Remove the air filter and spray just a little in the carb, just a little. If it doesn't try to start it is not firing.
New and no spark.
- Thread starter LizaLaw
- Start date
Hi Liza. I had an idea and I hate to bring it up because it is a little tricky to check.. If you checked the spark and never saw one, at all, then ignore the rest of this post.
Now-
I saw a post by Maniac57 about how some magnets (the spinning part of the magneto) had their locating notches machined in the wrong place, causing a lack of spark at the right time. A spark that occurs with the piston NOT at top dead center of its motion will never work right, and probably won't run at all.
These bad magnets will show a spark in the test mode, holding the plug against the engine, but it's out of time and the engine will never run right.
I hate to see you busting a gut trying to start something that just won't.
Here's the thread about it.
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=56490
I sure hope you get it running real soon and get to have some fun with it, you deserve it after all this effort. Good luck!
(sometimes a little luck is better than all the skill in the world)
Now-
I saw a post by Maniac57 about how some magnets (the spinning part of the magneto) had their locating notches machined in the wrong place, causing a lack of spark at the right time. A spark that occurs with the piston NOT at top dead center of its motion will never work right, and probably won't run at all.
These bad magnets will show a spark in the test mode, holding the plug against the engine, but it's out of time and the engine will never run right.
I hate to see you busting a gut trying to start something that just won't.
Here's the thread about it.
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=56490
I sure hope you get it running real soon and get to have some fun with it, you deserve it after all this effort. Good luck!
(sometimes a little luck is better than all the skill in the world)
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I'm not familiar with the kit Chinese engines. I have heard of some like chain saws that do not have points on their engines and only have the spark determined by I think the magnet on the flywheel passing the magneto. I chose on my Briggs engine to just keep the old movable points (non-transistorized), and it has been working just fine. I have heard if the key or key way gets damaged on my engine then it too can get the spark timing wrong.
Briggs engines are different, but what do you suppose can be a test to tell if the spark timing is correct on this kit engine? Sorry if I am distracting too much with other kind of engine, but trying to learn ofwhat else I am not all to familiar with.
MT
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=557861#post557861 Offroading
Briggs engines are different, but what do you suppose can be a test to tell if the spark timing is correct on this kit engine? Sorry if I am distracting too much with other kind of engine, but trying to learn ofwhat else I am not all to familiar with.
MT
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=557861#post557861 Offroading
O.K. Liza ... I still haven't seen an answer too the question that would answer alot of these (way out there ideas )"possible causes" of this dilemma of yours ... IS THERE SPARK ?? or not ?? simple ques. .... easy too check for ... why have I not read an answer that would tell me if it is there or not ??
** It takes only a couple of "simple" things too make a 2-stroke run ... the two main ones are ... fuel and spark ... that's it ... without having both you can pedal that bike too the moon and back again and your results will be the same because without those two simple things there is just NO WAY IT WILL RUN !!!
**
please ... go , if you haven't already , and check too see if you are getting SPARK ... without it you are only wasting your time ! If you can't 'see it' because maybe it is too bright outside or ?? then go in a darker area *(maybe a shed or garage ?? ) But you HAVE too find out .. FOR SURE if it is there .. Ignore all the 'way out' possibilities about timing and ?? the chances of that are about the same as you getting that motor too run without spark at all !!!
** It takes only a couple of "simple" things too make a 2-stroke run ... the two main ones are ... fuel and spark ... that's it ... without having both you can pedal that bike too the moon and back again and your results will be the same because without those two simple things there is just NO WAY IT WILL RUN !!!
**
please ... go , if you haven't already , and check too see if you are getting SPARK ... without it you are only wasting your time ! If you can't 'see it' because maybe it is too bright outside or ?? then go in a darker area *(maybe a shed or garage ?? ) But you HAVE too find out .. FOR SURE if it is there .. Ignore all the 'way out' possibilities about timing and ?? the chances of that are about the same as you getting that motor too run without spark at all !!!
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look here:http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=571504
I think I had a 'part 2' there someplace too.
Ahh, I hadn't realized this was a 9 page topic when I looked at the pics and posted ;-}
Okay I checked for spark and I didn't see one but it is bright out here and since I'm at work, I am choosing to be hopeful, and tonight when I am done, I will check it again. Thanks for all the support. I seriously appreciate it and clearly need it... Hee hee. Liza
You have a multi-meter?
It's pretty easy to test the electronics.
Just a recap so I have it down.
This new build http://kcsbikes.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=732 just a month old came in with no spark condition.
My troubleshooting procedure is simple these days.
Disconnect everything (plug, CDI wires, and kill button)
Ohm the Black magneto wire to a head bolt, it should read a dead short.
If not, check the ground tab on the magneto.
Note:
The new skyhawk CDI's have no white wire, ground is the lower connector but it has a wire from it to ground.
Old style mags with a white wire have a tab out of the mag that solders directly to the mag base and they can come loose, just hold it down and re-solder.
Ohm the magneto from the black and blue wire, 320-380 ohms is ideal, an open or dead short means a bad magneto if the wires are connected.
Ohm the CDI in the 10K-20K scale.
Red+ meter probe to CDI black wire.
Black- meter probe to the spark plug cap.
You should get about 6.9K ohms.
If not it could be a bad wire or cap.
Unscrew the plug wire at the cdi, use pliers or even cut it off and dig the junk out if need be and do the same test above again to the cable screw on the CDI.
If that works get a new wire and plug cap, if not you have a bad CDI.
If all of that is good there is only one thing left, the magnet.
That was indeed the problem with this repair on a new build with a 2014 gasbike.net front page engine kit.
When you pull the 4 bolts out of the magneto mount it should slam itself against the magnet, I mean to the point where it is hard to even get your first bolt in.
A weak magnet that lets you move the mag around pretty easily is not strong enough to create a spark which is what this repair had.
Magnet replaced, problem solved and my repair is done.
It's pretty easy to test the electronics.
Just a recap so I have it down.
This new build http://kcsbikes.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=732 just a month old came in with no spark condition.
My troubleshooting procedure is simple these days.
Disconnect everything (plug, CDI wires, and kill button)
Ohm the Black magneto wire to a head bolt, it should read a dead short.
If not, check the ground tab on the magneto.
Note:
The new skyhawk CDI's have no white wire, ground is the lower connector but it has a wire from it to ground.
Old style mags with a white wire have a tab out of the mag that solders directly to the mag base and they can come loose, just hold it down and re-solder.
Ohm the magneto from the black and blue wire, 320-380 ohms is ideal, an open or dead short means a bad magneto if the wires are connected.
Ohm the CDI in the 10K-20K scale.
Red+ meter probe to CDI black wire.
Black- meter probe to the spark plug cap.
You should get about 6.9K ohms.
If not it could be a bad wire or cap.
Unscrew the plug wire at the cdi, use pliers or even cut it off and dig the junk out if need be and do the same test above again to the cable screw on the CDI.
If that works get a new wire and plug cap, if not you have a bad CDI.
If all of that is good there is only one thing left, the magnet.
That was indeed the problem with this repair on a new build with a 2014 gasbike.net front page engine kit.
When you pull the 4 bolts out of the magneto mount it should slam itself against the magnet, I mean to the point where it is hard to even get your first bolt in.
A weak magnet that lets you move the mag around pretty easily is not strong enough to create a spark which is what this repair had.
Magnet replaced, problem solved and my repair is done.
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K.c. both the coil and cdi have been replaced, all I can think of that hasn't been changed is the magnet. If the clutch is adjusted correctly and the engine is turning over there is nothing else.
Lizalaw are you sure the engine is turning over? Remove the spark plug and walk the bike, you should hear the piston moving around with the clutch lever released. Then put the plug back in and getting up to speed you should hear the same sound coming from the exhaust. If not the clutch is not adjusted right.
I asked for a spark check back in post #25.
We need fuel, air & spark.
Liza, please address ALL suggestions posted before moving on and replying "it didn't work".
We don't know if you are getting fuel or spark or if the engine is even turning over.
Please address all these issues properly. IMO, u need to spend some solid time on each issue, not 5 minutes here and there.
Make a list of our suggestions and cross each one off when u hav eliminated it, please.
Your approach needs to be thourough and consistent.
Keep up the enthusiasm, electron.
We need fuel, air & spark.
Liza, please address ALL suggestions posted before moving on and replying "it didn't work".
We don't know if you are getting fuel or spark or if the engine is even turning over.
Please address all these issues properly. IMO, u need to spend some solid time on each issue, not 5 minutes here and there.
Make a list of our suggestions and cross each one off when u hav eliminated it, please.
Your approach needs to be thourough and consistent.
Keep up the enthusiasm, electron.
Liza, please mention/ link us to new videos/images u upload.
Like: http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=adkBqYNLltuK82zFrUJiD4h4l5k2TGxc#.VCTdEGccT4g
Judging by the sounds from the new (first on TinyPic) "black" video; the ENGINE is STILL NOT rotating (though the clutch plate is prob. rotating). I, also, noticed that the clutch cable looks to be "locked-off" with way more wire showing than I've ever seen (http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=adkBqYNLltsgYUXcqKBum4h4l5k2TGxc#.VCTc3GccT4g). I don't think the clutch is correctly assembled/adjusted. What do u guys think?
This prob. means the clutch is still NOT engaging the ENGINE to the rear wheel. If u release the clutch hand lever, can u still rotate the back wheel or push/ride the bike around?
If the engine itself IS NOT rotating, you will NOT see a wet (by fuel) spark plug OR a spark, EVER!
I bet if the engine was rotated fast enough, the thing will come to life. Need to get the clutch to ENGAGE.
Also, try to speak louder/clearer in your videos. It is frustrating not knowing what your saying or if it's important.
Like: http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=adkBqYNLltuK82zFrUJiD4h4l5k2TGxc#.VCTdEGccT4g
Judging by the sounds from the new (first on TinyPic) "black" video; the ENGINE is STILL NOT rotating (though the clutch plate is prob. rotating). I, also, noticed that the clutch cable looks to be "locked-off" with way more wire showing than I've ever seen (http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=adkBqYNLltsgYUXcqKBum4h4l5k2TGxc#.VCTc3GccT4g). I don't think the clutch is correctly assembled/adjusted. What do u guys think?
This prob. means the clutch is still NOT engaging the ENGINE to the rear wheel. If u release the clutch hand lever, can u still rotate the back wheel or push/ride the bike around?
If the engine itself IS NOT rotating, you will NOT see a wet (by fuel) spark plug OR a spark, EVER!
I bet if the engine was rotated fast enough, the thing will come to life. Need to get the clutch to ENGAGE.
Also, try to speak louder/clearer in your videos. It is frustrating not knowing what your saying or if it's important.
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I made this "video" of what you should hear (approximately).
http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=adkBqYNLltuRvtuZBb3Guoh4l5k2TGxc#.VCTqnGccT4g
U should hear me riding a bit, then "dropping" the clutch for a few seconds (listen to the engine sound), riding a little bit more, dropping the clutch again for a few seconds, riding a little bit more and finally dropping the clutch and starting the engine. The last time it starts (maybe hard to tell, because I shut it off quickly).
Compared to your video, your just doing the riding bit.
http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=adkBqYNLltuRvtuZBb3Guoh4l5k2TGxc#.VCTqnGccT4g
U should hear me riding a bit, then "dropping" the clutch for a few seconds (listen to the engine sound), riding a little bit more, dropping the clutch again for a few seconds, riding a little bit more and finally dropping the clutch and starting the engine. The last time it starts (maybe hard to tell, because I shut it off quickly).
Compared to your video, your just doing the riding bit.
`lol ... nice ta c u've 'got my back' wuth this one electron !
** Liza ...?.... now that last post was the 'best' tip on what's needed here .....
'you need take the time it takes with these suggestions and be certain that these things are correct as we describe them or this is ALL just a waste of everyones time. Before you pedal another inch trying to start your bike be SURE that the spark is there... even if it means 'grabbing the plug in your hand on spinning the motor over to c if it 'lights' you up ..... this NEEDS to be known before anything further can be determined .PERIOD .
** Liza ...?.... now that last post was the 'best' tip on what's needed here .....
'you need take the time it takes with these suggestions and be certain that these things are correct as we describe them or this is ALL just a waste of everyones time. Before you pedal another inch trying to start your bike be SURE that the spark is there... even if it means 'grabbing the plug in your hand on spinning the motor over to c if it 'lights' you up ..... this NEEDS to be known before anything further can be determined .PERIOD .
Hi again. I am taking all the advice seriously and thank you for your patience and caring.
I won't be gone long; long enough to go through the list and check each item off one by one. about the woodruff key-all is still intact. okay, back in a couple days becausw work has my time until Tuesday-sadly.
I won't be gone long; long enough to go through the list and check each item off one by one. about the woodruff key-all is still intact. okay, back in a couple days becausw work has my time until Tuesday-sadly.
Good too hear you are still pushing forward with this ... You will get it running I am sure of it ... you have way too much enthusiasm
too give up ! Be patient ... Be thorough.. (Geeze I dunno if it's just me or ? but I can't seem ta spell t'day ! )
So "GOOD LUCK" and keep us posted with the results .
too give up ! Be patient ... Be thorough.. (Geeze I dunno if it's just me or ? but I can't seem ta spell t'day ! ) So "GOOD LUCK" and keep us posted with the results .
Hey guys?? IT STARTED!!!!! Thank you so much for your guidance and suppor! I am so grateful for this forum and you guys are sincerely the BEST. Video to be arriving in a few moments...prolly the sound again only since I'm home alone.