build lol

As for the monies... yea... I'll freely admit this one has cost a bit more than I initially expected - but that's the way of toys isn't it? It woulda been far more "cost effective" to stick with only one of the two different engines & for all I know the tri/hybrid aspect may still not work out to be worth the investment... but then again I'm doin' it for the lols more than anythin' else and those I'm defo gettin' my penny's worth heh I've a buncha ways to rationalize the expenditure ofc, I've set myself a $50 a week bike budget no more, no less & at that rate it's relatively painless ('cept the whole "patience" thing lol) & as I've given up cars for bikes means it's really had no impact on the budget what with the ongoing expenses of such... Then there's the fact that just a fully suspended taddy costs anywhere from 4000 to 8000 bucks if ya jus' wanna buy one... which in all honesty is a bit much in my opinion. While I'm defo not one to discount the labor involved in building something like this, the fact remains that there's a significant markup on recumbents for no apparent reason other than the fact they're recumbents o_O *shrug* Good thing there's a plethora of DIY plans & such right?

*shrug* yea, they're "excuses" fer an obv addiction heh


As for "anything new" I've not much right at the moment as I hadta abandon the taddy at work over the weekend, I did charge up the new battery packs & the BMS's flashy lights may have unduly impressed me with their... well, flashiness lol - so much so I hadta take a lil vid of them doing their thing & am currently tryin' to figure out how to incorporate a small window into the battery cases sos I can peep at them... not that I need to ofc, but again - jus' for the lols

Click the pic to prove that yes, you too may be a geek :D Each brief flash is a cell being checked, a longer light is that cell being charged/discharged by the others to maintain balance (all internal, charger is no longer plugged in);


& as for a name for the taddy - well, I've a bunch of them I sometimes use depending on how the project is goin' & not a dang one of them is suitable for all ages, I'd hafta ban myself should I type them here :p
 
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BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Well, now that the taddy is back home again I've done some preliminary test fitting of the twin LiFePO4 packs & got a rough idea of what's needed for their support trays... I think I'm gonna slap together just the lower half of the boxes out of thin (1/8"? less? I don't remember what we've got lol) diamond plate aluminum ta see how things work out.

Hopefully they'll be adequate, with 1/4 inch "extra" room on all sides I should be able to add a rubber mat to the floor of the tray to assist drainage, prevent movement & chafe & to allow for the room needed for the wiring. I'll need to make covers for the batteries themselves ofc, but diamond plate is obv way overkill for such, aluminum or not lol

Now that I have the batteries & know their actual size & weight, I've a pretty good idea what will be needed for the "easily" removable trays' support structure - I'm thinking 1" or 3/4" chunks of box stock welded to the 1" steel angle I used for the boom supports & one each to the upper frame rails - drilling a bolt/pin hole in each I should be able to use them like the 'Reese' style trailer hitch receiver...

Well... that's the theory anyway heh, we'll see how that works out after I get the tray bottoms made :D

 

LS614

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Dec 22, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

very cool! So will the taddy recharge the batts in gas or pedal mode?
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Theoretically yes... to an extent ofc, it's... a bit complex & much is conditional with the hazard of "diminishing returns" always looming lol

The electric hub is designed with true adjustable regenerative braking & is one of the reasons I went with the "Magic Pie" instead of a less expensive and/or better performance electric motor, utilizing this feature every time I hit the brakes some amount of charge is replenished - yet ofc this amount is minuscule compared to the draw during acceleration regardless of how I have it set (100% is reported to cause wheel lockup on some two wheel bikes heh), it serves mostly to prolong ride time a bit, but not actually "recharge" the banks as obv braking time is limited.

I could adjust the brakes and/or have a bypass switch as to engage the regenerative feature while operating the ICE/pedaling & thus have a constant trickle charge... the problem with that is I would expend more energy than would be gained, resulting in a significant reduction of fuel efficiency and/or extremely strenuous pedaling as ofc it's very much like the brakes are dragging...

So the brake regen feature I'm going to leave as is, engaging only when I hit the brakes. It may only be a small amount recovered, but every bit counts & with brake regen there's no diminishing return hazard, you're just recovering energy otherwise lost to heat & friction while trying to stop.

Still, if I don't have an "in flight" means of replenishing the banks I could very well end up hauling around the dead weight of both depleted batteries and the electric engine itself... depending on duration & frequency of use ofc, but if I don't use the electrics in an effort to conserve power - then I'm still hauling dead weight o_O bit of a catch 22 lol

Soo... I've looked into "marrying" the systems as much as possible, the ICE has a full electrical system (or will have when I buy summore toys & stuff heh), not just an electric starter - but a charging system of it's own with a regulator/rectifier etc. As I've no interest in running a separate 12v DC SLA just for the ICE (weight and redundant silliness) I'll be investing in a 48v to 12v converter to run the lighting, starter and other goodies. The trick of it is using the ICE's charging system to help maintain/recharge the LiFePO4 packs... which is completely feasible if a touch scary and confusing for an en00b like mineself :oops: Fortunately there's a plenitude of folks FAR more knowledgeable than I that are more than willing to lend their experience - I've cheated and asked for help a coupla places, tribrid-tadpole as an example.

Thing is... there's no "free ride" no matter what, the additional strain put on the ICE has to be made up somewhere and increased fuel consumption is it's only option. Will the draw exceed gain? Will I end up using more fuel with this tribrid system due to charging and the additional weight & drag associated with the electrics? Will the electric assist during acceleration reduce the ICE's fuel consumption enough to warrant using it - or will it just help performance, like a "electric supercharger"? Will it even help with that enough to be worth the weight & bother?

I've absolutely no idea TBH & won't know till I try the thing heh

Still, no matter what the outcome - for me, it's "worth it" even just for the lols of experimenting. Even if the electric aspect turns out to be a washout, I can easily transfer the hub & LiFePO4 packs to any 26" bike & run the taddy as a hybrid, ICE & pedal only *shrug* It's one of the reasons I'm trying to have the battery trays as easily removable as possible, I might find it was a waste of time to try a "tribrid", I may wish to run w/o them for lessened weight (say rugged/wet trails or w/e), and ofc I'll need to be able to quickly & easily remove them and the electric hub for testing purposes... I've left the rim brake bosses on my rear stays for that reason as well - I've a rear disk brake on the hub ofc, but a replacement wheel may or may not have a compatible setup so even w/that I'm hedging my bets lol

...yea, I might have commitment issues too :p
 

BarelyAWake

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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

...and, speaking of "washouts" I didn't have a great day yesterday lol - I shoulda known better but I s'pose I wasn't thinking it through very well >.<

I wanted to use 1/8th inch aluminum diamond plate for the bottom & sides of battery trays, figuring I'd try and use the hydraulic brake at work to make two 90° bends... I knew full well the whole point of diamond plate is to resist bending and I may well end up with fractures... but I figured I'd give it a shot & see what happens...

Yep, sure 'nuff it resulted in tiny fracturing, little hairline cracks next to the "diamonds" - but they were so small as to be hardly noticeable and would in no way compromise the structural integrity needed for this purpose... the obvious problem I completely failed to anticipate, so obvious in fact it's freakin' embarrassing in hindsight is the fact that of course the hydraulic press squashed all the pretty lil diamonds, completely defeating the point as the only reason I was bothering w/it is an attempt at aesthetics, I need to use aluminum to reduce weight, it's a bear to try and keep painted & as I don't much like just shiny for the sake of shiny, figured it'd be an aright compromise...

*shrug* ah well, live & learn lol - moving right along I grabbed some plain ol' 1/8" aluminum plate to chop up and bend... only to find ALL of the metal cutting blades at work were completely smoked and replacements back ordered blarg. Not to be daunted by such, I went ahead & chopped 'em up anyway - more "melting" my way through the plate than actually cutting it, taking a ridiculous amount of time & generating not only a gawdawful amount of noise & heat, but ofc sloppy, inaccurate cuts with gobs of galled aluminum all along the edges...

Yea... w/e I figured, gotta work w/whatcha got lol & just cut "heavy", leaving at least 1/16" to allow for cleanup when I got the chunks home *shrug* Even so, I think they'll work out ok - defo good 'nuff for some test fitting anyway. A lil finagling later & it's lookin' pretty good, I'm bringing them back in today to trim 'em a bit (tops are too tall) and hopefully make the side plates, mebbe even fiddle w/the supports - depends on how things go lol ;)

 
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LS614

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Dec 22, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks for the info Barely. Now I understand better what you are doing. I thought about the electric output on the engine after the fact and was like wait..... So yeah, if you can get info on that, it may work (inverter?) I know NOTHING about electrical, I let my dad do that whenever I build something because he got his degree as an electrical engineer from Cornell,lol. Anyhoo, regen braking seems neat if not somewhat impractical. Keep us informed, as always, on what you are doing! Peace
-LS
 

moonshiner

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Apr 23, 2011
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Great recumbent build , very nice indeed , can't wait to see it roll.

Keith
 

Tmoney

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Apr 28, 2011
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Cool idea for a motor bicycle. I would have never thought that someone could build something like this! You got some serous mechanical talent BarelyAWake.
 

Cogswelln

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Dec 6, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Any updates on the build? batteries looking good, what is the weight per batt?
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks moonshiner & Tmoney, it's gettin' there. Tho it ofc "rolls" now, actually the pesky thing keeps tryin' to escape the workbench in fact - it's gonna be a while before it runs unfortunately. I'm a bit busy these days and I'm down to the gritty details, which are time consuming, kinda boring & yet still a bit tricky...

One of the things that's being worked on when I have a mo, but w/o pics or babble is I'm trying to dial in the steering, reducing the bump steer as much as possible & experimenting w/sensitivity. Basically just fiddling around with linkage location & lengths ATM, while critical naturally - there's really not much ta show for it lol

Cogswelln - the 48V 15AH LiFePO4s are 8lbs each pack (total 16lbs), less than 1/2 the weight of the 12AH SLAs (yes, those woulda been a whopping 32lbs w/less reserve urg)... they should help preformance immensely, oddly their lighter weight & smaller size isn't actually making the support trays any easier to make tho - I decided to make the trays somewhat "universal" in that I can mount either the LiFePO4s or the SLAs in them and have them transferable to another bike if wanted... so although the LiFePO4s weigh much less, the support structure needs to be able to take the far greater weight of the SLAs, "just in case" lol

I do have a few pics of that progress, such as it is heh (and yea, the cawfee cans are back);


 

LS614

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Dec 22, 2009
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

If Ferrari made a motorized bicycle this would be it....:D
 

Dan

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May 25, 2008
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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

That is an awesome site Tom, ty

I hate that! When folks created cool stuff before I thought of it!
 

BarelyAWake

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Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Ahahah that's freakin' ossum (^)

...except... o_O ...is that a rudder? I really think that's a rudder man o.o



Downhill doesn't count OMG *shakes fist*

:p ofc it's still cool as heck, love the early attempts at aerodynamics :D
 
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