Velocars and other interesting vehicles.

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fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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silverbear said:
I guess another question this raises in my mind is how different does it make things when the motorcycle has no rider, but the rider is in the sidecar (sociable). The distribution of weight is quite different which must translate to different handling dynamics. ???
SB
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There is one sure way to find out isn't there. :) Build it and give a best friend the first chance at trying it out on the Bear Head State Park road and keep the video camera ready in case of the You Tube moment.

Steve
 
Intrepid Wheelwoman

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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Oct 29, 2011
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fasteddy said:
Bee's Knee's Manufacturing. The thought intrigues me to no end.

I was thinking that a piece of tubing with an inside diameter to match outside diameter of the tubing that your clamping to would work. Length of the outside tubing as you need it to be. Cut the tubing that's being used as the clamp in half length wise so both halves are the equal size. A thin blade would help so not to much metal is removed.

Weld each half of the split collars to the end of the tubing halves. You can then weld any mounting attachment you want to the tubing. To make an adjustable mount I would use one of the nuts that they use to join two lengths of threaded steel rod together. I've forgotten what they are called but I get them at Home Depot and I'm sure any good hardware store or fastener supply would have them world wide.

To mount the nut I would use lengths of strap steel the right width so they can be welded to the nut on either side. To mount the strap steel to the tubing I usually use a hole saw the size of the tubing I'm welding it to, to cut a hole in the steel as close as possible to one end. Then I cut the end of the steel off across the middle of the hole if it is still there and weld it to the half piece of tubing. Do this before you well the strap steel to the nut. Lesson learned the hard way.

A bolt with enough thread to make the needed adjustments can be threaded into the nut and cut off where needed and a block of steel with the correct size of hole can be welded onto the bolt.

Sounds like a lot of work and it is but when you look at the cost of the premade mounts I can do a lot of work.

Steve.
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Sounds like an excellent method to me :)
Bee's Knees Manufacturing, - I like the sound of that. Could indeed be a winner Steve.
There's a scrap steel specialist going by the name of Iron Maiden in Auckland (the Big Smoke) who is really well organised and sells used and offcut steel stock way more cheaply than the new steel stockists. They will also courier whatever you want in the quantity you want at a good price too.
I can and do buy the odd length of steel from the engineer chaps at the end of the road if I'm stuck with finding something the right size, BUT their prices are much more expensive per metre and if I was to ask them to order in anything the cartage costs aren't cheap. As much as I like to support the local businesses in our little town when it comes to buying steel I really can't afford to.

Sidecar and Sociable suspension? I was planning on leaving the old rickshaw chassis with its standard rigidly supported wheel to keep things simple. It's a 28inch wheel mounted on a truly massive bearing supported hub and stub axle. I was planning on using the gents heavyweight bicycle frame in very much its standard form too with unsprung strutted front forks. Once I'm sure of the geometry and the handling I will most probably devise a sprung front fork, but it won't be a priority. My old rickshaw looks to have had a long and productive life before it came to me so I don't plan on messing with its success too much :)

A sprung bodyshell and or sprung seating? I think that would be really sensible. The body that's on it at the moment is rigidly mounted and actually quite heavy so the jury is still out regarding its ultimate fate. I had wondered about modifying it to become a cyclecar body and building something new for the Sociable; - anyway we shall see.

The first official roadtest? Well I must admit I'm as much in the dark as all of you are with regard to differences in handling characteristics. My instincts say it should be a little better than a sidecar outfit, but I guess we shall all find out soon enough.
 
Ludwig II

Ludwig II

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Jul 17, 2012
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What I mean is that a rigid chassis is strong and will handle well, and for comfort spring the sidecar.

The controls can be in the sidecar, and cables and/or links can transmit movement.

Sprung sidecar wheels need anti roll bars ideally, and if you have a swing arm on the bike, it needs massive support and strength to stop flexing. Far better to have the sidecar isolated by kindly springs.
 
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fasteddy

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silverbear

silverbear

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Do I understand correctly that the frame is unsprung, but the seat is sprung by means of the leaf spring at the front of the seat and the coil springs to the rear. Is that right?
SB
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
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Took me awhile, but now I've got it. Leave the sidecar (sociable in this case) frame rigid and give either the seat itself or the whole body suspension. If the plan is for a single seater then maybe spring just the seat. If there's a passenger allowed for than perhaps it is best to suspend the whole sidecar body. Something like snowmobile leaf springs or from a golf cart would be possible sources for salvaged springs. Something to be on the lookout for, eh?

And I think it would be you as the test driver and I will shoot the footage of you crashing into the ditch. Oh, wait! We've already done that I believe. Your first try with a sidecar ended up in the ditch and mine very nearly into a tree. Steering a sidecar is nothing like steering a two wheeled bike. Different creatures entirely. Maybe the sociable would be a little less crazy to get used to, but I'll bet it is still crazy. Go slow, stay upright. We'll need to have Annie and Ludwig give us old guys some tips on staying out of hospital.
SB
 
moto-klasika

moto-klasika

Member
Jan 12, 2013
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Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Ludwig II said:
What are your rules concerning infernal combustion engines? The UK regs on trikes and quads registered as mopeds permit non spark ignition engines up to 4kw output. One could conceivably use a diesel, or even a glowplug or hot bulb type motor.

Would you be permitted to run a charging motor for the batteries as a hybrid? Big horizontal flywheel, lazy hit and miss engine flunk flunk flunking away.

Just passing thoughts.
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[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Hello Ludwig,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]I am afraid that you and a few other here, should be right: if we use charging batteries by generator (engine and alternator) - during a ride: officials shouldn't accept it is electric-powered vehicle?
I think about even simpler version: direct power of electric-motor (like generator and electric tools) - without batteries at all. I would like to "cheat" with that system, but couldn't be sure for how long...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]
I will ask about technical issues of serial hybrid power on some other sub-forum here..
--- ---
Diesels are too expensive, but power of 4 Kilo-Watts is really great, even for serious and something heavier quadricycle (light quadricycle – moped due to EU Directives). To convert one spark-plug ICE into something different - quite interesting idea, but not very possible for me. I know a few guys that made small engines from scratch (good for human-carrying vehicles), but they had great experience, knowledge and tools... Hot-bulb engines would be really something extraordinary. I have to check what is Glow-plug engine... [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Ciao,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Zoran[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]P.S.: I checked them - it seems to me that they are similar to two-stroke diesel engines? I had experience with Trabant two-stroke engines (and some moped's and motorcycle's too), but I couldn't be sure in my possibilities to reconstruct one to work as diesel. However, I remember my old friend who was standing beside his Trabant and it was working without any cables connected to spark-plugs. He couldn't stop it, until put gear-box in the first speed, pull handbrake and released clutch..[/FONT]
 
Ludwig II

Ludwig II

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Jul 17, 2012
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That was probably hot carbon deposits inside the cylinder causing ignition of the mixture. A hot bulb engine, I think it would be possible to replace the plug with a hollow chamber containing wire coils which would remain hot while the engine was running, but would probably need 5 minutes with a blowlamp to start.

There was a clever Honda 2 stroke a few years ago that actually deliberately blew hot exhaust back into the barrel. The double cooking cleaned the emissions, I think, and the hot gas also replaced the spark plug. I think.

I'll see what I can find. A non spark engine may need a spark to start it, and then run happily just using the Honda system.
 
Ludwig II

Ludwig II

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From FB: Greg Bamber. "Love this. Built like a chopper and side car but with a VW transaxle and motor. Interesting and unique idea."

 
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moto-klasika

moto-klasika

Member
Jan 12, 2013
584
18
18
Bern (more) and Belgrade (less)
Ludwig II said:
That was probably hot carbon deposits inside the cylinder causing ignition of the mixture. A hot bulb engine, I think it would be possible to replace the plug with a hollow chamber containing wire coils which would remain hot while the engine was running, but would probably need 5 minutes with a blowlamp to start.

There was a clever Honda 2 stroke a few years ago that actually deliberately blew hot exhaust back into the barrel. The double cooking cleaned the emissions, I think, and the hot gas also replaced the spark plug. I think.

I'll see what I can find. A non spark engine may need a spark to start it, and then run happily just using the Honda system.
Click to expand...
------------------------------
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Ludwig,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Yes - that was answer! Carbon deposits were glued to top of pistons and fired, as often happened with two-stroke engines...

For all exotic engines, everything would be possible with a lot of experimenting... There could be found a lot of examples on internet and YouTube and many instructional schemes and explanations, from small table models to big industrial types. For sure that there could be made some of them good for light vehicle... [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]English guy (who else?) made practical Stirling-powered buggy...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Japanese (who else?) made competition for light vehicles powered by hot-air engines (Stirling engines), in spite that many thinks that they are not capable for practical use...
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]British (who else?) made competition for small boats powered by same engines. They are extremely big and complicated (expensive!), but fuel-efficient.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]The most problem with any of such DIY engine shall be its attesting for road use? However, I enjoy to study all of them... probably just good for winter day dreams?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Zoran[/FONT]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS5x91CZbtY
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osNluWPOpJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krGdCf6tJBY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRJg93nnzaU

[/FONT]​
 

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fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,467
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British Columbia Canada
The trouble is that when you look at what is allowed on motorized bicycles they always ban internal combustion engines or I.C.E. That quite cunningly bans diesel engines as well.

Steve.
 
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curtisfox

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Dec 29, 2008
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minesota
Oooooo that's very elegant, I like that.

For sure and i think it will be my pattern for swap meet buggy,some good three wheel trike wheels or the like. I think 2 wheels up front for softer ground. Thanks Lud........Curt
 
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fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
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British Columbia Canada
If you need a "Mobility scooter" what could be better than this to go from store to home and back. Let me see, I have square tubing, lots of wood strips, there's a rear end from bike camp this summer that Silverbear gave me and I have a spare fork somewhere.

Yep, it's doable.

Steve.
 
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curtisfox

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2008
6,067
4,026
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minesota
fasteddy said:
If you need a "Mobility scooter" what could be better than this to go from store to home and back. Let me see, I have square tubing, lots of wood strips, there's a rear end from bike camp this summer that Silverbear gave me and I have a spare fork somewhere.

Yep, it's doable.

Steve.
Click to expand...
Yep and i got some more of the lawn tractor hubs like i gave to Silverbear if you need them. ........Curt
 
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