The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike

[Alaskavan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

A couple of observations: First - Mine might have been the first, but your Lifan Tadpole seems to me to be far superior. The advantages of suspension are more important for a trike than for a bike - A. It can be tough to maintain control at speed over bumps, and B. It will help you to aviod "Leg Suck" (I spent most of last year on crutches after hitting a smallish rock at 50 mph) (Some method of securing your feet to the pedals is recomended). Second - Many people theorize about building a tilting trike. I don't know why. I can take any corner on my winding highway commute at, or above, the posted speed (cornering is not a problem). Suspension is more important. Third - If you find the Tad to be a bit squirrely, try bar extensions on your handlebars. Perhaps it's because I have finer control with my hands, and wrists, on a horozontal plane, perhaps it's because of somethin else, but the addition of extensions calmed the handling of my trike down considerably. It also gives you more space for doodads on the bars.

 

[Alaskavan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Oh, and: If you need more power, the smallest Mikuni carbs will bolt right on to the Lifan. It will increase your power impressivly. It will also decrease your mileage impressivley. And, Hooper Imports is a good source for parts for these motors. They ship fast and are willing to go USPS Express. And lastly (I think), I've tried no name tires, and Schwalbe tires. I'm now running Maxxis Hookworm tires. I'm happy with them. Now if I could go a little easier on the throttle, the back one might last 2 summers.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thank you for your insight & experience Alaskavan, it's both helpful and reassuring TBH

As for "superior" ...well... maybe, maybe not - there's advantages & disadvantages w/the suspension design, that may well be a "apples and oranges" comparison between our builds. For example, you've mentioned yours is extremely stable in high speed turns - I would attribute this to both wheelbase width and your extremely low center of gravity... while I tried my best to maintain the same width as many "preformance" tadpoles, I was reluctant to increase it any as the narrow/nonexistent road shoulders around here are an issue, as is ofc traffic. The problem arises that in order to take full advantage of the suspension travel w/o bottoming out & damaging my pedal chain under max compression I ofc had to increase "normal" ride height somewhat - I can only hope that the added weight of the engine & batteries will help, acting as "ballast" by lowering my COG... ofc I can relocate the shock mounts to lower the ride by reducing travel if it proves a serious enough issue...

I suspect that while my build may be more stable in rough terrain, yours would take me on the twisties...

As for steering sensitivity - I've been unable to determine what type of steering method you've used, is it the classic under bar w/two linkages to the spindles? If so, my steering is somewhat more complex w/four linkages - two forward frm the handlebars parallel w/the chassis, steering plate, then another two parallel w/the A arms to the spindles... as with everything else this was a compromise, I traded off simplicity & potentially "feel" for a near infinite amount of adjustability... we'll see how that works out lol ...still, do you have any pics of your handlebar extensions? Now you've got me wonderin' heh

 

[Alaskavan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Ah, yes. I forgot. My steering is: Handlebars conected directly to the top of kingpins, with a tierod connecting the kingpins. Your's may well not have the "twitchy" feel mine had originally. Also I forgot that at the same time as I added the extensions on the bars, I stretched the frame 18". That might also have affected the feel.

 

[Dan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Van, quick question. Been following BA's thread here with great interest and have been toying with the idea of a yr round trike. Here in CT, can have 5HP with no speed cap. But has to have a seat height of 26 inches. I too have been mentally designing it to tilt mid ship. Do you think this is a bad idea?

It would also be part of the suspension.

 

[Alaskavan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Dan. given a seat height requirement as you say, then tilting might be an advantage.

BA, let's see if I can find something that shows the bars. Ok. They are just extenssions like you would use on any mountainbike.

 

[Dan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks Van.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Right! Kingpin steering, the most simple & reliable of all! I considered it for those reasons... but as that would make my controls & handlebars unsuspended, moving up & down with the wheels as I went over rough terrain... well, I decided against it. I do like the handlebar extensions tho - I'll hafta investigate those, thanks

If anyone's curious, here's a coupla vids;

Alaskavan's Lifan Zoomer tadpole;
YouTube - ‪Burnin' rubber‬‏
YouTube - ‪Trike test run‬‏
YouTube - ‪Another fine ride.‬‏

Examples of suspended tadpole stability;
YouTube - ‪Mad Max evo 1 auf Freecross Downhillstrecke‬‏
YouTube - ‪Mad Max Action am Semmering , by Bike Revolution‬‏

Example of suspended tadpole instability (time 2:35, ride height/COG)
YouTube - ‪The Berserker Tricycle‬‏

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

...as for build progress, well - I'm afraid there's been some setbacks again >.<

Takin' a break from the fabrication & welding, I decided to try and tackle the spaghetti systems of doom - to at least get 'em sorted out & ready to install after the welds & painting are completed... and there was much frustration & disappointment.

I'd ordered the complete 12v Wiring Harness E Start II for the thing, hoping to reduce the amount of fabrication involved, nothing like havin' a factory harness to work with I figured...

and wow, was I wrong.

It's a relatively simple thing to wire up this engine, there's some nice schematics here for example: Wiring With Lights - Pit Bike Tech Info @ TBolt USA, LLC yet... the harness I received bears absolutely no resemblance to any schematic I can find anywhere, with a whopping forty connectors and NO color coding whatsoever - it's not even close to matching the factory OEM harness I salvaged from a four wheeler w/an identical engine...

So... after a few hours of cornfuddlement & aggravation I decided the last thing I need is to make this electrical system any more complex than it already is, I'm jus' gonna hack it up for the connectors & make my own simplistic harness... well, as simple as possible ofc, hopefully far less of what's in the above pic

 

[rustycase]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Seat height regs?

Put a spring under it to pop it up when you get off !

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Seat height regs?

hmm? There's no seat height requirements for motorized bicycles or mopeds in the state of Maine (there isn't even inspections for 'peds) - but I'll defo be gettin' a goofy orange flag lol

Put a spring under it to pop it up when you get off !

Actually - I've thought about a pneumatic piston (like a hatchback's but smaller, from a lrg toolbox mebbe) to gently raise the seat & keep it there if I need to tinker w/the engine & wiring... but at this stage o'things, a bungee seems the most elegantly simple solution heh


...and no, an ejection seat would be a bad thing methinks

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Well... I knew the wiring harness I ordered would have at least a couple of unneeded sections, I figured I'd trim it down & customize it for my application - what I didn't consider was it's absolute insanity, not only does it have at least twice as many connectors as I can imagine needing even with full lighting (40 & that is jus' connectors, not counting individual pins) - it apparently doesn't have a few very needful ones for some essential & basic engine components (like the regulator/rectifier). To make matters even more confusing - I've gotten more than one wiring schematic from the various suppliers of this harness, not only do they admit "the colors may not match" but not a single one of the available diagrams include all of the wiring the engine already has, what you would need to connect the harness into ofc >.<

The solution is simple tho, if vaguely annoying.

I very deliberately ordered a 'Lifan' brand engine for just this and other, similar issues. This is actually a Honda CRF50 clone, which means it's specifications, all parts & wiring are identical to it's Honda twin - ya jus' don't get the spiffy Honda warranty. So, I'll just order the "official" Honda CRF50 Service & Repair Manual as within it's proprietary pages are the secruts I'm finding so needful. It's only $30 & I prolly outa have it anyway, but I was hoping I wouldn't need to as almost all the info is readily available on the interwebs... & I'm mebbe a cheap SOB

As it'll be a week or two before I'll have the weighty tome, I'm jus' gonna pack up the wires & whatnot and get back to some other stuff I shoulda prolly been workin' on anyway lol & with that thought in mind I turned the taddy 'round & ripped the rear end off, to finally weld up the shock mount for good & zot that pedal chain tensioner while I was at it.

I still hafta weld the rear caliper mount to the stays... but to do that I need to know exactly where the caliper needs to be & for that, I need to make a simple spacer to offset the rotor from the electric hub as the Avid BB5's adjustment knob hits the hub (rotor & caliper not pictured)... simple enough & I've the aluminum stock all picked out - problem is the mandrel for the hole saw is boned so the spacer is a no-go until it's replaced. It's a shop tool at my work so I'll prolly jus' grab one of the shelf tomorrow *shrug*

 

[Alaskavan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Here ya go, just ignore the colors and go for : "From - To":

There are other pages for other systems.
Hooper Imports Experts on Chinese Motorcycles and Parts, Engines

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

That's the trick of it tho, Hooper's states that from the engine you'll have;

unlabeled
blue/white
green
white
yellow

while what I have is;

pink
blue/white
green
yellow
black/red

and a secondary, unmentioned pigtail that's;

pink
blue/red
green/black
green/red
purple

The secondary connector may be gear indicators & neutral safety switch... maybe... but even so I dunno what's what and the variance between what Hooper says & what I've got is... not confidence inspiring lol

 

[Dan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I wanna say "just cap off the white wire and don't hook up the kill switch until you get her started" but you live close by and am worried you will show up at my door with a bat in your hand.

Way OT. I just put a trailer light harness in my car. Now when I put on the right signal, the flasher stays on and the glove compartment light flashes. LOL

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Heh, what - doya have a Subaru er sumfin? BTW, jus' to be a pain - my Schwinn runs one of Norm's headlight & taillight combos offn the ebil white wire and the kill switch has been workin' jus' ducky for years lol... I kno right?

In any case, floundering helplessly - I've given up trying to sort out the Lifan's wiring for now... as with so many aspects of this build, it caught me by surprise with exactly the opposite problems I was expecting. Being an en00b, I'd thought the electric hub & batteries would be the tricky bit as I'd not played w/em before, while I have created any number of custom wiring harnesses for assorted ICE vehicles Ofc... ya do hafta start somewhere and so far, the Lifan ain't giving up no secruts lol

I s'pose I could just preform some exploratory surgery & figure out the wires medang self... but I've decided to be a coward & I ordered the Honda Xr50r, Crf50f, Xr70r & Crf70f Clymer Motorcycle Repair Manual which may or may not prove enlightening...

oh... that's a really bad pun >.< sorriez lol

Anyhoo - moving right along, I cobbed together a rear rotor spacer in the meantime, every lil bit counts right?

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

...and fabbed up a rear caliper mount as well, jus' needs to be welded in place at this point (temp painted to prevent rust).

Pretty simple really, I have a couple few extra caliper mount adapters so I could use one as a drill guide, normally a bad idea if there's threads as that'll pretty much guarantee you'll bung 'em up lol

I am gonna leave the factory V brake bosses however, I might wanna swap out rear wheels, might wanna forgo the jackshaft and use the rotor mount on the hub for a sprocket... heck, the only reason I can think of to remove 'em is cosmetic... and I figure a coupla plastic caps will take care of 'em well enough lol

 

[Alaskavan]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

If the Honda manual doesn't clarify the wiring, I could probly sort through my wiring and draw up how it goes. Since mine has a CVT, I won't be able to help with the wiring for the transmission.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks man, much appreciated!

...tho I'll say I hope it doesn't come to that, not only do I have high hopes for the Clymer manual - diggin' through a harness can be both a pain & an open invite to the evil Murphy

While I know Clymer, Chilton & Haynes aren't always the most helpful of manuals (they oft try to include too many years/models w/not enough info), I gotta say it'll be refreshing to have some sorta instructions for a change lol

 

[BarelyAWake]

Re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Whilst I waits, I sorted a few lil details so minor that that didn't even make the list lol, like figuring the cable routing for the carby & makin' a custom length cable for it, fixin' my admittedly somewhat sloppy welds on the intake manifold (so the bolts would seat properly, HT flashback anyone?) & stickin' it in there complete w/gaskets & cable... yea, it's a bit of a tight fit lol

It's so snug that I hadta have that "hump" in the frame (4th pic) as w/o it - it'd be impossible to get the carby in there. There's just enough room, tho it's tru I hafta pull the carby by removing the intake manifold, I can't pull just the carby itself... tho I s'pose that doesn't really matter - it's jus' two bolts either way heh

Still, everythin' is still easily accessible (idle, fuel/air & choke) and I can easily remove the cable & slide for tuning time... /waits