Mongo, 48v 1000w 'Magic Pie' hub on a Mongoose 'Snarl'

[16v4nrbrgr]

How did it perform in the cold? I've noticed sla's start slowing down their rate of discharge when it gets around 50F.

 

[paul]

so how did mongo handle in the snow? i bet that back tire you could make spin big time

 

[BarelyAWake]

How did it perform in the cold? I've noticed sla's start slowing down their rate of discharge when it gets around 50F.

Well, fortunately we've had rather warm weather so far this season so I've not had opportunity to test the extreme range of cold LiFePO4 operation... which while there's some disagreement, seems to be around -4ºF (-20ºC) to -13ºF (-25ºC) before there's a noticeable detrimental effect & even then there's some conflicting reports, claiming LiFePO4's will "warm themselves" with some attempted use even at these low temps... but that was from a battery vendor so I dunno how much to credit it. Even if so, there's also been some reports of BMS shutdowns due to the voltage/amperage irregularities and this seems completely credible - depending ofc on the sensitivity of the BMS used, but I suspect when I run into trouble it'll be most likely due to the BMS and not so much the reduced range/speed of cold batteries...

...but from me - it's all still guesswork & theory, the temps around here have still mostly been in the 20ºF to almost 40ºF (-6ºC to 4ºC), the coldest I've ridden in with the ebike for any length of time so far was 15ºF (-9ºC) in which the pack was exposed for about two hours total, with no apparent effect whatsoever on it's capabilities.

There are other factors than battery chemistry that reduce the preformance, annoyances like the need for knobby tires and their rolling resistance, the not insignificant effect of thickened lubricants, the pronounced effect of snow weight/resistance - and admittedly my stamina, wind chill and exhaustion also taking it's toll on range/speed & general "preformance" so even aside from the capabilities of cold LiFePO4s, there's zero chance I'll see anything like my full 30 mile summertime range between charges lol

so how did mongo handle in the snow? i bet that back tire you could make spin big time

Kinda tough to say really as this was the first real snowfall we've had - I've lost my groove so to speak, I'm out of practice & clumsy, it'll take me a bit to regain my snow riding abilities, doubtlessly entailing a crash or two to remind me... same ol' story as all the previous winters heh, guess I'm a slow learner. Whoever said "it's like riding a bicycle" (skill once learned, never forgotten) obv had no idea what they were talking about lol

There were however some things I noticed right away, the primary being that it preformed far better than I expected given the reduction of HP compared to the gasbikes I've previously run - in fact so far the HP difference seems to have little effect given the reduced speed required to maintain stability, while the gasbikes had the capability of going faster due to their greater power, I couldn't use that speed given the road conditions... so the effect (for me) is the ebike and the gasbike preform the "same" ...which I hadn't anticipated in the slightest.

If anything the lessened HP and greater weight on the rear tire have reduced wheel spin, which is wonderful for stability and acceleration & combined with another unanticipated effect, that of the extremely smooth and predictable application of power - makes for a far easier bike to ride on snow & ice, or at least to start out & get up to speed. Due to the weight & balance issue caused by my battery pack being over the rear wheel, once up to speed the front wheel is a bit more squirrely than I remember the gasbike's being... or I'm just completely out of practice, hard to tell at this point & it's prolly both anyway.


There's a lot of variables, things that differ between this ebike and the gasbikes I've run in the winter - not just relative power, but weight & balance, ergonomics, tire tread (lug pattern) even braking (disc vs rim) & with my appalling degradation of skill, makes it very difficult to say with certainty which I "like" better or why... but so far I'm very, very impressed with Mongo's overall ability to deal w/the white stuff *shrug*

Only time will tell if I'll remain as impressed lol & thus the "& so it begins..."

 

[paul]

i agree big time on the front wheel. might be worth getting a bag that mounts on the handle bars and putting a few things in it that are in the paniers like tools to help balance things out. figure 2 pounds form paniers moved to a front bag would be equal to 4 pounds. just a thought

 

[BarelyAWake]

I think I just night be gettin' used to it... the weight & balance is a touch wonky, but after giving it quite a bit of thought I'm not so sure adding weight above the front wheel is going to help TBH, I've had weight on the front of bikes before and don't like it much, it just feels weird. Aside from a massive redesign - disassembling the battery packs, reconfiguring the cell arrangement & mounting them in-frame I not sure there's much to be done save jus' riding the thing I think lol *shrug*

Still, that's just what I've been doing & it seems to be workin' out OK - this morning's grocery run was a new record low for Mongo @ 9°F (-13°C) with nothing to report save my fuzzy hat rules!

Yesterday afternoon, homeward bound & much warmer, a downright balmy 35°F (1°C) FTW;

 

[paul]

i might be sick in the head but i think i would love to try riding in the snow. it actually looks like great fun. not to sure about the cold that goes with it. great picture BA!

 

[Mike B]

You rock Barely!

I think you have removed all doubt regarding the durability of Magic Pies -

 

[16v4nrbrgr]

I was surprised too at the relative rideability of electric vs a small gas engine, especially accelerating. The bottom end torque really makes up for lack of top end, and makes for a really uniquely ful motorized riding experience. I love hitting trails and dirt roads in my town, and if I see a nice view, I can stop and immediately everything is silent.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Thanks Mike & Paul, I fear I may have spoke too soon when I made the claim "gettin' used to it" as Murphy was ofc waiting to teach me a lesson in humility

16v4nrbrgr - I agree & while this was all my fault, part of it was doubtlessly the "bottom end torque" that bit me, seems ebikes can be very sneaky in more ways than one... usually a "uniquely ful motorized riding experience" it comes as a bit of a surprise when it suddenly isn't lol


Well... winter riding is always a case of not "if" but when ya crash and my first of the season was a doozy, it should suffice to remind me of my mortality for at least a lil while. Defo a case of "operator error" I'd been decelerating down a slight hill before a turn, after the turn & on crunchy snow pack I thought I'd the traction to gun it up the next incline, accustomed & complacent with an ebike's "lack" of horsepower.

Ofc I didn't account for the glare ice after the crunchy patch, ofc I failed to remember an ebike's torque and the second my rear tire touched the ice I immediately experienced a massive wheelspin, the bike kicking out from under me I met the pavement with a startlingly fast vengeance, smashing into the ground on my left arm & tumbling up the hill with the bike inverted atop me, for a moment anyway lol

I then learned another nice aspect of ebikes, as one can lay there in a heap for quite a while, sucking wind & contemplating one's general foolishness without concern of a runaway bike or fuel spill FTW

No real harm done though with just the rear rack knocked askance a bit, the unphone mount unmounted and mirror cockeyed & all easily fixed... after I recover some range of movement in my left arm, which is currently refusing to cooperate, which ofc made for a very interesting ride the rest of the way home lol

 

[fasteddy]

Barely.

Hope you heal up soon and without any problems. Always amazing how fast it happens.

Impressive skid marks

Steve.

 

[paul]

dang ba. hope your arm heals fast. guess i am not missing the snow as much as i thought.

 

[silverbear]

Glad to hear you weren't hurt any worse, but sorry for the mishap. Yes, it is humbling and things go awry in a nano second, it seems. It is always startling to be reminded of how hard the ground is. And the amazing thing is that it get's harder the older we get. Just think if it had been your head making contact without a helmet. Big ouch!
SB

 

[Mike B]

There is no way I would ride in that stuff.

I tried it once when I was a kid and went down hard & fast. Yeah, you get no correction time. The wheel slides out and you go down. You can get traction on snow but the glare ice underneath will put you on your butt fast.

Yup. Big differance in the pain and healing department from 6 to 60.

 

[vsavoldi]

I'm right with ya mike, the last time I fell on a bicycle took me weeks to recover.

I don't think things hurt more when you get older, it's just that more hurts!

 

[Mike B]

Yeah, and you fall from higher up too and you weigh more.

 

[16v4nrbrgr]

The cold doesn't help, I'm hobbling around my apartment like an old man because of the cold and old injuries.

 

[BarelyAWake]

Thanks for the well wishes guys, I'm doin' fine considering - no broken bones, not even any road rash as I was bundled up for the chill. My elbow is/was swollen to the size of a small grapefruit, spent a day in a sling & I'm back to riding again... tho it's true my arm isn't particularly impressed or even all that useful yet, it's my left so it wasn't all that useful to begin with lol

Honestly riding in winter isn't all that bad, the hazards relative and based on judgment this was my fault - I was rockin' out to a groovy song & feeling secure on an abandoned bike path, I was just going too fast for the conditions & paid the price.

All part of the game I figure, lesson (re)learned

 

[fasteddy]

Barely,

Just wanted you to know that even the experts are having trouble this winter.
Hope your feeling better.

Steve.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...276682561.94302.400378930033429&type=1&ref=nf

 

[BarelyAWake]

Mongo is a hero! ...erm, rather after about two years of astoundingly faithful service - has become a Haro with a frame transplant

Nothin' wrong with the old one, jus' happened to have the suspended frame hangin' around & figured I'd swap 'em out. My daily rider/beater/commuter is now fully bouncy

 

[cannonball2]

At the speeds these things will travel a fully suspended frame is the best way to go.