Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

Discussion in 'Board Trackers and Vintage Motorized Bicycles' started by indian22, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tony that's the simple throttle I'm looking for & I'm thinking I can modify it to loo a hundred years older at the price I can screw up several in the process.

    My single speed reduction set up requires a freewheel to allow easy pedaling. Really nothing about this project is practical in this century except the electric power, but then the 1915 HD board bikes weren't practical for everyday riding even in 1915! My point in doing a replica is just in doing it. I've plenty of daily riders already, but after the novelty wears off I'll probably change the bike over to disc brakes and upgrade the controls as well. A couple of years from now who knows what will be available.

    Also regen braking is a great suggestion & with caution gives the feel of riding a 4 cycle bike with compression braking. Your caution is noted with using brake regen and a fully charged lithium pack. I might just try it without the freewheel, easy swap out to test.

    Rick C.
     
    #1961 indian22, Dec 10, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
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  2. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    This is going to be a bare bones board track frame and bike. No front brake just a coaster rear, my one concession for riding safety initially.
    I assume the highway patrol will escort your rides Rick;)
    Tom
     
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  3. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    One can only wonder Tom.

    Tear down, cutup & fit up yesterday. Drive side plate now welded securely to the cylinder base so internal case parts could be mocked up and so far so good. These two parts, drive side case plate & cylinder base bear all of the component weight until the opposite side plate is attached. When the motor case is bolted onto the frame loop; the electric motor's base mount rests on & will be secured to the frame with two U-bolts. The motor case will have two additional mounting lugs for mounting to the frame tubes mid crankcase. The cylinders will have a support bracket attached to the lower frame bar under the fuel tank. I'd think this a robust motor & drive platform.

    Both these e-motors pull air through the ends of their housing & this somewhat complicates the motor case design to permit cool air flow, but think I've got it going in the right direction.

    Rick C.
     
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  4. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    I've talked myself into using the 48 volt 2KW motor first and running a freewheel on the motor side. I can easily go to the 72 v. 3KW motor if I eventually add disc brakes.

    Photo of output side fixed case plate welded to cylinder baseplate. The motor actually protrudes through the large center hole for cool air and adjustable motor sprocket alignment. I'll fab a cover/ guard that will go over this that's open at the bottom for cooling.& to mount the primary chain spring tensioner.

    Rick C.

    e-twin static plate.jpg
     

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  5. MotoMagz

    MotoMagz Well-Known Member

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    It is really looking the part! Great work as usual....keep it going!!!
     
  6. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tom our weather has allowed me to get a lot done outdoors the last few days and today and tomorrow forecast is also good. I've been able to work on the current project a few hours as well in between chores. Next week it's supposed to be Winter, windy and wet.

    I've a set of 2.125" x 16" 12 ga. wheels with small Sturmey brake front and coaster rear. Black, double wall wheels that I could use on this electric and not detract from the look I'm after too much. Single coaster brake even at pedal bike speeds isn't at all reassuring, but I'll kick that can down the road.

    I laid out the motor mount pattern & cut out the case connecting center plates which will be welded to the large fixed outside case cover and cross bolted to the other side to allow access to the motor and jack shaft. These plates will be open on the bottom for air flow. All this seemed so simple just a few weeks ago. Putting the jack shaft inside the case and also keeping the internals accessable, while retaining a housing narrow and allowing for airflow, have complicated things; as has the interchangeable use of two motors of slightly different physical sizes. During the process I've saved space in the frame and improved the case to frame mounting design without having to sacrifice the vintage look or the ability to actually pedal the bike. All of it just fiddle and fix, alter, delete & add designing on the fly....which is time consuming & would never work inside a business model but is kinda' fun as a hobbyist that likes to tinker, toy and change his mind and the project on a whim.

    Rick C.
     
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  7. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    All of it just fiddle and fix, alter, delete & add designing on the fly....which is time consuming & would never work inside a business model but is kinda' fun as a hobbyist that likes to tinker, toy and change his mind and the project on a whim.
    Rick, when I worked with the MIT Masters he did just about the same. The company "was" a leader in reverse osmosis water purification. But lost the market because Mister Wizard could not commit to a design. I finally had to quit. You were lucky to be on the development side and payed.
    Tom
     
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  8. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Tom I really did have the best of it, but I felt sorry for the small startup companies that brought well designed and thought out projects to me, that translated well into completed prototypes & which tested well, but never saw the light of day commercially because of funding issues. Military projects were my bread and butter, followed by geophysical industry; no need to feel sorry for them. I'd think our project deadlines created enough stress to have killed me long ago. Government penalties on missed deadlines/non-performance are hefty. I actually retired from my company in 1990. Same thing with my "retirement enterprises", I tried doing nothing productive for a few years, just wasn't me at the time; no time to diddle just get it done. I really prefer actual retirement, working when and if I want for a couple of hours on whatever I like and all the while adjusting on the hover (much, much slower than on the fly) and just having fun while trying to follow doctor's orders. He told me to be good and have fun. I know how to do one or the other but not both.

    Rick C
     
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  9. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Mags I have the motor housing welded up with the exception of the three motor mount lugs. Cosmetics quite ugly at this point but do the work first... pretty comes later, once everything's in place I'll bead blast everything inside and out then paint and assemble.

    I decided to weld the large case side plates solid. Have you ever built a sailing ship inside a bottle? Getting the motor inside this case & easy removal afterwards was a similar problem as the motor & mount is much too large to fit through any of the case openings. Having one plate bolt on would have been the easier way....

    Rick C.

    e-twin full case.jpg
     
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  10. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    The small holes in the case are for the internal jack shaft surface bearing mounts and shaft output. The reduction sprockets & freewheel will be mounted outside the case, and under a primary chain guard. The final drive chain won't be covered by a guard.

    The case has a 11/8" channel cut lengthwise to allow the case to lower over the loop frame and rest on the e-motors base plates welded to the case. This allows the e-motor added support while lowering the engines COG 2" and allows the case to fit a Sportsman loop frame vertically and with zero alterations for the motor case. The bottom of the case also has an opening of 5"x4" for motor ventilation The basic case is 5" wide though the attachments like the mag gear cover on one side and the chain guards on the other add 3.5" to the total width. This width also includes the e-motors extension through the output side of the crank case 1/2" to allow air flow through the e-motors end case openings outside and inside the case as well. I won't require a wide bottom bracket shaft, but might need to slightly bend the pedal levers.

    I'll paint the main case and head "cast iron" grey while the cylinders will be flat stove black. The guards and cover plates brushed aluminum and satin black with brass accents. Copper tube oil and gas lines with brass fittings and period brass petcock. I'll also hit that chrome intake manifold with some dull from the bead blaster. All for contrast and not flash. Early photos reveal that these early race motors or road engines weren't the nickel plated, polished machines that many restorers have seen fit to apply on their work, but I guess bling is what some people want.

    I'll fabricate a composite early Harley carb with details from the later Schebler carb adopted by HD. With apologies to Jerry Reeves, "I've got a long way to go and a short time to get there", but unlike the Bandit I'm in no special hurry!

    Today turned off cold and windy so I'm just catching up on reading and posting a bit instead of building.

    Rick C.
     
    #1970 indian22, Dec 15, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
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  11. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    What's inside the case

    Rick C.

    a e-twin.jpg a e-twin 2.jpg
     
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  12. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    I decided to order parts to use on the fake HD/Schlebert carb after way too much research on the matter. A lot of history and intertwining of companies under one corporate banner such as Bendix involved in the Wheeler- Schlebert, Linkert carbs through the years including Borg Warner and Tillotson, and much commonality between a lot of the carb designs produced.

    I'll use a brass globe carb body design, similar to the photo & drawing included, with steel hemisphere float chamber, butterfly style throttle valve & choke with assorted brass adjustment screws and fuel line fittings for the copper tubing. The brass will not be painted.No design for the air cleaner at this point, but I do have the carb design fixed in mind. The many detailed fittings are a big part of making the engine look as though it could actually fire up!

    Rick C.


    Harley linkert carb.jpg Harley bendix carb diagram.jpg
     
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  13. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Here's a couple of different examples of well restored Harley F head motor on a board track bike. This engine well represents what was produced at the factory when new, not the polished and plated look that is sadly popular with most restorers & owners of these original vintage bikes. Paint was used over the majority cast metal parts, wire brushed case castings on some, while brass fittings were either left natural or nickel plated to protect the soft metal parts from wear. Very few areas of shiny.

    Notice the motor is offset to the right of center (pedal drive side) this gives frame clearance for the OHV rockers and for the forward spark plug. In addition the fuel tank was also relief notched on the right side of some early models for intake valve adjustment & service. The long carb body and air cleaner (when used) were mounted air intake side toward the left (motor drive output) side to avoid jutting well outside the cylinder profile, but some were mounted in reverse fashion.

    The original bikes were track & road warriors meant to be ridden on difficult road surfaces not mounted on museum display stands as art. Though I agree that the polished and better than perfect restorations are very beautiful, they lack authenticity in their perfection.

    Rick C.

    1917-Harley-Davidson-Model-17-T-Board-Track-Racer-8.jpg HARLEY-RACE-1920.jpg c1924-harley-davidson-1200cc-v-twin-board-track-racer-replica-motorcycle.jpg
     
    #1973 indian22, Dec 16, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
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  14. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    I have a carb from a 1960ish XLCH that one of our members of the Wheels of Fortune MC gave me. His name was Dick Herb, he put a Weber on his Sporty and got a lot of exercise getting it to light. But Dick sees I am a builder and all he wanted was a performance upgrade.
    Some of the Wheels of Fortune MC are long dead. We incorporated as a nonprofit corp. just to bust the then in existence newly enacted Helmet Law in Illinios.
    There is more to this story, but I have a Harley carb if you want it.
    Tom.
     
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  15. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tom I sincerely appreciate the kind offer & the club background. I have a carb from a shovelhead and another off a panhead both FUBAR for rebuild but have parts so I keep them in storage....just in case. Both are too large though for my motor case, but I would enjoy some more club history.

    Rick C.
     
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  16. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    I would enjoy some more club history.
    I will wrack my brain for what I know Rick, It will take a bit.

    Coping with getting my Wife into remission is mission #1.
    Tom
     
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  17. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Understood Tom. May your burden's feel light, though great they be, a labor of love is priceless you see. We used to say, "A good mission is one that accounts for all." I'm certain you're doing everything possible and will continue steadfastly.

    Rick C.
     
  18. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    I weighed all the components this a.m. & was surprised & elated... 51 lbs. which includes a 10% tack on 'cause it's not completed with fasteners and such. I actually think it will come in just under 50 lbs. This was with the 2K motor the 3K is 4 lbs. heavier. The 48v. pack or the 52v. are under 14 lbs. including controller. Of course the battery weight with a 70v. will be greater. With my 170 lb. mounted I'd think the 2,000 watt at 52 volt sufficient for my first go with this project. My fat ugly 1KW 48v. is fun & is good to 28 mph or so double that with an extra 850 rpm at the output shaft (the weights of the two bikes about 20 lbs. difference) and I'd surmise the V-twin electric to be kinda' lively around town.

    I've come to grips with most of the dimensional issues and placement. Now it's about precise alignment, adjustment and ease of routine service access. Then clean up and apply finish. I'd say I'm close but been here and said that before...

    Rick C.
     
    #1978 indian22, Dec 18, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
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  19. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    Very well spoken Rick, I am accessing memory banks as I write.
     
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  20. lewdog7431

    lewdog7431 Active Member

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    Wow hella reviews, as a younger man in this world of bicycle motor's I've just recently picked up this life style last year and in the past 12 months I've learned so much about m.b. that I've rearranged my life around them I've beenreading your guys stories and I enjoy learning new all the time, here in California san Jose to be accurate it is a mad house for driving anything especially bicycles way dangerous these people will hit you and drive away just to get ahead in traffic with out breaking, real talk, it's crazy riding my bike and keeping up with traffic on the Express way at first with no helmet.psycho. but I got a full DOT brain bucket with face shield ment for riding for real ,so now it's a helmet some shots and wide open throttle ,I enjoy seeing the looks of people's faces as I pass them up and cut on in traffic on my bicycle motorized, **** yea dangerous but necessary ,although I do not ride the freeway way too psycho for bicycling but who knows what I'll do next, truthfully I don't plan on going back to pedaling ever if I can help it and I love this so much better..........lewdog
     

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