The Rustoration Build Off

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weekend-fun

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Jun 21, 2009
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Congrats to this thread and all of its posters for number 400!

My build is still in idle, haven't really been working on it *ashmed face*
Thats why tomorrow is my offical WORK-ON-THE-BIKE-AND-DO-NUTIN'-ELSE Day.
Iw as thinking a motorcycle light for a headlight. Do you think this would work???
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Silver Bear, as I told you my Dad always said it was a poor day when you couldn't bring back better from the dump than what you took. They stopped the heavy, once a year trash pick up here, but that was incredible pickings.

Lots of nearly new bikes sitting on the side of the road just waiting for a new owner.

If the plans I have for the sidecar running gear works you should be able to just bolt the trailer to the frame. The wheel you have will work perfectly.
My aim is to try and make it so that it can be made with the minimum of welding and fancy tools. Just off the shelf parts where possible.

Do you have a photo of Aaniimoosh the Wonder Dog?

Steve.
Yes I do have photos of the Moosherator... Aaniimoosh The Wonder Dog, able to leap tall snow banks in a single bound, almost as fast as a speeding red squirrel....etc., etc., Best dog in class, winner of the annual intergalactic Pluto award of canine excellence, etc. Plenty a platitudes.
She's a good little friend, my Indian dog (Aaniimoosh means 'dog' in Ojibwe) a mix of poodle and schnauzer. I rescued her from not having a home and she rescued me from a pretty low period in my life when I was crippled and surviving a long and harsh northern Minnesota winter in an old, cold trailer in the Superior National Forest. I've had a number of dogs at different times in my life, but this one has been a pretty much constant companion. That's a 'custom' turquoise and harness leather collar I made for her. Like all dogs, she likes a ride in the truck, but best of all is her trailer behind the bike. When she wants to go for a ride she'll sit by her trailer and ask by barking. Funny little dog who grins when she's excited. That's a 63 Schwinn American pulling her instep. We already wore out one of those trailers with about a thousand miles of hauling her around and also Indian kids. Making a sidecar is for her benefit. I like dogs better than a lot of the two leggeds I know. Too cold to work on the Elgin today.
SB
 

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fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
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British Columbia Canada
Silver Bear, no wonder she is the Wonder Dog. What a sweet heart.
I often feel that animals are sent our way at difficult times in our lives. It's happened to me too many times not to believe.

Pretty neat trick. Bark and ride

Can well imagine that the kids are thrilled to hear you coming. Lots of rides and the pup to play with. A double treat.

Thats the main reason I built the sidecar as I did. There will be kids and parents at the bike meets and shows who aren't MB owners and I figure I can give them a chance to take the kids for a ride and maybe they will get interested in Motor Biking. That and I can never just build something and not see how far I can take it.

Years ago we were the only farm that had a Victorian hen house. There was a house wrecker in town and the die was cast. The only reason it wasn't two storys was the love of my life at the time, put her foot down because she knew by then there was no stopping once I started.

Got a string of medical appointments this week. Figure if I've lived this long I better start taking care of myself, so work on the sidecar is going to be spotty at best this week.
Did everything in the interior except the seats and I have to go get the foam when I'm out tommorow
My brother said 3 feet longer and we have a power boat.

Working on the next sidecar while I'm waiting around. Think this one is going to be a simpler design. I really need an every day usable one.
Like your idea of the birch bark enclosed trailer. Wish I was closer to a source of bark What a challenge that would be. Anyone at home who could get some bark for you if your not home in time? Thinking of Ontario in June.

Steve.
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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400 posts already? o_O Wow - time flies lol *shrug* I've had the usual delays and setbacks that are part n'parcel with these things... but fortunately nothing that had anythin' to do with the project save not bein' able to work on it as much as I'd like. (ona side note - doggies rule trufax!).

Well... I guess I had a setback heh - I've decided that while I could persevere and get my fenders to some semblance of rounded, I just haven't the fortitude that silverbear has and I've decided to replace them, using the originals only for hand painting the detailing practice (which I need desperately - it's been a looooong time lol). I did give it a shot... actually quite a number of attempts, but I came to the realization that not only is there nothing "special" or different about them in any way - I kinda really want the Duck Tail Fenders style for this, to help "age" the build.

Here's some of the tappin' and filling attempt (click to view);



Onto the joys of tank building - while you can easily bend 20ga mild steel with your bare hands, there's no way to control the amount, location, or uniformity that way. To make matters more interesting should you overbend or do it wrong - the metal has a "memory" of sorts and it's dang hard to get it back to perfectly flat. While it's ofc fine to do long, gradual curves by hand, for sharp, uniform bends with a predictable shape it's best to make yerself a DIY sheet metal brake (or buy a lil one, they're cheap... but I'm even cheaper lol: sheet metal brake - Google Product Search).

As this is just a lil project and somewhat narrow bends, just two chunks of angle steel works great. I've welded flatstock to these with C-clamp heads for heaver gauge bends - for something like this tank it's not really needful tho. For sharp bends I use the other piece of angle steel (the sharp bend coulda been "sharper" in the pic but was just an example), for rounded bends I find some pipe or something of the correct diameter to use instead (in this case a plunger handle) The square block is jus' to prop it up for the pics - you'll need room for the metal to bend up to a 90 degree angle, depending on what you're doing;



A warning however - while the sharp bends with the two chunks of angle steel will always be right on the line, with one angle and a round it seems to always place the bend on the tailing end. In any case the bend itself takes up room so you should always make lines and do a few trial bends on a scrap chunk to see where/how much you need to offset your marks.

Under bending is fine as you can just do it more (spacing out the next bend can also give you a larger radius than you have pipe for... but that's tricky), but over bending can spell doom. Do NOT just try to free-hand it back, the metal will develop a waver right next to the bend your trying to flatten - it's best to clamp it in two pieces of flat stock (at least twice as thick as what you're working) and squish it flat with a clamp or two. If it's close - put those next to the bend (on the side you don't wanna mess up, or both) then give it a couple, gentle presses to "urge" it back.

More pics and progress to come ;)
 
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BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Here I've the top and sides of the tank cut and filed to fit - saving the rounded corners till after I make the bends in the top panel;



First bend went slick and smooth and the corner of the side panel just needed a touch of the Dremel to round it to fit - very reassuring as despite the "know-it-all" tone of these posts it's been quite a while since I've done anything like a tank lol;



Now that I know for sure that my madness will work out - the rest of the bends are quick and easy (small gaps are only because I'm using tape to hold it together... and the pesky stuff stretches heh);



Now I just need to make the bottom panel which has the same 1/2 round in the back but only a single bend in the front so it should be simpler. The bending stage is a bit tricky as if it's off by even a little it screws everything up - particularly if the angle from side to side is even just a little wrong as that'll "twist" the whole project... so again, test bends, good marks as guides, rounding the corners after the bends are made, spare panels to test/replace, and ofc - patience... the one commodity that I'm actually a lil short on sometimes heh
 
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BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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It's a lil thing but I thought I'd share it with some fellow geek... erm... *cough* "enthusiasts" that may appreciate it heh

I've been hunting after this lil widget for a while now, I'd seen them before on other, larger machines and I thought that a glass bowl style fuel filter would defo add to the "vintage" appearance of my Rollfast build. While it's true the the screen mesh is slightly more porous than a good inline filter, I suspect with these engines that doesn't matter very much and the quality built in fuel petcock makes up for that anyway. I could I suppose take the screen out and put in another filter inline - but I'm trying to avoid the "look" if you know what I mean and it'd be awkward as I'm going for flared copper tubing for fuel line. Water is actually more a concern of mine anyway and the bowl traps that (and sediment) quite well.

I asked around a bit and all I got for my troubles was the ol' crazy eye... as per usual lol so I hunted the dead engine piles we have where I work. After a buncha digging (reeking of varnished gas) I found an old smashed Kohler with one stuck to it and once I actually had one to show - it was a simple matter of tracking down the part number and gettin' a new one from Napa (7-02350). As it turns out it's a commonly available part just no longer in common usage, it's mostly seen on older Briggs & Stratton engines.





Other minor advantages is ofc it's cleanable/rebuildable, and I may well be able to mix my fuel/oil in the tank at the gas station without fear of clogging by closing the shutoff and shaking the bike. Once I reopen the petcock any excess oil trapped in the fitting will just end up in the bowl, flushed out by the passing fuel as the engine runs (the theory anyway) (^)
 
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silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
113
northeastern Minnesota
Barely,
Great gas tank how-to series of commentary and excellent photos. While I don't know that I would ever have the courage to do this myself, I just might and I know if I do that I'll be referring to this tutorial for guidance. Thanks for the extra effort it has taken. I like the fuel bowl and of course will now be on the lookout for such at the landfill this summer. Some of the old outboards had brass ones... I like brass and copper as versions of poor man's gold. Ha!
I do understand why you are going with new fenders. I have put so much time and stewing into these old Elgin fenders with really pretty marginal results so far. It has been so cold I haven't done anything in awhile, but a warm up is coming tomorrow and I hope to do some sanding. I know they are not going to look "like new" and a discriminating eye will see lots of imperfections. That's how it is going to be. I'll give it some more effort, but pretty soon now they will get painted and declared "good enough". When all is said and done, it's a bicycle after all and it will look pretty good. I have some lumps, scars and dents, too, so rider and bike will match. Other projects are calling out for attention... that new to me 38 Elgin I got off of ebay awhile back needs cleaning up, a 24" 55 Huffman step through from the landfill last summer needs a strip down and paint job and I want to strip down and repaint the frame on my 63 Schwinn American. So pretty soon now I'll put the fenders and guards on, (stand back a ways) and take a picture to post of the finished bike. Your tank is going to look great, by the way... it's going to be an awesome bike.
SB
 

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,487
4,998
113
British Columbia Canada
BarelyAWake, the bar goes higher still. Nice way to bend the metal without putting the money out for a bender. You are still the man with the plans.

The glass, gas filter is a touch of genius in my books. Definately a bit of the old ways.
Together with the tank it should be perfect.

The fenders on the Monark were perfect , thank heavens except for one minor dent.. I didn't know enough to ask if they were.
Got an extra set just to get the chrome fender bits and he sent the fenders to. Yipes, got a feel of just what you guys are up against. Toss up between an axe attack and a 2x4.
They will go on the sidecar if they will fit.

Silver Bear, hope it warms up soon. Not much worse in my books than looking out at the snow and thinking of all the things you have to do but can't.

Bairdco, Merry Christmas

Steve.
 

mekano

Member
Nov 4, 2008
219
13
16
Stockholm, Sweden
That rear mount could get ground down a bit, couldn't it? At the engine side of the mount... the flat side.
SB

Right! That rear mount alum must be treated, maybe you could even toss it away and do the hockey puck thing? http://motorbicycling.com/f6/2-front-mount-fix-cruiser-frames-11736.html
Then the "slant" head, whatever that means, I know It's a leaning spark plug. I am going to google translate "slant" after this post just to be updated. /The Swede

EDIT: Oh... "Slant" meant what the plug was doing on the new ones... leaning so to say. Lol... bye!
 
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bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
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living the dream in southern california
i guess we all think alike. while youse guys were typing, i was doing it.

cut down the rear mount as small as i could, and it still won't fit. it's closer, and it'll probably fit with a slant head...

but...

1. the wheels gotta go. they're so old, they're not even clinchers. they had "union 76 chain tread" tires on them. these tires are the first pneumatic tubular tires, basically, they're an innertube with a tire tread on them. you're supposed to glue them on. this dates the bike to pre-30's, i think.

so, new wheels and tires, 300 bucks if i go worksman.

2. the forks don't have slots, they have holes. meaning you have to take the axle out and put the wheel together inside the fork. and, they're seamed, flattened tubing, and the forks have splits in them, so they would break and kill me.

NOS Ashtabulas, $50

3. the handlebars aren't 7/8". they're more like 5/8". i don't think they make throttles for them, so i'd have to shim one, unless they make motorized tricycles.

4. cranks are 2 piece cottered, and one side is wasted. regular one-piece would fit.

5. needs a seat, chain, sprocket, pedals... probably even more stuff.

6. there's no way anyone's gonna buy this bike from me, unless they're a midget. it's smaller than a BMX bike, and would be perfect for a 7 year old. so if i put $700+ into it, i'll have the coolest clown bike ever.

looks like it'll get restored and sold. it'll probably be hanging in your favorite restaurant soon.

now i gotta find another project.
 

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BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Barely,
Great gas tank how-to series of commentary and excellent photos. While I don't know that I would ever have the courage to do this myself, I just might and I know if I do that I'll be referring to this tutorial for guidance. Thanks for the extra effort it has taken. I like the fuel bowl and of course will now be on the lookout for such at the landfill this summer. Some of the old outboards had brass ones... I like brass and copper as versions of poor man's gold. Ha!
I do understand why you are going with new fenders. I have put so much time and stewing into these old Elgin fenders with really pretty marginal results so far. It has been so cold I haven't done anything in awhile, but a warm up is coming tomorrow and I hope to do some sanding. I know they are not going to look "like new" and a discriminating eye will see lots of imperfections. That's how it is going to be. I'll give it some more effort, but pretty soon now they will get painted and declared "good enough". When all is said and done, it's a bicycle after all and it will look pretty good. I have some lumps, scars and dents, too, so rider and bike will match. Other projects are calling out for attention... that new to me 38 Elgin I got off of ebay awhile back needs cleaning up, a 24" 55 Huffman step through from the landfill last summer needs a strip down and paint job and I want to strip down and repaint the frame on my 63 Schwinn American. So pretty soon now I'll put the fenders and guards on, (stand back a ways) and take a picture to post of the finished bike. Your tank is going to look great, by the way... it's going to be an awesome bike.
SB
There's no real "extra effort" on my part to describe the tank making as I do it silverbear - it serves me well to rehash the process and helps not only to confirm my theories but "forces" me to do a better job as well as I've got ya'll lookin' over my shoulder so to speak heh

Ya see the thing is it's not like I've built one before, while sure I've messed around w/metal I've not done a tank like this so I figure if I can do it and outline the basic process like ya'll suggested - others will be able too. It IS pretty much all that's stoppin' people from havin' a in-frame tank. While a simple thing for a pro to just weld and the process of measuring, drawing, cutting, trimming, bending, shaping, and fitting isn't really all that hard at all either - but it is time consuming and that's cost prohibitive as heck as some places charge around $50 an hour for that sort of thing. I do sometimes wish I had a Worksman or a more common bike for this as then I could share the templates... but I like my Rollfast :D

If you do manage to find the fuel filter in "poor man's gold" someday - be sure to post about it/part numbers man! I too dearly love to look of brass & copper and am really trying my best to have as much as reasonably possible on this build... but I'm compromising that somewhat with just trying to get even the "basic" parts together so I'll have enough to complete the bike in a "reasonable" time frame. While I don't want to finish it and not be able to ride because of the snow and salty roads, if spring comes and I'm still not done I'm afraid I'll freak out a lil lol, there's always room for later "upgrades" I figure.

I think with the time and patience yer puttin' into yer fenders they'll look great man! One of the things I so love about this thread and the bikes in it is they are all completely different methods of "rustoration" - bairdco went with preserving the original patina and put a lot of effort into a highly modified engine, you're going with a full resto & paint but preserving the originality of yer bike, while I'm shooting for the modded vintage/muscle car look by changing everything a lil bit - the result being three totally different but awesome bikes FTW!

BarelyAWake, the bar goes higher still. Nice way to bend the metal without putting the money out for a bender. You are still the man with the plans.

The glass, gas filter is a touch of genius in my books. Definately a bit of the old ways.
Together with the tank it should be perfect.

The fenders on the Monark were perfect , thank heavens except for one minor dent.. I didn't know enough to ask if they were.
Got an extra set just to get the chrome fender bits and he sent the fenders to. Yipes, got a feel of just what you guys are up against. Toss up between an axe attack and a 2x4.
They will go on the sidecar if they will fit.

Silver Bear, hope it warms up soon. Not much worse in my books than looking out at the snow and thinking of all the things you have to do but can't.

Bairdco, Merry Christmas

Steve.
lol yeah - tho a sheet metal brake scaled for this small a project is only like $50 or so, I really couldn't see buying one for a one-off project like this. Again - if I had gotten a Worksman or sumfin' I'd have prolly gotten one as all the work is in the template making process, once the templates are worked out the rest is pretty simple and I could have kicked out a couple more for people with similar bikes... but I do so like my Rollfast heh. I suppose I could just use the beast of a machine at work, but it's a touch "overkill" I think heh;



How goes the Monark/sidecar project? Any more pics of yer creation? I keep seein' a sidecar every time I look at the Rollfast... geez... and it's all YOUR fault o.o


i guess we all think alike. while youse guys were typing, i was doing it.

cut down the rear mount as small as i could, and it still won't fit. it's closer, and it'll probably fit with a slant head...

but...

1. the wheels gotta go. they're so old, they're not even clinchers. they had "union 76 chain tread" tires on them. these tires are the first pneumatic tubular tires, basically, they're an innertube with a tire tread on them. you're supposed to glue them on. this dates the bike to pre-30's, i think.

so, new wheels and tires, 300 bucks if i go worksman.

2. the forks don't have slots, they have holes. meaning you have to take the axle out and put the wheel together inside the fork. and, they're seamed, flattened tubing, and the forks have splits in them, so they would break and kill me.

NOS Ashtabulas, $50

3. the handlebars aren't 7/8". they're more like 5/8". i don't think they make throttles for them, so i'd have to shim one, unless they make motorized tricycles.

4. cranks are 2 piece cottered, and one side is wasted. regular one-piece would fit.

5. needs a seat, chain, sprocket, pedals... probably even more stuff.

6. there's no way anyone's gonna buy this bike from me, unless they're a midget. it's smaller than a BMX bike, and would be perfect for a 7 year old. so if i put $700+ into it, i'll have the coolest clown bike ever.

looks like it'll get restored and sold. it'll probably be hanging in your favorite restaurant soon.

now i gotta find another project.
I think while it would make a sweet lil MB... yer right, if no one would ride it then sadly there's little point. Still, it would indeed be an awesome MB fosho! Strictly from a financial point of view it may well be better to restore it and sell it w/o motorizing and use that money on another project... but dang - it really would look cool as heck motorized... blarg... mebbe there's a wealthy midget somewhere jus' aching to have a ride like that... mebbe lol

I musta missed it? Do you know what year/make/model that thing is? It's an odd lil one no doubt... just how bad are the rims? Are they old 'nuff to be wooden - even if sheathed in metal? If so - I dunno if I'd scrap them, the boys o'er at my local bike shop are infatuated with such things and were gluing tires onto rims similar to what you described while I was there and judging from what they said and the other oldie rims hangin' - they do it somewhat frequently. I don't suppose you need it - but I could talk to 'em if ya want and ask any questions you might have. I suspect there's a lot of value in a bike with original glued rims, even if they're not wooden *shrug* I dunno tho - you've got more experience with vintage bikes lol, so you'd know better than I.
 

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
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living the dream in southern california
as far as my research has got so far, i think it's a pre-30's "silver ring bike-about jr." made by the Fay Mfg. Co. the same company Fred Colson worked for before he started Colson Bicycles.

the wheels are steel, not the steel clad wooden ones you're typing about. i wouldn't trash them, but i'd have to upgrade them to something modern just to keep the tires on. i wouldn't trust any 90 year old NOS glued on tubulars, and the closest thing i think would work would be BMX sew ups.

they'll restore nicely, and the sew ups just might be the ticket for a rider. the cranks i could replace with a smaller size one-piece. the hardest thing to find would be a inch pitch block chain. it's like a regular skiptooth, but the top is squared off (a link would look like a "B" with the flat side on top.) a regular skiptooth chain would work, though.

it would be cool with a motor, but it'd be pretty much just an expensive novelty bike. i could put a big sprocket on it and do wheelies all day...

i only paid 50 bucks for it, and i'm sure i could resell it for at least double, probably more after it's all cleaned up. it'd be the perfect thing for an antique bike collector with a kid. they can cruise around together. and 20", 90 year old bikes are rare as ****. sadly, that doesn't make them worth millions...

ask your buddies if they have any old 20" tubular glue on tires. that'd be sweet if i could score some...
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Sure np - what's yer time frame on that? I need to go an' talk w/em bout stuff anyway... but I wasn't plannin' on that till I had 'nuff pennies saved to buy some more useless cra... *cough* um... bike toys ;)

I could go this weekend tho - I wanna see if I can find a chainguard and a "taillight" *shrug*
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Sweet - but ifn you get impatient in the meantime or wanna jus' yap w/em here's the info, just ask for Jesse or Zach and mention "Geoff, the guy w/the Rollfast MB"

Bath Cycle & Ski
US Rt 1
Woolwich, ME 04579
800-245-3626
Bikeman

I suspect they mostly do the old stuff on the side out of love - so prices may vary *shrug*