The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike

[2door]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Geoff,
When you get finished you'll need one of these> TerraTrike - BOB Trailer - Yak Plus (with Dry Sak)

Was giving the idea of a front suspension some thought and remembered an old Radio Control off road car I had stashed in the closet. It uses an almost exact copy of early VW front end that was very popular with the dune buggy/sand dragster crowd. My thought was to use this triple beam, trailing arm concept but built much lighter for trike use. Where this one uses comparitively massive control arms, you could copy the geometery and duplicate it with smaller diameter material. Controling the steering would be simple with linkage to side tillers or handlebars. Just something else to consider.
Tom

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

No doubt Tom, I've needed a trailer for a while lol & TBH I want one for the taddy if for no other reason than (trying) to show off in reverse I've been tryin' ta keep cargo solutions in mind tho, while a rear rack is a possibility it'd be unsprung weight - I'm thinkin' probably laptop cases on the sides under the fuel tank as panniers.

Yea - I've played w/the dual beam VW front ends a bit in my rail days & had discounted the idea as they're usually dependent on internal torsion, a bar that acts as a spring when it twists inside the cross tube w/the shocks just for dampening bound & rebound. That bar wasn't something I wanted to try and make lol... but your model car looks like it depends more on the coil over shocks... mebbe doesn't even have an internal torsion bar?

Interesting... another issue w/the torsion suspension is lack of travel, but that's really not a concern w/the taddy... so yeah! Thanks man, I hadn't really thought about a dual beam torsion arm suspension as a viable alternative, but now that you've made me think it out - I jus' might have a backup plan should the A arm setup defeat me, there's defo no scrub issues w/that, it'd take up less room and it'd be easier to scratch build

 

[2door]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

You're correct...no torsion bar on the R/C car. The coilover shocks take care of it but then we're not concerned with bounce on something that small.
You could always go with a tubular axle and a transverse buggy spring. They've been using them on hot rods for many years...Neat, and you could go with a parallel 4 bar set up instead of radius rods. Chrome or polished stainless, of course.
Tom

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Transverse buggy spring? Ya mean what's affectionately known as a "suicide front end"?

Now that's a reassuring name for it lol (yea, I hadta google it)... while a valid candidate, there's a coupla problems w/it - namely, it's quite tall and ofc it's not independent. Although it could be worked with... if the crossbar is cut & hinged in the middle to allow independent travel & the shocks mounted at an angle to reduce vertical height... it's defo something worth considering actually given it's ease of construction & simplicity.

Here's a pic of something similar on a taddy;

Tho as it stands I think I like your trailing arm suspension idea a bit better as it takes bit less vertical room, particularly in the middle of the chassis where I've already got some height issues. Granted, the dual A arm doesn't help w/that either - but I've already ordered 'em so well see lol... The more I think about it the more I'm liking the advantages of the beam & trailing arm suspension should the A arm setup not work... but I'm gonna skip the chrome ifn ya don't mind

 

[Cogswelln]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

but the chrome would be awesome.... as long as it wasnt only the front suspension that is chromed.... with all these different types of suspensions out there either way your trike will definitely be one of a kind. keep up the good work

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

While I do think it looks sweet on other people's builds, I'm not the biggest fan of chrome or any super shiny bits on my bikes... *shrug* I unno why, prolly 'cause I'm lazy and it's a pain to keep clean? When I do get around to paintin' it - I'm prolly jus' gonna paint the frame & suspension a semigloss black... it's too "utilitarian" for any kinda showy stuff in any case heh


Well, the 'Yerf Dog' front suspension showed up & I think it's gonna work out pretty well actually - it's too wide ofc, but the center box is gross overkill in any case as it's way too heavy & overbuilt for this application. I think I'm gonna use the 'Berserker' trike's method of mounting the A arms to the pedal boom, I'm particularly fond of the clever method of utilizing the upper A arm's cross bolt as the shock's upper mount;



Here's a coupla pics, but I've not done anythin' other then set it there, a lil off to one side to make up for the width. The tubing is a hair larger in OD than what I would have used were I have made them from scratch, but only a lil so the weight isn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be. One of the things I like about it is it utilizes proper ball joints for the spindle assemblies, while the 'Berserker' uses lil "banjos" and they're no doubt fine for the application... with the added weight & speed of this mutant taddy, the beefier fittings & fasteners makes me feel a bit safer lol;



...and with that, I'm down to a short enough "to do" R&D list that I can actually make a list instead of just "everything" heh, best yet I've only one major must have purchase insofar as "expensive" components go & that's just three quality shocks

Still to be sorted before the build phase can actually begin;

Spindles
Disk brake mounts
Pedal boom
Battery tray
Steering & controls
Front & rear suspension mounts
Chain routing & idlers
Electrical harness

 

[Dan]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Wow BA, just wow. Looks awesome and so incredibly well thought out.

LOL, the "Barely Awake MotorBike & Trike .COm" Has a great ring to it and would be properly inappropriate so as to scare and intrigue.

Happy Holidays Brodder and all! ...and to all, a good carb

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

heh, Thanks Dan, but we'll see how "well thought out" works out, there can be a world of difference between lookin' groovy on the bench & actual function... but here's hoping anyway

I've gotta say that "properly inappropriate" made me lol, that's a Danism ifn I've ever heard one

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Well... after the holiday hiatus I've been makin' the death metal noises again, choppin' the top off the front end assembly & cutting 3" outa all the A arms. Interestingly it went far better than expected - I had initially thought to help narrow the wheelbase by cutting a section out of the middle of the A arm box mount as well as the arms, but as it turns out the size of the box was deceptive, after lopping the unneeded bits off I took a couple more measurements and to my surprise it's only 4 1/2" from wall to wall on the inside - which is incredibly convenient as my frame rails are 4 1/4" wide on the outside, which is pretty much perfect as that leaves me with just enough room for mounting tabs!

This small coincidence is a huge relief really, although obviously I don't mind and even enjoy making things, even get a certain amusement out of the unholy union of parts that have no relation with each other or perhaps even shouldn't be joined at all - there are limits ofc heh

Even the A arm choppin' went far better than expected, with an A arm setup where they're not only parallel but also of equal lengths, it's critical for them to all be the same or they'll bind & lock instead of moving freely, putting a huge strain on the ball joints. So instead of hackin' at them with a cut off wheel, I brought them into work to use our semi-auto horizontal bandsaw... which may sound all fancy-pants lol, but it's jus' a metal cutting saw that allows you to clamp yer work down & the saw descends to cut, allowing you to set things up for more precise cuts than freehanding it.

...not to say that the saw itself is square or true, but at least it's predictable lol

At the moment they're just tack welded together to see if they were indeed all equal lengths & for another test fit, my "new" wheelbase width is 32" (contact patches, not outside of hubs) & I think it's lookin' like it'll all work out

 

[2door]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Geoff,
That looks great...really great. Keep on keeping on.
Tom

 

[bobby]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

cool..i built a electric trike when i was in school and we raced it at lime rock race park and placed 2nd. you should get a tear drop body for aerodynamics. but build looks cool. and if your front wheels wobble at speeds pm me

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks Tom & bobby I've considered turnin' it into a velomobile... not jus' for aerodynamics but for added comfort & adverse weather conditions. There's a coupla problems w/that however, "getting" a body shell isn't really an easy option as this build is a bit of an aberration & making one is ofc possible - but is as much of a project in itself as makin' the trike heh. I could ofc modify an existing body to fit, but TBH I've not found one I like, most are insanely expensive (as all recumbent stuff is lol) & they all have the problem of being somewhat awkward, massively increasing the trike's overall length...

It's still a really good thought however and I am keepin' a lookout - I've found a canopy w/potential: http://www.blueskydsn.com/kit_canopy.html & a neat rear fairing that w/some alteration I think would look pretty sweet;

GoblinCricket fairing

...but ofc it's the front that really helps w/aerodynamics and I've just not been able to find/figure out one that doesn't seem gommy-lookin' to me *shrug*

There's a buncha things that could make my "front wheels wobble at speed" & they all give me the heeby-jeebies - but what didja have in mind?

 

[Cogswelln]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I must say while looking at the pics, i must say it is coming together nicely the front suspension is looking good, and i must say happy new years to ya, because you are a local for me, and because you are one of the most knowledgable people i have ever met for this hobby. Keep up the good work ba. i am interested to see how this build works for ya

 

[bobby]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Fall 2010 Electrathon Race Effervescent Apparitions


i wish i could find a pic of my old schoold but it was at same race way. and theres alot of classes might have a gas class

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks Cog Happy new year ta ya too mang!

bobby, that's a great link for sure & congrats on yer race placement - that's no small achievement! The body shells on those are defo less gommy lookin' than most of the velomobile ones, but given the increased wheelbase and not needin' pedal clearance you've a bit of an advantage lol Still, there's a lotta good info there and I'll defo be checkin' it out.

I am building for efficiency over speed however, so even if there is a hybrid class I'd prolly get smoked if I entered anything other than an endurance rally. There is ofc an interrelation between the two, particularly given the limitations imposed on the vehicle, so the info crosses over nicely.



I seem to have hit a bit of a problem... one that's been sneakin' up on me for a while & is quite frustrating in it's apparent simplicity. I've put it off simply because I needed to finalize the rest of the chassis first & although I've been keepin' an eye out...

I'm havin' a heck of a time sorting out the pedal boom of all things

Length, location, chain routing, normally the "challenge" in building a DIY taddy - no problem at all, it's all been sorted out by thousands of other builders. Where it's getting tricky is the last thing I expected and that's having it adjustable in length & removable (storage/transport). You'd think it'd be simplicity itself, jus' have a pipe that fits into another w/a clamp or series of bolt holes. Yet that's the trick of it - despite the fact I've access to a metal fabrication shop, nothing we've got is even remotely suitable. All of the steel stock is not only way too thick & heavy, none of it is even remotely close to the size of the bicycle down tube usually used for a pedal boom, worse yet NONE of the stuff we've got even fits with itself, we just don't stock anything where the OD of one fits the ID of another >.<

So... of all the things I thought I could "cheat" on by using readily available stock & preexisting parts - apparently the bedanged pedal boom simply isn't one of them, which TBH has caught me completely by surprise. I've a rectangle steel down tube & I think I'm looking at having to fabricate it's "receiver" from sheet stock of all things. I know it's not the biggest of setbacks, but it's a touch frustrating as I'm so close to havin' the rest of the frame ready to weld up - except ofc that I need the pedal boom mounting sorted before I can commit to mounting the front end *sigh*

Ah well, the joy is in the challenge right?

 

[2door]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Geoff,
Do you have access to a lathe? If so fabricate the extendable part and 'turn down' the portion that goes into the reciever so that you have a 'telescoping' effect. Think seat tube / seat post. As long as you stay with reasonably strong yet light enough for your purpose you could use solid bar stock for the sliding portion welded to tubular above it for weight saving. Of course this dictates the use of round stock as opposed to square or retangular. Kind of hard to turn down square stock in a lathe Just a suggestion.
Tom

PS: They make shaft stock ( lots of sizes to choose from) with a keyway pre cut into it. This would give you a way to keep everything aligned. I invision a key permanently affixed to the reciever with the keyed shaft sliding up or down through it.
Tom

 

[Cogswelln]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

try welding the pedal boom to a plate, and than bolt it to the frame, only complication with that would probably be the air cooling for the motor. well just an idea.

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Good ideas guys & thanks fer the brain stormin' - every lil bit helps

In some ways I think what I've come up with includes a bit from all yer suggestions, Cog - yer right to be concerned about airflow to the engine, but I've hopefully got a solution for that *crosses fingers* I was thinkin' of taking a small, rectangular plastic trash can (like the one next to my desk at work heheh) and cutting it at an angle to make a small air scoop & mounting it under the trike to force air into the engine area. I don't think it needs to be all that large & the nice thing is it'd be easily torn away w/o damage to the trike if I hit something... it may not even be necessary, but better safe than sorry and I think it'll look nifty *shrug*

Tom, I do have access to a lathe - I dunno what I'd do w/o it honestly. There' far too many bits & pieces simply unavailable... like my blasted spindles heh. The problems that are tormenting me with this aspect of the build are ofc weight & complexity, I'm trying to keep both to a minimum as much as possible & while we've got the keyed solid bar stock you've mentioned (as well as keyway cutters), it's incredibly heavy - even as short a length as would be required...

What was trippin' me up was I was thinking of the front suspension assembly mounting and the pedal boom mounting as two separate problems - trying to "bolt" the front A arm box to the frame by extending the frame itself to meet it and then bolting/welding he pedal boom to the suspension box... once I scrapped that idea in favor of using the pedal boom receiver itself as a structural member - suddenly the excessive weight of the only stock I've available for this became less a concern as I'm using far less materials, it's strength beneficial instead of simply excessive.

I've got C stock that does fit my rectangle pedal boom perfectly in height, when I make a box out of it it's unfortunately too wide so I'll hafta trim it down a bit - I rejected it initially because it has 1/8" thick walls and that's way overkill for just a pedal support, but as the frame extension - sorta a "spine" if you will, I think it may be just about perfect & I can always cut some lightening holes in it. Whats particularly interesting is once I cut out the front of the suspension box to match the back and put the boom receiver in place, all the angles worked out like I dd it on purpose! The boom receiver meets the top of the cutout in the front, the bottom of the cutout in the back, aligns with what usta be the steering plate on the bottom frame rails (same angle even) & once I trim & extend the top rails, they'll come down & meet the boom receiver jus' right for maximum support - even allowing me to lower the seat another inch!

This is all just roughed out ofc, the receiver is way too long, it's all ofset to the side so I could use a clamp, I've not cut the sides out of the suspension box yet etc. etc. but it's the general idea anyway. I'm gonna cut down & hopefully weld the two chunks of C stock today after work...

 

[kipharley]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Good ideas guys & thanks fer the brain stormin' - every lil bit helps

In some ways I think what I've come up with includes a bit from all yer suggestions, Cog - yer right to be concerned about airflow to the engine, but I've hopefully got a solution for that *crosses fingers* I was thinkin' of taking a small, rectangular plastic trash can (like the one next to my desk at work heheh) and cutting it at an angle to make a small air scoop & mounting it under the trike to force air into the engine area. I don't think it needs to be all that large & the nice thing is it'd be easily torn away w/o damage to the trike if I hit something... it may not even be necessary, but better safe than sorry and I think it'll look nifty *shrug*

Tom, I do have access to a lathe - I dunno what I'd do w/o it honestly. There' far too many bits & pieces simply unavailable... like my blasted spindles heh. The problems that are tormenting me with this aspect of the build are ofc weight & complexity, I'm trying to keep both to a minimum as much as possible & while we've got the keyed solid bar stock you've mentioned (as well as keyway cutters), it's incredibly heavy - even as short a length as would be required...

What was trippin' me up was I was thinking of the front suspension assembly mounting and the pedal boom mounting as two separate problems - trying to "bolt" the front A arm box to the frame by extending the frame itself to meet it and then bolting/welding he pedal boom to the suspension box... once I scrapped that idea in favor of using the pedal boom receiver itself as a structural member - suddenly the excessive weight of the only stock I've available for this became less a concern as I'm using far less materials, it's strength beneficial instead of simply excessive.

I've got C stock that does fit my rectangle pedal boom perfectly in height, when I make a box out of it it's unfortunately too wide so I'll hafta trim it down a bit - I rejected it initially because it has 1/8" thick walls and that's way overkill for just a pedal support, but as the frame extension - sorta a "spine" if you will, I think it may be just about perfect & I can always cut some lightening holes in it. Whats particularly interesting is once I cut out the front of the suspension box to match the back and put the boom receiver in place, all the angles worked out like I dd it on purpose! The boom receiver meets the top of the cutout in the front, the bottom of the cutout in the back, aligns with what usta be the steering plate on the bottom frame rails (same angle even) & once I trim & extend the top rails, they'll come down & meet the boom receiver jus' right for maximum support - even allowing me to lower the seat another inch!

This is all just roughed out ofc, the receiver is way too long, it's all ofset to the side so I could use a clamp, I've not cut the sides out of the suspension box yet etc. etc. but it's the general idea anyway. I'm gonna cut down & hopefully weld the two chunks of C stock today after work...

Hey Barely.If over heating becomes an issue,Instead of something hanging down begging to be ripped off.How about two muffin fans inside duct work on each side of the motor?You'll have plenty of battery to power them!
If you really want to get fancy you could even use those two fans in front (your front wheels). Kip.
[email protected]

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

It's true I've a buncha 'lectricity on board Kip, and those lil fans tend to be conveniently 12v DC (PC ones anyway) but... although I could power them off of just the ICE's charging system, as the trike is a hybrid - I'm hoping to scavenge every last milliwatt for the hub motor's use & battery charging. Granted, they don't consume much power - but I'm really hoping I won't need axillary cooling at all. The engine's head is fully exposed & unobstructed, it's just my seat is interrupting the air flow over it... I'm prolly gonna get a CHT/EGT gauge in any case - mostly 'cause I jus' like 'em lol