Why buy an electric bicycle?

GoldenMotor.com

SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
0
0
Lake Worth
Give me a break! (and I'm not picking on you either)
It was a joke... Sheesh.. I was trying to make light of the whole thread.
I noticed you didn't show ALL of my quote.
Read it in context and it won't be a flame. It's when people only take one little part of a whole satement and use that particular discussion point and turn it INTO a flamewar.
Also notice that I'm posting in an ELECTRICAL bike forum. IN MY OPINION.. Nothing beats electric.. If someone doesn't like that statement.. Too bad. It's MY opinion and if someone wants to use that as a point to start a "flamewar" in an electric bike forum, then so be it.
I (originally) made valid points as to why I PERSONALLY think electric is better.
I can make an opposing discussion point if I want.
The thread is.. "Why buy an electric bike?"
I gave extremely good reasons why...
The main (and, in my opinion, only) opposing point was cost.
It's the only point that has any validity to it, IMHO. (Energy Density really means nothing).
Given that fact, I could spend $20,000 and get a electric bicycle with a 200mile range, 40mph top speed with 5 min recharge time to 90-95%.
Given THAT fact, I could just buy a moped for $2000 and get the same thing, but it would use gas and all the ramifications along with that.

The point is anyone can build anything for almost nothing, given the time and know-how, and make it work for them.

If I really wanted, and had the time... For $600 I could make a bike that does what mine currently does at double the price AND recharge for free via solar.
 
Last edited:

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
411
83
Dallas


Don't be confused by the pedals, the A2B Metro is more of an electric motorcycle than it is a bicycle, but those pedals do confuse lawmakers, who categorize it as a bicycle. That means the A2B exists in a legal context that's a little grey, but beneficial to riders; you can ride it on bike paths and, sometimes, even sidewalks, all without the physical exertion of pedaling. That's not to say that you can't pedal, but the A2B is much heavier than a traditional bike, so it's hard work and, on this model, pedaling doesn't recharge the batteries. There is a new model planned that will link pedals to batteries for human-powered recharging. The lack of a license plate will make parking a cinch: just lock it to any bike rack. You do pay a penalty for convenience though—the A2B tops out at 20 mph.

Price: $2699
Top speed: 20 mph
Range: 20 miles
Weight: 72 pounds
Battery: Lithium-ion
Recharge time at 110 volts: 3.5 hours
Ultra Motor (US)
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
411
83
Dallas
Given that fact, I could spend $20,000 and get a electric bicycle with a 200mile range, 40mph top speed with 5 min recharge time to 90-95%.
This is a bold claim. Could you please provide a link to a bike such as you're proposing here? None of the bikes I found so far come anywhere close to your claims.
 

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,454
4,920
113
British Columbia Canada
While we all argue like the Ford, Chevy, Chrysler guys, E bikes may well be the wave of the future.

CH80 Bicycle Engine Kits by Chris Hill

This of course happened in Canada but take note of the players. Look up the web for motored bicycles laws and see how much you can find about ICE powered bikes. It's all about electric.
My guess would be that as soon as a battery can be found that works to power a vehicle 250 to 300 miles and can be mass produced economically there will be laws phasing out gas motors.
The governments look at our bikes as toys. The enviromentalists hate noisey, polluting two and 4 stroke engines and have the governments ear and power to help them.

I have an e-bike and the next one will be gas. It's like arguing about which car is best. My theory is, it's the one that gets you there with out problems. Gas or electric.

Steve.
 

KiM

New Member
May 5, 2010
301
0
0
Australia
This is a bold claim. Could you please provide a link to a bike such as you're proposing here? None of the bikes I found so far come anywhere close to your claims.
Sangesf is likely speaking of the new Nanon Tech lipo packs rated at 90C burst means you could charge not only an e-bike size pack in several minutes but also an nano tech car battery if you had a generator/charger capable of it...Fella on Endless Sphere is using them atm in a tubbed drag car build. Another advantage aside from their high 'C' rating is dramatically increased number of charge cycles over lithium polymer, not only fast charging but longer battery life ....

EDiT: Dave31 just posted this link in another thread, not a bad off the shelf e-bike even if it is just a jazzed up Cyclone 1200watt motor ... Why though do we seem to be only getting 'off the shelf' poorer performing e-bikes presented here? I'm absolutely positive 99% of the china gurl made bikes are DiY with many hours put into them after the kit purchase to make them reliable. If you look at some of the bikes put together by members on Endless Sphere e-bike forum some of the more 'anti electric' guys here might have a lil more respect for electric.

Well said as always tooThudSTeR ;-) well...cept for the not owning a hub motor "yet" part Grrrrrr ....LoL @ overuse of emotions, "small things amuse......" maybe ?

KiM
 
Last edited:

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
411
83
Dallas
Sangesf is likely speaking of the new Nanon Tech lipo packs rated at 90C burst means you could charge not only an e-bike size pack in several minutes but also an nano tech car battery if you had a generator/charger capable of it...Fella on Endless Sphere is using them atm in a tubbed drag car build. Another advantage aside from their high 'C' rating is dramatically increased number of charge cycles over lithium polymer, not only fast charging but longer battery life ....


KiM

Is GM or any other manufacturer using these battery's to power their vehicles? If no, why not?
 

Thud

New Member
May 26, 2010
205
0
0
West Michigan
Lets get technical

For the benifit of ayone looking on without any experiance with RC cars/helicopters or general battery knowledge. I offer this to show what sangesf was aluding to above.
(but i do wish the world would use reasonable numbers & not the #s NASA gets with an unlimited budget (imangine any favorite emoticon here)

we'll run the #s on these batteries:
HobbyKing Online R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy nano-tech 5000mah 6S 25~50C Lipo Pack

That battery has a sustained "C" rate of 25.
5ah x 25 = 125 amps.
This means that this battery can be safely depleated in 2.4 minutes
& charged in that time also if we can provide enough current to do so.

Here is a real world senario....
using batteries, we never discharge 100%. In fact we try to size a pack to only utilize 50% of its capacity to garrentee we will get the full life out of our investment. & Using Lipo I normaly only charge to 90-95% of its full capacity.
Agian to maintain life span....sounds kinda goofy till you analigise that you never operate an automobile engine at 100% of its capable rpms either. you can but at the expense of it designed life span.

I charge my batteries with modified power supplies like this one:
MW 12V DC 29A 350W Meanwell Switching Power Supply - eBay (item 230567700751 end time Jan-26-11 18:18:15 PST)

My outlets at home only allow me about 15 amps of service..so when I charge my 20AH pack it normaly takes me about an hour to get to my max capacity.
 

solokumba

New Member
Nov 24, 2010
215
0
0
58
Florida
Just to muddy this up a bit...
Aren't all motors electric powered and all engines gas powered?
So.. motorbicycling should just be electric bikes and enginebicycling would be gas bikes?

... runs to hide behind the washer in the garage ...
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
411
83
Dallas
Re: Lets get technical

For the benifit of ayone looking on without any experiance with RC cars/helicopters or general battery knowledge. I offer this to show what sangesf was aluding to above.
(but i do wish the world would use reasonable numbers & not the #s NASA gets with an unlimited budget (imangine any favorite emoticon here)

we'll run the #s on these batteries:
HobbyKing Online R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy nano-tech 5000mah 6S 25~50C Lipo Pack

That battery has a sustained "C" rate of 25.
5ah x 25 = 125 amps.
This means that this battery can be safely depleated in 2.4 minutes
& charged in that time also if we can provide enough current to do so.

Here is a real world senario....
using batteries, we never discharge 100%. In fact we try to size a pack to only utilize 50% of its capacity to garrentee we will get the full life out of our investment. & Using Lipo I normaly only charge to 90-95% of its full capacity.
Agian to maintain life span....sounds kinda goofy till you analigise that you never operate an automobile engine at 100% of its capable rpms either. you can but at the expense of it designed life span.

I charge my batteries with modified power supplies like this one:
MW 12V DC 29A 350W Meanwell Switching Power Supply - eBay (item 230567700751 end time Jan-26-11 18:18:15 PST)

My outlets at home only allow me about 15 amps of service..so when I charge my 20AH pack it normaly takes me about an hour to get to my max capacity.
Ok so far so good but don't stop there. How does this relate to running a motor bicycle? How many battery's is it going to take to go say, 25 mph for even a modest distance like 25 miles? How much will the battery's weigh? How much will they cost? What about physical size?

In other words, it they're so good why aren't motor bicycles running around using them?
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
411
83
Dallas
So far the only convincing argument I've seen for a Ebike is, "every other kind is illegal where I live."
 

Thud

New Member
May 26, 2010
205
0
0
West Michigan
Solok, LMAO!
I have tried to get my motocross buddies to properly refer to their machines as "Engine-a-cycles" for years...they don't see the humer.

Mabman, see some of my tinkering here:
http://motorbicycling.com/f15/thuds-bikes-projects-26645.html

As long as we are on the semantics side & proper naming:
Operating above 20mph on public roads you are "Mopeding" & not motored-bicycleing.
we can beat that dead horse later....(look no emoticon)


Bikenut askes:
Ok so far so good but don't stop there. How does this relate to running a motor bicycle? How many battery's is it going to take to go say, 25 mph for even a modest distance like 25 miles? How much will the battery's weigh? How much will they cost? What about physical size?

In other words, it they're so good why aren't motor bicycles running around using them?
#1. how does that relate? Its a simple explanation of the "c" rate & what the batteries are capable of. (yes they can charge in 3 minutes)

#2 & #3 mixed together: I never recomend any one to start with less than 20ah of battery capacity, if they have no intention of pedaling. So I will use my current pack as an example: I currently run a 25ah 52v pack..(not the super NANO cells) cost me just under $600.00 with shipping. After 1 year it is showning no measureabel loss of capacity (I don't use it every day) I have seen several guy's with comuter builds (every day of the year) that only get a year from their batterys....in every case they are running less capacity than they should-over discharging & having all kinds of fun while shortening the true life of the batts.

(This is all "theroy" right now as i don't have the time invested to verify my expectations-Properly handled I expect at least a 800 "full" cycles from a pack. In an e-bike environment, I would expect 1500+ that is an optomistic 5+ years of comuting 5 days a week.)

#4 My battery weighs 17#s (my power package weigs less than 8#s)

#5 pack size is configurable..my battery is in a single "brick" that measures 5.5"w x 11.5"l x 6.5" tall. (about the size of 1 lead acid "starting" battery in an auto)
#6 The big one: Short answer is-They are.
You Just need to know where to look & see them. This is prolly a very bad example of practicality....But see what member Recumpence can assemble with off the shelf parts & a little inginuity-
YouTube - Extremely high power E-bike tadpole trike
Check out the "PKripper" video with a nearly identical power unit.

Lots of folks enjoy cars,motorcycles & guns....you can buy a Ford,Honda or a Remington....If you want a top Fuel dragster....you have to build it....Same for a MotoGP bike...& you need special licensing to buy/own a Tompson Automatic wepon.

I have a question:
Does any one sell a "built & deliverd" china-girl bicycle?

Or is there allways a disclaimer to beat the Consumers safety Act Laws (wich limits what can be sold as a "bicycle")that every one loves to quote so much.
like this:
DISCLAIMER - Acme Motor Bikes

I think we already answerd the OP questions..
Because they want one-
It may be a better fit to their application-
Personal position regarding the environment (justifyable or not)
Its cool technology to experimant with.
Because they can.

Maybe start a new "Why Not?" thread :) (couln't not use an emoticon for those following allong LOL)
 
Last edited:

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,454
4,920
113
British Columbia Canada
I was PM'd about my thoughts on battery powered vehicles. Just want to assure the poster that my mental cookies did not slide off my plate.

The Chinese have banned motorized bicycles using a china girl engine in most parts of China. They were replace with e-bikes. That lead to a new problem with the pollution from the lead battery manufacturing.
They have the largest supply of available lithium that is the prefered battery medium at the moment.
They have the need for battery power and the scientists to create the batteries. It is only a matter of time before they find the perfect battery and allow the world to replace
ICE engines with electric vehicles. This is only my opinion but I firmly believe in it.

Bolivia has the worlds largest supply buried under a salt lake but Chavez has the interested world parties working against each other while he does nothing but play games with them. When that supply can be tapped it will supply the world needs for lithium and prices over time should fall.

Electric powered vehicles are where model T fords were early in the last century. That industry matured over time and so will the electric vehicle industry.

My Dad always told the story about my Grandfather buying a new model T in 1917 and every one in town saying he had wasted his money because cars would never replace a horse. The feeling being the cars were only used in the better parts of the year and put away in winter when a horse could be used all year over all kinds of roads.

We know the end of that story.

Steve.
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,632
411
83
Dallas
Solok, LMAO!
I have tried to get my motocross buddies to properly refer to their machines as "Engine-a-cycles" for years...they don't see the humer.

Mabman, see some of my tinkering here:
http://motorbicycling.com/f15/thuds-bikes-projects-26645.html

As long as we are on the semantics side & proper naming:
Operating above 20mph on public roads you are "Mopeding" & not motored-bicycleing.
we can beat that dead horse later....(look no emoticon)


Bikenut askes:

#1. how does that relate? Its a simple explanation of the "c" rate & what the batteries are capable of. (yes they can charge in 3 minutes)

#2 & #3 mixed together: I never recomend any one to start with less than 20ah of battery capacity, if they have no intention of pedaling. So I will use my current pack as an example: I currently run a 25ah 52v pack..(not the super NANO cells) cost me just under $600.00 with shipping. After 1 year it is showning no measureabel loss of capacity (I don't use it every day) I have seen several guy's with comuter builds (every day of the year) that only get a year from their batterys....in every case they are running less capacity than they should-over discharging & having all kinds of fun while shortening the true life of the batts.

(This is all "theroy" right now as i don't have the time invested to verify my expectations-Properly handled I expect at least a 800 "full" cycles from a pack. In an e-bike environment, I would expect 1500+ that is an optomistic 5+ years of comuting 5 days a week.)

#4 My battery weighs 17#s (my power package weigs less than 8#s)

#5 pack size is configurable..my battery is in a single "brick" that measures 5.5"w x 11.5"l x 6.5" tall. (about the size of 1 lead acid "starting" battery in an auto)
#6 The big one: Short answer is-They are.
You Just need to know where to look & see them. This is prolly a very bad example of practicality....But see what member Recumpence can assemble with off the shelf parts & a little inginuity-
YouTube - Extremely high power E-bike tadpole trike
Check out the "PKripper" video with a nearly identical power unit.

Lots of folks enjoy cars,motorcycles & guns....you can buy a Ford,Honda or a Remington....If you want a top Fuel dragster....you have to build it....Same for a MotoGP bike...& you need special licensing to buy/own a Tompson Automatic wepon.

I have a question:
Does any one sell a "built & deliverd" china-girl bicycle?

Or is there allways a disclaimer to beat the Consumers safety Act Laws (wich limits what can be sold as a "bicycle")that every one loves to quote so much.
like this:
DISCLAIMER - Acme Motor Bikes

I think we already answerd the OP questions..
Because they want one-
It may be a better fit to their application-
Personal position regarding the environment (justifyable or not)
Its cool technology to experimant with.
Because they can.

Maybe start a new "Why Not?" thread :) (couln't not use an emoticon for those following allong LOL)
Thanks for explaining about your bike.

As far as your question about built and delivered China Girl bikes, I don't know about delivered, but I'm pretty sure there's many shops offering ready to ride China Girl bikes in America. Probably numbering in the hundreds.
 

Thud

New Member
May 26, 2010
205
0
0
West Michigan
No problem & your welcome.
I can't find a single on-line advertismant for a profesionaly assembled Gas powerd bike that conforms to leagal requirments... there are a few that include the dis-claimer....

Here is a video I was looking for demonstraighting the type of power you can achive...still a bad example of responcibility in action but you cant call this bike slow...a Morini powerd bike could catch up with it after 250 yards. no stock china girl has a chance till the battery goes soft in 15 minutes.

YouTube - Letting some people test ride the electric bmx!

This is my buddy Arlo1's trip to america to meet up with LFP & some other Electric tinkers at of all things... a drag race event.
(LFP has a 10 sec civic)
few enviromentalists I have met are into High performance anything....
 
Last edited:

Black_Moons

New Member
Oct 25, 2010
205
2
0
Canada, Bc
Sangesf is likely speaking of the new Nanon Tech lipo packs rated at 90C burst means you could charge not only an e-bike size pack in several minutes but also an nano tech car battery if you had a generator/charger capable of it...
KiM
90C *DISCHARGE* capability in bursts, does not mean 90c *CHARGE* capability. Lead acids can do 10c+ discharge bursts easy, some even good for 10C continious untill dead (About 3~5 mins after losses), but they take 2 hours to get to 80% charge!
Typicaly fast charge for a lithium battery can be as little as 30 mins to about 80% charge however. The last 20% for any chemistry is typicaly a pain to get however, and can take as long or longer as the first 80%! Thankfuly AFAIK lithium don't mind being at only 80% charge for extended periods of time. (Lead acid however do mind)
30 mins however is still rather impressive! 1 hour is a little more typical, but still rather impressive.

PS: you won't see cars charging up in 30 mins because of how much energy it takes, You'd need a 400A+ service deticated to the car to charge it up that fast. the Tesla Volt takes 4 hours to get to 80% charge on a 50A 240v plug! (Equivilent of an oven)
 

KiM

New Member
May 5, 2010
301
0
0
Australia
90C *DISCHARGE* capability in bursts, does not mean 90c *CHARGE* capability. Lead acids can do 10c+ discharge bursts easy, some even good for 10C continious untill dead (About 3~5 mins after losses), but they take 2 hours to get to 80% charge!
Typicaly fast charge for a lithium battery can be as little as 30 mins to about 80% charge however. The last 20% for any chemistry is typicaly a pain to get however, and can take as long or longer as the first 80%! Thankfuly AFAIK lithium don't mind being at only 80% charge for extended periods of time. (Lead acid however do mind)
30 mins however is still rather impressive! 1 hour is a little more typical, but still rather impressive.

PS: you won't see cars charging up in 30 mins because of how much energy it takes, You'd need a 400A+ service deticated to the car to charge it up that fast. the Tesla Volt takes 4 hours to get to 80% charge on a 50A 240v plug! (Equivilent of an oven)
People on this site seem to have a fascination with lead acid :-S The absoluete worst choice for a battery in an e-bike, period....anyways, Nano Tech have a burst of 90c yes, and a continuous of 50c alot higher than your lead acid reference, and as i said, IF you had a generator/charger combo capable of it... As we are meant to be talking e-bikes here, a nano tech ebike battery is well capable of being charged in alot shorter time than 30 minutes IF you have a capable charging setup, Thud has just outlined the charging method he uses (as do I) for charging our 50v 20ah lipo packs, an hour charge with dual meanwels outputing ~14amp, these size packs are good for upto 40-50km range at a legal pace without pedaling, hehe ThudSTeR will flatten one in 10-15minutes on his race bike LoL regardless, i for one don't want to be on a bicycle seat longer than it takes to travel 50km my longest ride to date is ~25km and that was enough for me, if i need to go further, i'll use a car. When i get home from a ride i plug my bike in, its full again next time i wish to use it, cost me less than 10cents in electricity, with the planned wind and solar charging station that will be reduced to 0cents per charge... I'll get upto 1000 FULL cycles (from dead flat to full) leave you wizzards to work out how many years that will equate to using the bike daily charging from flat to fully charged but i believe the figure would be up near 5 years? not bad for 600 bucks worth of batteries IMHO...What would you have to change in a china gurl over 5 years including the fuel and oil, from what i have seen on this site the the bikes you guys bolt these things on will fall apart long before this....you will find the e-bike wins out hands down on cost over the long haul.

KiM
 

LI-ghtcycle

New Member
Mar 28, 2010
23
0
0
Oregon
Re: Lets get technical

Ok so far so good but don't stop there. How does this relate to running a motor bicycle? How many battery's is it going to take to go say, 25 mph for even a modest distance like 25 miles? How much will the battery's weigh? How much will they cost? What about physical size?

In other words, it they're so good why aren't motor bicycles running around using them?
Great discussion here! Glad to see that we can all talk together and not get too hot under the collar (ok, maybe a little heated, that just makes it fun! :D

I'm brand new to this site, I have been doing the E-Bike thing for the better part of a 1 1/2 year, and I want to show you what I have been able to do with VERY limited electrical knowledge and a TON of reading, posting and asking questions on Endless Sphere.

First off, now that ES is back up, I can show you a lot of the info I am about to pass on first off, let me say that in the beginning I was trying to decide on either gas or electric, and choose electric mainly because it's more acceptable and will not cause you a hassle where I live using it on the street & bike paths (here in Oregon, as long as it is under 1000 Watts, goes 20 MPH max with no pedaling, it's treated as a bicycle, however, with electric you can get away with tons more power with out raising an eyebrow!)

My father was in a serious bicycle accident, got a pretty nasty knock on the head, and needed something to help him back on the bike, so we got into electrics.

First we did the cheap "Lead Sled" version with 3 car batteries we had laying around in the yard and I was really disappointed with the "only 15 MPH" performance of the bike until I measured the weight of the old kiddy trailer we had those batteries in, and it weighed 115lbs!!?! :-||

Once we got smaller lead acids (SLA's) from a cheap used battery + the 2 little bitty ones from my nephew's razor pocket bike, we had something worth riding, and it was going about 22-24 MPH on the flat, no pedaling, and this was with a cheapo dept. store schwinn I bought for $20 at a yard sale, so all told we had, $330 shipped into the Amped Bikes Direct Drive (no gears in the hub) hub motor. The bike weighed about 80lbs though!!!

The range realistically was more like 15 miles, but hey, we did it with a $20 used SLA from the battery factory, a $20 yardsale bike and kit.

Total: $370


Now, fast forward, I have used a geared hub motor kit that was pretty light, but didn't have the power I wanted, I had been using 36V and 28V Dewalt battery packs with a special interface card that fooled the battery pack into thinking it was plugged into a drill while it was powering my bike.

So, I was using $800+ worth of batteries (56V) and charger on a 36V Amped Bikes rear geared hub, on a Nishiki MTB I bought cheap at the local pawn shop. I was pretty happy with the lighter weight than the DD hub motor we had on dad's bike (mine was 9lbs his is 13lbs) but still, it wasn't super light, I think it was around 75lbs and would take me to my brother's house 27 Miles away with MAJOR hills (some up to 12%) in-between.

I could do all of this on about 30 - 40% of a charge, and it took around 3 hours to recharge the batteries (I had eight 28V Dewalt batteries ran 2 series, 4 parallel to make a 56V 9.2 AH battery) and my battery pack weighed about 16lbs. I was pretty happy with this, and could get a good 26 - 27 MPH on the flat, but was shocked when I tried it on a hill, and although it would do it, it wasn't geared for anything but speed, so it sacrificed torque.

I was then surprised even further that the gearing of the planetary transmission in the geared hub was limiting the performance so much that when I used this same 56V battery on my dad's motor (we decided to try switching) the same motor that I thought was more of a dog (he was running 36V Dewalt batteries but wouldn't get enough of them to make it worth it, i.e. he was trying to use way too little capacity, so he had no torque and went back to his SLA's lol!) at 36V and now I ran it at 56V and it was a rocket!

If you want a super easy plug & play set-up, use some of the batteries that Thud suggested, and get a 9C (nine continents) Direct Drive hub motor on the back wheel in the 9 X 7 winding, and depending on how fast you want to go, just add volts. With 56V of Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFeP04) batterys like the dewalts use, that same "dog" would fly up the local 8% grade hill (no pedal start just throttle and go) at 12MPH and this was amazing compared to my geared motor that needed help and would only creep up it at 7 - 8 MPH (this is a place where I can only pedal 3- 4 MPH alone)

Now I know what you are thinking " Yep, I knew the electrics were heavy and underpowered ... "

Hold on, fast forward again today to my LATEST E-Bike build, enter The EBoo.st (Kepler Drive)

Here is a video from the inventor:

YouTube - Kepler_Drive_on_New_Inventers.wmv

On that video, you will hear from an Australian who took a bunch of good ideas that were already out there and put them together in a unique way.

The real question for any motorized bike IMHO is it going to be a pedal assisted bicycle, or a ultralight motorcycle?

I like both! Don't get me wrong, but for the most part, I am concentrating on the pedal assist, as I have Gulf War Syndrome, and bicycling is about the only thing that helps my symptoms, and with out an assist, I would get stranded from time to time when my chronic fatigue nearly has me bed ridden.

Here is my build:

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Kepler Drives are HERE!!

It's 41 lbs (15 lbs for motor, battery(I have 18AH's 3x the nominal battery) & accessories, another 2 lbs for my gadgets and gizmos, the bike started at 24 lbs) and so far, while I am still being extra kind to the batteries as I break them in for the first 10 charging cycles, I have only gone about 50 miles using 2/3 of the total battery capacity.

This is with the same new Lithium Cobalt (commonly referred to as just Turnigy Nano Tech) that Thud was describing, that is also being used in the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf, and to give an example, another ES's member, used just a 3S (10V) pack of the 45 - 90C variety to turn over his father's high compression v8 Work truck!!

Here's the thread, first he started by starting up his turbo car multiple times, then he moved up the the big block high compression V8:

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Nano-tech LiPo demonstration :) Engine cranking

I am using the "less powerful" 25 - 45C version but only 4S (15V) because my first plan was to use a different motor and voltage (8S or 30V made up of two 4S batteries in series, paralleled 3 times, making 30V, 18AH's) and to my amazement, at only 15V (I am using less voltage than anyone else I have seen on ES) I am getting 22 MPH solid even in the rain with a stiff headwind, on a bike that feels no heavier than any average department store bike! brnot

I don't really have a "dog in the fight" I like both gas and electric, electric is what I know best so far, but I see reasons to use both.

If you're curious about what electrics are capable of, check out Dr. Bass's absolutely INSANE 67MPH Down Hill Bike with 3in tires! (Ok, ok it's really a motorcycle with pedals!

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Doc's Giant DH comp 2003 Project !

Bottom line, I think it's really about personal choice, some people like the quiet of an electric, some like the ease of filling up at a gas station with an ICE.

I will have both, but first I am going to take my E-Bike coast to coast to show people not only can it be done, but how easy and simple it is.

It takes about 1-2 hrs to charge up my batteries, but this is only because I am being extra cautious, charging them individually instead of in series as I too have seen all the youtube vids of exploding LiPos.

I had a couple donated to me by the local hobby shop, I did some experimenting of my own and tried to get a LiPo battery to go boom, but it wouldn't even fizzle, not even after I shot holes all the way through it with a high-powered pellet rifle and dunked it in water.

I could easily charge my entire pack in 1 hour or less, and when I go on my tour this spring, I will be using double that capacity (36AH's shooting for 80 miles range between charging regardless of the conditions) and I will be using solar for some of my needs, however, to really make it feasible I will be plugging in at various places along the route from West to East coast, mostly at restaurant, camp grounds, coffee shops or any friendly touring bicyclist's house where I will be staying for most of the trip for lodging.

The next build I make will be the same motor in a 7 to 1 single stage reduction #25 chain drive on the same or slightly higher voltage to keep things light. I will be geared for 31 MPH no-load speed, but in practice I expect to get closer to 25 MPH on the flat, and hopefully 16 - 20 MPH up-hill on a 10% grade with me & my fully loaded touring E-Bike coming to about 350 lbs.

I have had the bike in the first friction drive build loaded up to 110 lbs (bike not including rider, 180lb rider = 290lbs) and to my amazement it pulled up 12% grades at 8 - 10 MPH! This was before I had the proper alignment of the roller, and was loosing a lot of speed to poor grip of the friction drive, now I have gained considerable grip and hills that I could only hit at 10 - 12 MPH with out cargo, I can now do at 16 MPH with moderate pedaling, and this is with a friction drive! With the chain drive I expect considerably better performance. .wee.
 

KiM

New Member
May 5, 2010
301
0
0
Australia
Excellent informative post LI-ghtcycle while not initially a fan of friction drives of any type the Kepler eboost definitely impressed me, for a lightweight power assist bicycle it would be hard to beat in the weight stakes, mounitng weight on and above the rear wheel is a big no no it severly effects a bicycles handling, majority of friction drive setups were like this, while Kepler's eboost is rear mounted it is forward of the wheel, lightweight and obviously has little to no impact on the bikes handling, outside of course the assist it gives the rider in the power department.

I wish you well in your coast to coast adventure will subscribe to your theread on ES when it appears, as i am sure you will keep some for of log?

KiM