Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Discussion in 'Board Trackers and Vintage Motorized Bicycles' started by indian22, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    I like them KOOOOOL!............Curt
     
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  2. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

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    Rick, the saddle bags look great. Curt is certainly correct, they are KOOOOOL.

    Steve.
     
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  3. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys. The bags utility swap between the hybrid & this is really important on the my mountain bike extending the range tremendously. I can see pedal assisted 120 miles per day cruises on the MB quite possible since I've been getting fifty miles on a single charge, with pedal assist, on the road with one of these 16 amp batteries. I typically save the batteries for ascents or when riding into the wind. 48 amps is a game changer for route planning on longer mountain bike rides.

    Rick C.
     
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  4. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    I re-enforced the bottom of each bag with a 1/8" thick layer of rubber & straps are heavy weight doubled leather belting with double leather washers on each side of every brass Chicago screw connection. I also re-enforced the bag inside with the same size strapping used on the outside, so each screw used on the bag has 1/2" of leather re-enforcement. I used some of the 1/8" rubber between the fasteners on the straps in place of leather, still 1/2" thick. It's pretty robust. Two batteries equal 14 pounds, bouncing across secondary roads, I wanted strength. The bags themselves aren't made of supple leather, but rather hard so I think they will wear & hold shape really well.

    Nice Fall day, but too wet to ride much and forecast for more. We need the moisture but I'd really have liked to ride the hybrid today.

    Rick C.
     
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  5. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    I've tried doing the head the hard way & it's just not the correct look. Neither was the easy way, though looked pretty good, so now I'll do it the harder way. It's not just a trial it's a lot of error as well.

    The concept is solid just not quite fleshed out yet. The good thing is this stage costs almost nothing the bad news is it's time and labor intensive and some of the things made are now scrap. I'll know it's right when I see it. Patience is golden!

    Rick C.
     
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  6. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    In working with this V-twin case I realized how simple it would be to dummy up a single cylinder early model Indian "Camel back" with a triangle frame using the rear leaning cylinder (as Hendee did) for seat post support and by doing so make a really authentic looking Indian1903 road e-bike or even a 1907 V-twin as a frame support member, still using the period correct Hendee V bicycle frame rather than the later loop style frame that came into vogue in 1909. Possibilities abound for period correct classic style builds of various famous early manufacturers using electrics without breaking the bank. Most people don't know that the early Indian's two large tubes mounted over and under the bikes down tube housed the bikes "electronics" The largest of these held dry cell batteries and the shorter tube the engines coil. A pretty sizeable lithium pack could be built and housed in the big tube and the controller in the other on a custom board. Or put the controller in a faux Camel back "fuel tank" and use both tubes for batteries.

    For those that love the belt drive a Harley "Silent grey fellow comes to mind" and an electric/belt drive would dang sure make that famous nick name even more appropriate when painted grey.

    Use a 2k or 3 k electric and even the top speed would be quite similar to the original road bikes of 1903-1906.

    I share, and hope a few will build, as I can't possibly hope to live long enough to tinker my way through all the projects I dream up. Just know the fake replicas (oxymoron) are certainly more difficult to build than a regular mid-drive electric and even more difficult to build than using non kit I.C.E.'s for a vintage style build. Very labor intensive.


    Rick C.
     
    #1926 indian22, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  7. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Be kool, use a 20” bike rim ( same size as Whizzer pulley, then serpentine belt. No stretching like leather. Like the idea...............Curt
     
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  8. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Well-Known Member

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  9. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

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    Rick, I was looking at Facebook and someone posted a early Harley engine running and I was looking at the one you are building. Perfect eye for detail indeed.

    Early Camel Back Indian with a faux motor would be a fun build. 1907 was the final year for Indians to have the camel back gas tank. They did have a round oil tank behind the engine that would hold a good sized battery I think or as you said the battery and coil tubes may be able to be built with a large enough tube to hold a series of bottle batteries or custom made ones.

    I believe that the camel gas tank could be enlarged width wise to hold a custom made battery. The ones I made are 3" at the top and 3-1/2 " at the fender as I recall. Width could be fudged a little to gain some room without ruining the lines of the tank.

    Steve.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw088LBD551DdwB6BDrvaYnY&ust=1574566431347287
     
    #1929 fasteddy, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  10. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Good input Steve & thanks.. The last couple of production years for the "Camel backs" did have that cylindric oil tank which could house batteries for sure, along with the fuel tank. For such a stark design the V frame Indians had a lot of places batteries can be housed today & still appear period correct.

    I seem to have a very nice Camel back tank & templates to derive measurements from or just mount but not use the tank as a battery box. Period style steel frames, forks, fenders, wheels and components abound for free or cheap. Cost to build could be held way down for crafting a really nice bike.

    I've not seen many accurate tribute bikes built around the Camel back V frame design, your tri-car being the most outstanding example. I don't understand why as they are lovely road style bikes and originals extremely rare.

    All this being said I need to concentrate on current projects, but I'd encourage others to consider building a pre-loop frame Indian, electric or I.C.E. tribute bike. That would be so koool!

    Rick C.
     
    #1930 indian22, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  11. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    No, KOOOOOOOOOOL! LOL
     
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  12. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    An excellent reply Rick, economic war is way cheaper than a military war.
    A book I read last year..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_China
     
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  13. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Tom the U.S of A has manipulated the foreign policy, primarily through our State Department, of other governments through economic coercion over the last 150 years. Learning many of the colonial era tactics used to great success during the reign of Great Britain over their empire. It took China this long to implement their own strong economic response due to it's relatively weak military position, but that paradigm has shifted as well. Neither China's trade nor military positions could have altered without a fundamental alteration of Marxist communist economic doctrine which we've seen implemented through purge post Mao. Radically differing economic theories on diametrically opposed tracks result in catastrophic collisions.

    Don't read this as me being anti-capitalist or pro socialist Tom, but rather examine it as a realist and match it with your own personal observations to both the non-revisionist and the revisionist versions of history. They are quite different. You'll find both hold certain veracities.

    I do agree that China poses world threats economically, politically, socially and militarily. I also agree with your summation that economic war is, at least initially, less costly than armed conflict, but unfortunately the one often leads to the other. World economics is world war!

    Rick C.
     
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  14. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    I ain't in this for the politics Rick, and it would appear we are both students of history at a world level, and the points you make coincide with mine. Read the book as this is Tavern talk. Easy to on our party line threads to wander a bit. You got a great thread going Rick, keep it rolling.
    Tom
     
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  15. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Looks as though I've a full day to work on the HD electric motor case tomorrow with beautiful day forecast and my schedule clear. Being retired one would think there would be more hobby time available yet that seems to not often be the case. The final design of head and cylinder is finalized; cylinder parts, their placement and attachment are now just a matter of execution. Translation planning's done doing's next.

    Rick C.
     
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  16. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    Are you going to use a Worksman Drop Loop frame?
    Tom
     
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  17. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    That
    Tom the Flyer frame would be a super option, the Worksman is far too small unless one expands the heck out of it. Even the Flyer might not be large enough to mount jack shaft & magneto without a stretch. It would sure be great if I can just buy a Flyer loop frame and use it without mods. My first choice. Of course I can build a frame, but won't unless forced to by dimensional requirements.

    I'm a ways off however from making a frame decision. I've really learned to appreciate several frame features that I've used on a few of my builds but not all four in one bike. 135mm rear width, minimum of 53" wheelbase and motor center of gravity below axle height. In order to include these three features in one classic style frame and have enough room for this motor and sufficient room to house & conceal the controller/batteries for up to 72v. 40 amps of power will likely require a custom frame configuration or at the least some modification. The fourth frame feature is the Marion/Keystone engine clip & it's a possibility which simplifies finding enough length to house the complete V-twin setup while retaining a pedal bracket and dropping engine height a few inches as I did with my HD "Peashooter" build. This is an authentic racing frame feature used by both Harley and Indian teams that also simplifies secure engine mounting on single tube frames in the early years as well as today. The engine drop also allows more vertical clearance inside the frame.

    So some things yet to be decided on the frame and I think Spring the earliest I'll try for starting the actual bike build.

    Rick C.
     
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  18. kelly dean

    kelly dean Active Member

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    that is cool !
     
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  19. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    Frame wise then you have time to see what Dan Orabona of Taylar Motorbikes/Antique Cycle can do.
    Tom
     
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  20. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Well-Known Member

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