100:1 Mix

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Retmachinist, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. rogergendron1

    rogergendron1 New Member

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    a little background... i raced karts all 125 to 150cc 2 bangers for a few years and my whole life has been spent on 3 wheelers ! i have been riding and restoring and selling / swaping vintage honda act 3 wheelers for a long long time and when you custom build and restore something as beautifull as a frame up resto and custom modded 250r air cooled 2 stroke 3 wheeler into a chromed out 310 stroker with a 12 in extended swing arm and extra wide axle and aluminum mags .... you tend to want to run the best of everything in it and want to baby it lol when you spend 50 to 100 hours building a kart motor and know its going to turn srs rpms and are and old school thinking kinda guy .... you run castor oil 25-30 to 1 lol i have that old school thinking and its hard to let go.

    i need some solid evidence opti 2 at 100:1 can hold up to that kind of srs abuse before i swap out and give it a try. i am sort of hard set in the old ways lol

    i have run opti 2 at 40 to 1 just fine but am not prepared to go to 100:1 mix ratio just yet

    if some one could come on this thread and say hey i raced sutch and sutch a motor with opti 2 at 100 to 1 at the track for the last 6 race events and here are the photos of the cylinder wall and piston skirt afterwards....... i would bow down and pony up on the 100:1 band wagon, that would be hard evidence it stands up to the test of the track, but as of now, i have yet to hear of a single person in my life racing any kind of preformance 2 stroke at 100 to 1
     
    #1041 rogergendron1, Dec 22, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  2. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    When I see statements like this, it's pretty clear that there's nothing anyone could say that would reassure you, regardless of their experience or application...

    ...which is ok, you shouldn't run anything that makes you uncomfortable, no one here is selling anything, no one here is trying to convince you otherwise.

    If a thousand some odd post thread isn't enough, a few more won't make a difference & you've clearly skipped & skimmed over some of it's content - for example 100:1 mixes aren't anything new or revolutionary, synthetics designed for just that have been around for nearly forty years now & major manufacturers such as Yamaha not only use it in preformance applications such as racing but in their commercial offerings as well, their oil injection systems preset at the factory you'll void your warranty if you try and alter it or even just run a richer premix.


    ...but again none of this really matters, text on a screen is hardly reassuring when it comes to a lovingly hand built engine and that's understandable. I would strongly suggest just doing a bit more research - knowing the 100:1 debate has been going on for what's getting close to a half century now and to take both it's advocates & detractors with a (large) grain of salt. Then if you should so choose, experimenting yourself with a less valued engine just to see where it gets ya... like these cheapo two stroke kits, which they're pretty much perfect for.

    Is 100:1 worth the concern? Well, aside from using less oil & thus less build-up there's really no significant preformance difference between it and any other quality oil at whatever ratio the manufacturer recommends for their product - so no, if you're that skeptical and distrustful of the experience already offered, there's nothing anyone is going to be able to say to mollify your fear, nor should they.


    Try it or don't & to each their own - I'll only run 100:1 in my 'smokers, but I've been using it for years in all sortsa stuff (dirtbikes, ultralight aircraft, outboards, etc) & have learned to trust it utterly, but that sort of trust isn't going to come from stranger's testimonials so it's up to you at this point ;)
     
  3. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    You hit the nail right on the head here BW.....

    I'm a promoter of Opti2 because of the results I have gotten with it, if it had been a 30-40:1 oil qnd I used it and ended up with the results I have I'd still be solidly sold on it, my engine perform great and not a single failure since I started using it.

    We all do what we feel comfortable with and there's not a thing at all wrong with that, I was also conce rned about going 100:1 for a while, then I took the plunge and have never looked back since.

    Map
    .wee.
     
  4. sboricic123

    sboricic123 Member

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    I took the chance on my 2 stroke bike using Opti 2 100:1 and will not look back either. I have noticed a difference on how the engine runs. The choice is yours for Opti 2 of what ratio you want to mix it at. I find it's the best 2 stroke oil I have used since I've been motor bicycling.
     
  5. Nevada

    Nevada New Member

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    I just bought 2, 3.2 oz packets of Opti 2 off of ebay for $10. Not exactly a bargain packaged small like that, ($200 a gallon) I'll give it a go though. At 100:1 that's only 1.28 ounces to a gallon of gas, so those 2 packets are enough for 5 gallons. Since my build isn't complete yet, I'll go with 85:1 for a gallon of break in.

    If someone thinks the break in ratio should be different let me know. I'm sure it's covered in the posts, but there's so many of them to look through.
     
  6. rogergendron1

    rogergendron1 New Member

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    i have been doing a bit of research and found that yes...... a few racers do use 100:1 mix ! and i have also found photos of motors opened up after races that were run on 100:1 mix, it would seem that those who run 100:1 at the track do so for the minor but important preformance gain and the ones who run that mix at the track rebuild there motors after every single race. so it would seem they run 100:1 for the race and then rebuild the motor after the race and inspect every single part. this info was found on thumper talk and a few other dirt bike and atv forums, i even found a couple of people running 75:1 amsoil in 250r dune racer trikes on my old forum 3wheelerworld. but again it would seem that after the dunes they strip it down and inspect it and rebuild it.
    so i stand corrected, 100:1 is used at the track but mostly in dirt bikes that are going to be rebuilt imidiatly after the race, i just have never seen it done in my life thats all.

    the pics of the motors i seen all dirt bike engines looked pretty good and most all were slapped back together with the same parts needing nothing replaced excsept for the rings.

    it would also seem that there are only a few oils run at 100:1 and they are amsoil, opti 2, and redline. the karting guys on some of the karting forums i was lurkin in thought 100:1 was insane and should never be done, they are all saying your a fool to go any richer than 40 to 50 to 1, but the dirt bike racers were 50/50 on it some said it offered a chance to open up wider possabilitys in jetting and provided more fuel into the chamber vs a leaner mix but agreed it was minor, the dirt bike guys had photos and everything and there are heated debates about it on the thumper talk forum, the small engine guys on the small engine repair forums all use it, no problems at all and they love it ! it would seem 100:1 is verry big in the landscaping industry and a lot of lawn care profesionals with expencive 2 stroke equipment use opti 2 and only opti 2 ! they swear by it !

    so from what i have found so far motors around 25 to 100 cc reving up to 10,000 rpms can very well benifit from running opti 2 at 100 to 1. this would include our bike motors and even a lot of moped engines. but the larger dirt bike motors are not frequently run at that ratio unless they are tunned for a race and then raced at 100:1 and rebuilt right after. a lot of snow mobiels run 70 to 100 to 1 but those are newer snowmobiels that have special oil injection systems that spray oil directly on spacific engine componants, for instance the new rotoax motor usses oil at a ratio close to 150 to 1 !!!! but it would be unfair to include that type of engine because the oil is injected directly and not actually mixed with the gas, there for the oil can be injected in verry small amounts dircxtly on the componants that need it only when they need it.

    finding a large motor that ran on an actuall mix gas of 100:1 was difficult but not impossable and it would seem that those motors are all race dirt bikes that rquire rebuilding right after the race.

    however the uncanny amount of evedence i found in the small engine repair field and the landcaping industry and small engine forums would suggest that for a small motor ranging from 25 to 100cc and reving up to 10,000rpms will benifit from opti 2 at 100:1. even verry expencive custom built chain saws that are 70 and 80 cc reving to the max and are ussed in log cutting competitions are using 100:1 ! this is proof enough for me that it will work fine in our china girls even a high reving modded one, will i give it a try ? uuummmm yeh i guess.... i am still nervouse about it but i may start at 50:1 and move up 10pts every tank of gas till i am at 100:1, gradualy bringing my motor to the ratio, i am nervouse the sudden change in oil ratio and type might cause some type of damage so will gradually bring it there.

    i would like to try it out... opti 2 that is ... starting at 50:1 and gradually brinning it to 100:1 and i will be putting it through the paces the whole time, reving it up and riding it hard like i always do, i want to put it to the test !
     
  7. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    Sounds like a plan, no need for the ramping up to the 100:1 in my opinion because with a well tuned carb it isn't gonna matter because many of us have already proven that it will work just fine from the very first start of a new engine all the way up to several thousand mils with zero oil related failures, I say dont be concerned about reinvent ing the wheel here, we've already tested the water and its just fine to just jump on in and enjoy....lol!

    If your engine is in good mechanical condition, mix up some 100:1 fire that sucker up do a couple of plug chops to make sure you have the carb jet correct and ride the poop out of it and enjoy.

    Map
    .wee.
     
  8. rogergendron1

    rogergendron1 New Member

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    lol i am gonna ! lol i have half a 12 oz bottle of husqvarna hp race oil left, but i am going to brave up and put my big boy pants on and go get a case of opti 2 pakets from ace near my house, forget all that gradual mixing stuff...lol i am just going to go strait from my usual 25:1 to 100:1 !!!!

    good god am am going to have a few days of carb retunning to do lol ! but i got a jet kit for the yamaha pw 80 carb and i have everything i need including main jets, 2 differant main emusifacation tubes, idle jets, new needles, o rings, and even spare float needles ..... so .....

    i know i can retune this carb to run any mix from 15 to 1 all the way to 150 to 1 lol its just a PITA to do it lol i know how to carb tune well its just i hate doing it and i am nervous about running 100:1 when i am soo used to tunning and running motors on 25 to 32 to 1 !

    i am running about 13:1 compression and a nkg R plug # br6hs( the r is a resistor type plug) and its the perfect color and heat range ! ohhh man i really am dreading retunning but it will be worth it ... hopefully i can get a smidget more power from the motor given the fact that i am going to be runnng 4 times less oil now witch means more gas in the chamber and more power per stroke given there will be more fuel per stroke to burn. i just pray this oil is as good as all the testimony i have heard, and all the photos of jugs i seen are true lol cause it feels wrong lol

    but hey 100 motorbicyclers and a slew of lawn care professionals have testimony to prove it works so .... it must be true and also i have recently found a karter who ran 100:1 oti 2 to test it out and ... well he had no pics but ... he seemed sincear about it and honest saying that it ran well but needed a smaller main jet and it ran a little hotter, he said the tempature increase and rejetting were worth it because the throttle responce gained was noticablely increased, he said it was crisper and quicker and just seemed better, although he didnt mention any power or speed increase he did comment on how his motor was building less carbon and reved up faster witch is important in karting as you need to get up to your tunned max rpm range as quick as possable to get up to speed and torque.

    i am just going to have to go against my intution and just do it, well off to ace hardware tomorrow !
     
  9. Southgate Jonny

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    My relatively high-compression engine runs noticeably cooler since switching to Opti2 @ 100:1...
    I must be doin it rong, LOL!
     
  10. flybytaco

    flybytaco Metal Molding Madman

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    Can not say I have experience with opti. As for sabre. I've been running 100:1 in 35 stihl 4mix blowers and whackers. As for lube related failures only 2 seized at the wrist pin this season when I tear them Down plenty of oil in low end. As for carbon buildup wohhhh no good even at that ratio I'm still tearing them Down every 3 mo... they basically run wide open 8hrs a day tho the carbon holds the valves open.
     
  11. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    "they basically run wide open 8hrs a day tho the carbon holds the valves open."

    2 stroke engines don't have valves. Are you sure that's your problem?
    This thread is about using an oil mixed @ 100:1 in 2 stroke engines.


    I'm going to sum up this thread by saying this: Try it. If you don't like it use what you want. If you've never tried it you can't have an opinion. If you've tried it and found it everything it is advertised as being, good for you. Join the club. If you've never tried it and are curious, try it and decide for yourself.

    This senseless bickering over if it works or not is fruitless and silly. Everyone must decide for themselves if an oil made to run at 100:1 is right for them. Most of those who have tried it have found it is all it is cracked up to be. Those who have negative opinions are usually those who have never tried it and are relying on old, well established rules of 2 stroke lubrication requirements. To them I say, use what works for you and that you're comfortable with. No one is forcing Opti-2 or any other brand of oil on you. Just don't tell those who have used and are satisfied with it that they are wrong.

    Tom
     
  12. rogergendron1

    rogergendron1 New Member

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    This senseless bickering over if it works or not is fruitless and silly.


    2 door ..... the sensless bickering is all the fun LOL ! srs....

    if it were not for a milion pages of sensless bickering ...... i would not have tried it.

    only been running 100:1 for 2 days and all i can say so far is that i have some minor four stroking now all across the carbs range, a veryy little off idle to 1/4, some from 1/2 to 3/4, and a lot at WOT... seems like the more the venturi opens the more it four strokes, seems like new jets are i order, i am running a 70 so i will start by gong down one size on the main and retunning the air fuel mix screw. should clear up a lot of it, i dont think its so bad i need to go down more than2 jet sizes or have to change out pilot jets.

    as for preformance ..... eeeerrrrr welll i cant tell yet its not tunned propperly anymore, but it feels like it will have a bit more throttle responce once it is tunned..... i just get that feeling from the way its running now, also with smaller jets i expect slightly better gas milage, i havent put enough miles o it for a tear down and its not tunned. but once its dialed in and i put a few hundred miles on it, i plan to tear it down and take some photos for you all and for my self to show how well this oil does in a high comp modded motor that gets beat on at high rpms.
     
  13. flybytaco

    flybytaco Metal Molding Madman

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  14. 2door

    2door Moderator
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  15. rustycase

    rustycase Gutter Rider

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    rog, u r 4 stroking now because it is running too rich!
    ...crazy, I know!

    with less mix oil, there is too much fuel!
    ...the mix oil is not considered to be part of the fuel component...

    so now you get to go through the process of leaning it out a bit! :)

    ...That taco Stihl sure does bring up a number of thoughts...
    It gets rid of the oil sump, which is probably a good idea in a hand tool ... and it's probably better than splash lubrication???

    ..lots to think about...
    It would be nice to see some -open source- insight into the Stihl engineers having discussion on that one!

    Like... would giving up one of the power strokes be SO beneficial for a clean burn to make it worth while??? and why not a valved two smoke???

    I dunno...

    Best
    rc
     
  16. flybytaco

    flybytaco Metal Molding Madman

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    2 cycle oil Tom, amsoil sabre 100;1 I want to get a br600 still motor it's 4.5hp probably get it on a bike easy ..
     
  17. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Mounting position wouldn't be an issue if I understand the concept. No sump, no worrys about keeping oil in. That would give you the option of slanting the cylinder toward the front instead of backwards like some of the 4 strokes currently popular. Would certainly improve the aesthetics.
    Keep us posted if you mount one on a bike. Interesting.

    Tom
     
  18. Jumpa

    Jumpa New Member

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    I just ordered a Dax Type D F-80 balanced low end
    this past Friday Dec. 26th W/$ I got from Christmas lottery tickets!!! Cha ching & I cant wait for it to get here! dance1
     
  19. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    Thats great......! You'll enjoy it when you get it built up and going, I know I sure like mine, got two more that Im anxious to get together when I can, some good port work and you'll be impressed how good and how much smoother it runs if it's anything like mine, it aint butter smooth but much smoother at high rpms than any of the other china girl engine I have or have had.

    I started mine off on 100:1 mix Opti2 and with a bit over 200 hard fast high revving miles on it now it's still running great.
    Best wishes jumpa.....

    Map
    (^)
     
  20. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Just a word of warning. Dax, Duane, will not warranty your engine if he knows you run Opti-2 @ 100:1. Him and I have had many discussions about this and he stands by his opinion that 100:1 isn't enough oil. I've countered his contention with no less that five engines I've bought from him, all with several hundred or over a thousand miles on them and still running perfect using only Opti from break in to present.
    If in doubt, ask first.
    To be totally accurate Duane and I have not talked about this for a while. He might have changed his mind since then.

    We used to have a running joke. He would tell me that I was going to blow up my engine and I would say, "That's okay. I'm friends with the guy who sold it to me." :)

    Tom
     

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