Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

GoldenMotor.com

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,734
7,740
113
Oklahoma
Thanks guys. The bags utility swap between the hybrid & this is really important on the my mountain bike extending the range tremendously. I can see pedal assisted 120 miles per day cruises on the MB quite possible since I've been getting fifty miles on a single charge, with pedal assist, on the road with one of these 16 amp batteries. I typically save the batteries for ascents or when riding into the wind. 48 amps is a game changer for route planning on longer mountain bike rides.

Rick C.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony01 and fasteddy

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,734
7,740
113
Oklahoma
I re-enforced the bottom of each bag with a 1/8" thick layer of rubber & straps are heavy weight doubled leather belting with double leather washers on each side of every brass Chicago screw connection. I also re-enforced the bag inside with the same size strapping used on the outside, so each screw used on the bag has 1/2" of leather re-enforcement. I used some of the 1/8" rubber between the fasteners on the straps in place of leather, still 1/2" thick. It's pretty robust. Two batteries equal 14 pounds, bouncing across secondary roads, I wanted strength. The bags themselves aren't made of supple leather, but rather hard so I think they will wear & hold shape really well.

Nice Fall day, but too wet to ride much and forecast for more. We need the moisture but I'd really have liked to ride the hybrid today.

Rick C.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fasteddy

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,734
7,740
113
Oklahoma
I've tried doing the head the hard way & it's just not the correct look. Neither was the easy way, though looked pretty good, so now I'll do it the harder way. It's not just a trial it's a lot of error as well.

The concept is solid just not quite fleshed out yet. The good thing is this stage costs almost nothing the bad news is it's time and labor intensive and some of the things made are now scrap. I'll know it's right when I see it. Patience is golden!

Rick C.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fasteddy

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,734
7,740
113
Oklahoma
In working with this V-twin case I realized how simple it would be to dummy up a single cylinder early model Indian "Camel back" with a triangle frame using the rear leaning cylinder (as Hendee did) for seat post support and by doing so make a really authentic looking Indian1903 road e-bike or even a 1907 V-twin as a frame support member, still using the period correct Hendee V bicycle frame rather than the later loop style frame that came into vogue in 1909. Possibilities abound for period correct classic style builds of various famous early manufacturers using electrics without breaking the bank. Most people don't know that the early Indian's two large tubes mounted over and under the bikes down tube housed the bikes "electronics" The largest of these held dry cell batteries and the shorter tube the engines coil. A pretty sizeable lithium pack could be built and housed in the big tube and the controller in the other on a custom board. Or put the controller in a faux Camel back "fuel tank" and use both tubes for batteries.

For those that love the belt drive a Harley "Silent grey fellow comes to mind" and an electric/belt drive would dang sure make that famous nick name even more appropriate when painted grey.

Use a 2k or 3 k electric and even the top speed would be quite similar to the original road bikes of 1903-1906.

I share, and hope a few will build, as I can't possibly hope to live long enough to tinker my way through all the projects I dream up. Just know the fake replicas (oxymoron) are certainly more difficult to build than a regular mid-drive electric and even more difficult to build than using non kit I.C.E.'s for a vintage style build. Very labor intensive.


Rick C.
 
Last edited:

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,470
4,954
113
British Columbia Canada
Rick, I was looking at Facebook and someone posted a early Harley engine running and I was looking at the one you are building. Perfect eye for detail indeed.

Early Camel Back Indian with a faux motor would be a fun build. 1907 was the final year for Indians to have the camel back gas tank. They did have a round oil tank behind the engine that would hold a good sized battery I think or as you said the battery and coil tubes may be able to be built with a large enough tube to hold a series of bottle batteries or custom made ones.

I believe that the camel gas tank could be enlarged width wise to hold a custom made battery. The ones I made are 3" at the top and 3-1/2 " at the fender as I recall. Width could be fudged a little to gain some room without ruining the lines of the tank.

Steve.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw088LBD551DdwB6BDrvaYnY&ust=1574566431347287
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: indian22

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,734
7,740
113
Oklahoma
Good input Steve & thanks.. The last couple of production years for the "Camel backs" did have that cylindric oil tank which could house batteries for sure, along with the fuel tank. For such a stark design the V frame Indians had a lot of places batteries can be housed today & still appear period correct.

I seem to have a very nice Camel back tank & templates to derive measurements from or just mount but not use the tank as a battery box. Period style steel frames, forks, fenders, wheels and components abound for free or cheap. Cost to build could be held way down for crafting a really nice bike.

I've not seen many accurate tribute bikes built around the Camel back V frame design, your tri-car being the most outstanding example. I don't understand why as they are lovely road style bikes and originals extremely rare.

All this being said I need to concentrate on current projects, but I'd encourage others to consider building a pre-loop frame Indian, electric or I.C.E. tribute bike. That would be so koool!

Rick C.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: fasteddy

curtisfox

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2008
6,077
4,042
113
minesota
Good input Steve & thanks.. The last couple of production years for the "Camel backs" did have that cylindric oil tank which could house batteries for sure, along with the fuel tank. For such a stark design the V frame Indians had a lot of places batteries can be housed today & still appear period correct.

I seem to have a very nice Camel back tank & templates to derive measurements from or just mount but not use the tank as a battery box. Period style steel frames, forks, fenders, wheels and components abound for free or cheap. Cost to build could be held way down for crafting a really nice bike.

I've not seen many accurate tribute bikes built around the Camel back V frame design, your tri-car being the most outstanding example. I don't understand why as they are lovely road style bikes and originals extremely rare.

All this being said I need to concentrate on current projects, but I'd encourage others to consider building a pre-loop frame Indian, electric or I.C.E. tribute bike. That would be so koool!

Rick C.
No, KOOOOOOOOOOL! LOL
 

Tom from Rubicon

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2016
2,840
6,128
113
Rubicon, Wisconsin
Dogcatcher I'd be flattered if they are and surprised if they're not.

Business is more akin to warfare than to gaming in many countries. In 1978 I took a working prototype and exacting performance parameters to South Korea for bid which included the final production design, product testing, quality control, warranty assurance etc. In ten days time they returned an initial bid package that was 50% under our best minimum bid estimate and 20% under the nearest competitive bid's final number. We negotiated with them for over a month & received an addition 15% off in ancillary costs involved in shipping, insurance and any extraordinary delivery delays. It was a dramatic business experience for me and quite profitable, but in subsequent business dealings I learned a lot about their manufacturing capabilities and resolve. I now believe they could have turned a nice profit at 15% less than was actually paid per piece. I'm certain they felt they had screwed me hard. This was a major Korean company with state of the art design and production capabilities that I'd never before seen anywhere.
Fast forward to today and real quality enhanced production has spread throughout the Orient. If we can dream it they can build it for less.

I've heard talk of Oriental junk (some was and is) since the fifties and I still hear it and read posts on this forum that repeat it, but don't think they can't and won't build quality products and do when we are willing to pay a little extra for that quality and yes they will steal your dreams before you even go to sleep...this is war to them, not a game. We laughed when first Honda then Suzuki etc. started importing this "made in Japan junk", but price, styling, performance and dependability shut down, those who couldn't & wouldn't compete; mighty U.S. and European cycle manufacturers out of the business in less than ten years.

I'd hope we would learn from the past, but it's easier to rest on our ancestry's laurels. The bottom line is if the Chinese ever do manufacture classic style motor housings they will be much less expensive and more readily available for those that want the look of classic and the sound of silence on their e-bikes. Ride on and have fun!

Rick C.
An excellent reply Rick, economic war is way cheaper than a military war.
A book I read last year..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_China
 

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,734
7,740
113
Oklahoma
Tom the U.S of A has manipulated the foreign policy, primarily through our State Department, of other governments through economic coercion over the last 150 years. Learning many of the colonial era tactics used to great success during the reign of Great Britain over their empire. It took China this long to implement their own strong economic response due to it's relatively weak military position, but that paradigm has shifted as well. Neither China's trade nor military positions could have altered without a fundamental alteration of Marxist communist economic doctrine which we've seen implemented through purge post Mao. Radically differing economic theories on diametrically opposed tracks result in catastrophic collisions.

Don't read this as me being anti-capitalist or pro socialist Tom, but rather examine it as a realist and match it with your own personal observations to both the non-revisionist and the revisionist versions of history. They are quite different. You'll find both hold certain veracities.

I do agree that China poses world threats economically, politically, socially and militarily. I also agree with your summation that economic war is, at least initially, less costly than armed conflict, but unfortunately the one often leads to the other. World economics is world war!

Rick C.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fasteddy

Tom from Rubicon

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2016
2,840
6,128
113
Rubicon, Wisconsin
I ain't in this for the politics Rick, and it would appear we are both students of history at a world level, and the points you make coincide with mine. Read the book as this is Tavern talk. Easy to on our party line threads to wander a bit. You got a great thread going Rick, keep it rolling.
Tom
 

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,734
7,740
113
Oklahoma
Looks as though I've a full day to work on the HD electric motor case tomorrow with beautiful day forecast and my schedule clear. Being retired one would think there would be more hobby time available yet that seems to not often be the case. The final design of head and cylinder is finalized; cylinder parts, their placement and attachment are now just a matter of execution. Translation planning's done doing's next.

Rick C.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fasteddy

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,734
7,740
113
Oklahoma
That
Are you going to use a Worksman Drop Loop frame?
Tom
Tom the Flyer frame would be a super option, the Worksman is far too small unless one expands the heck out of it. Even the Flyer might not be large enough to mount jack shaft & magneto without a stretch. It would sure be great if I can just buy a Flyer loop frame and use it without mods. My first choice. Of course I can build a frame, but won't unless forced to by dimensional requirements.

I'm a ways off however from making a frame decision. I've really learned to appreciate several frame features that I've used on a few of my builds but not all four in one bike. 135mm rear width, minimum of 53" wheelbase and motor center of gravity below axle height. In order to include these three features in one classic style frame and have enough room for this motor and sufficient room to house & conceal the controller/batteries for up to 72v. 40 amps of power will likely require a custom frame configuration or at the least some modification. The fourth frame feature is the Marion/Keystone engine clip & it's a possibility which simplifies finding enough length to house the complete V-twin setup while retaining a pedal bracket and dropping engine height a few inches as I did with my HD "Peashooter" build. This is an authentic racing frame feature used by both Harley and Indian teams that also simplifies secure engine mounting on single tube frames in the early years as well as today. The engine drop also allows more vertical clearance inside the frame.

So some things yet to be decided on the frame and I think Spring the earliest I'll try for starting the actual bike build.

Rick C.
 

kelly dean

Active Member
Oct 3, 2019
139
178
43
64
kentucky
I finished the saddle bag straps today and mounted them on the hybrid. That's three 36 v. packs 48 amp total, 23 lbs. of battery shown. There's room for two more mounted one between the seat tube and rear tire & one more mounted on the rack, but that would be for a longer trip than I'm ready to take just now. For daily use in the area one bag will carry repair and roadside kit, tools, CO2, tube and stuff that might be required on shorter rides.

Rick C.

View attachment 102902 View attachment 102903
that is cool !