New vari speed tranny build

[WayneC]

Howdy,

I don't know about shock dis-assembly but be careful. I understand ya can really get hit if it unloads the wrong way. Another thought on springs, although there shouldn't be any shortage of them, if you know approximately how much pull you need try and locate valve springs as they are measured by their lbs. of force. I remember when I was a kid my dad brought home a valve spring from a Catepiller tractor. It fit my seat post perfectly as well as my weight at the time. I was the only kid in town with a shock absorbing seat post. 50 years later they're commonplace.
Good luck.
WC

 

[wayne z]

Wohoo! I finaly got around to tweaking the spring pressure until it was strong enough to keep the rear belt from slipping with full throttle.
First I tried A set of Continental inner and outer valve springs , about 60 lbs to compress, not enough.
I then went with a spring from a bike shock, and this did it. About 120 lbs to compress.

Too stiff of control now to use a clutch lever and cable. I put a temp. pull handle (beer bottle openerLOL) under the nut that holds the rear belt's idler. Wasn't too hard to pull it into low. Pulls in way easier with a little throttle applied.

Now I can hold it in low, wind it up, and let go to high with full throttle applied, and it sounds and feels the way an automatic trans shifts.


I'm gonna fab a jockey shift to the left of the tank and a gate designed so that I can pull back and latch it in low, and be able to slap the shifter with the inside of my leg to knock it out the gate so that it will jump to high range without taking my hand off the bars.

To be continued...

 

[cannonball2]

Congrats on perserverence Wayne! I knew you wouldnt let it a lone til it worked. What about a good friction lock on the shifter for multiple/infinate ratios?

 

[wayne z]

Congrats on perserverence Wayne! I knew you wouldnt let it a lone til it worked. What about a good friction lock on the shifter for multiple/infinate ratios?

I don't think that I need the infinite ratios. Might experiment with a friction lock though. The Preddy's got enough torque that it realy takes off fine with just high gear. Not a very large spread in ratios from low to high anyways.
So going with low/high with a jockey slap shifter that can be shifted to high if I want by slapping it with my knee will be easy, simple and safe .

 

[KCvale]

Cool Wayne, it sounds like you are having fun ;-}

 

[motorhedfred]

*bump* What's your overall impression of the HF 99cc with torque multiplication. Do you feel it's needed ? I've been wondering if you changed you final drive ratio with a bigger drive pulley, would that allow you to keep your revs lower at cruising speed without losing acceleration from a stop ?

You've said before you didn't feel the engine needed torque multiplication to work on a bicycle, but keeping the revs lower while cruising would keep things quieter, cooler, more fuel efficient.

MHF

 

[wayne z]

Hey MHF. It's true.Here's what I have learned from playing around with my vari's ratrios.
I weigh 190lbs and the huffy/Preddy weighs 70 lbs.
The torquey little 99cc takes off quite briskly with a 10:1 ratio, and allows a nice relaxed cruise at around 30 mph, with about 38-40 at the top, depending on how hard ya want to rev it. It will easily take a taller ratio, like 9:1 and reach about 45mph and not sacrifice take off performance down to the sluggish level.
Really no need for variable multiplication at all. Especialy if rural or urban use. These cent. clutches are designed for a lotta slipping to simulate a hydraulic torque converter similar to an automobile.
If used in a predominatly metropolis or hilly setting, the variable range or some way to easily change ratios would be better on the clutch but not absolutly neccesary.

 

[motorhedfred]

So this might be just the thing for a smaller engine, say a HS50 or GX25/35/50 then.

An HF 99cc on a bicycle is like a milder version of E.J. Potter the "Michigan Madman's" motorcycles, overpowered and no transmission.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/05/08/ej-potter-michigan-madman/

MHF

 

[silverbear]

That's interesting, Wayne. I'm beginning to think this Predator 99 is a real winner. I like mine very much and can see using it again. Nice low end power and plenty of cruising speed.

In looking over the AGK site I see a lot of upgrade parts available for the 212cc Predator. Maybe in time more will be available for the 99cc for those who would like to soup it up a little. But even as it is, the 99 is a lot of motor for a little price.

Another plus is that without frame modification it will fit into a cantilever frame cruiser and I was happy to discover it fits my Panther straight bar frame. That opens up a lot of possibilities for those who do not want to alter their frames, but want a little more motor.
Without some serious upgrades to brakes, tires, suspension, etc. I think the 212 is too much motor for a bike unless you are a very accomplished builder and can effectively make your bicycle into a light motorcycle. The 99 is for the rest of us. Just right, I think.
SB

 

[wayne z]

OK, update on my vari-tranny project. I got around to working out the linkage and a clamp on jockey shifter. Had some nice rod end bearings left over from my airplane building days that came in handy.

I put about 10 miles on it today. This thing is definatly a hill climber in low range.

I might add a second gate in the shifter, because the very steep hills I encountered only needed the shifter moved about 1/2 way between low and high.
Here's a kinda crude clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpHxy1rcqBk&feature=youtu.be

 

[silverbear]

Wayne, that works great! I want one!
SB

 

[rustycase]

Really impressive torque in the vid, Wayne!
Gosh, it just gets up and goes!!!
The shift is real clean, too!

lol
I ain't gonna give u NO points for the shifter lever, though...
You might as well have used a bayonet!

Never can tell when there's gonna be a prob when riding a cycle...

Good luck!
rc

 

[wayne z]

Yeah, I'm gonna refine all the details now that I know that it works LOL. I got a big ol skullhead knob goin there. My luck, If I built it all nice and detailed at first, it wouldn't have worked and the time detailing it would be wasted.

Here's a short clip showing the shift linkage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmOY7YTI55Q&feature=youtu.be

 

[killercanuck]

Badass. \,,/

 

[silverbear]

Wayne,
I just read through this thread once more and like your results so much. I recently upgraded my 50 Panther from a Hua Sheng 50cc to the 99 Predator hoping it would do the trick here in the mountains of north central Maryland. It is better, but some of these grades are long and wicked steep, enough so that I have to pick and choose which ones I can ascend without pedaling or getting off and pushing the bike. Your variable speed setup looks like the answer.

I'm not as mechanically informed or as talented as you, but I can follow the leads of others and specific how to's. It is interesting trying to follow your thought process in this thread, but for someone like me it is also sometimes confusing. For the benefit of those of us who would so much like to follow your lead, but are pretty far behind in your level of knowledge, could you do kind of a summary of what you did and what you used in the final version? In other words, leaving out the wrong turns and just giving the right ones?

I think you deserve recognition for what you've accomplished here and your contribution to motor bicycling. "The Z Variable Speed Transmission" or something like that. If you made a kit for sale no doubt there would be buyers. I know there are a lot of hassles, headaches and money concerns in manufacturing something for general consumption which would probably take all the fun out of it for you. Short of that, a set of instructions and a template of the transmission plate in the form of a booklet for sale would be welcomed by many. Just a thought.

Not everybody needs a variable speed transmission, but for those of us who do, your solution would be just the ticket. Thank you, sir.
SB

 

[curtisfox]

I agree with SB This is awesome. See as yours has so much getup and go maybe it is not nessesery to have a bigger engine 50'cc is max here and with the veri drive it would do good.
What bike shock did you use the standerd Mountain bike size?650lbs I think

 

[rustycase]

I haven't seen recent pictures, W...
Do you still have the plexiglass cover on it?
I liked that!
rc

 

[wayne z]

I agree with SB This is awesome. See as yours has so much getup and go maybe it is not nessesery to have a bigger engine 50'cc is max here and with the veri drive it would do good.
What bike shock did you use the standerd Mountain bike size?650lbs I think

I used the spring from a rear mono shock off a childs big wheel. This spring is slighty longer and thicker than the shocks on my Mongoose. The average mongoose size shock spring will work. I have this heavier spring not nearly as stiff as it could be at about 1/3rd cpmpressed

 

[wayne z]

I haven't seen recent pictures, W...
Do you still have the plexiglass cover on it?
I liked that!
rc

You're thinking about my 2 speed Friction drive build. This is a different build.

 

[wayne z]

Wayne,
I just read through this thread once more and like your results so much. I recently upgraded my 50 Panther from a Hua Sheng 50cc to the 99 Predator hoping it would do the trick here in the mountains of north central Maryland. It is better, but some of these grades are long and wicked steep, enough so that I have to pick and choose which ones I can ascend without pedaling or getting off and pushing the bike. Your variable speed setup looks like the answer.

I'm not as mechanically informed or as talented as you, but I can follow the leads of others and specific how to's. It is interesting trying to follow your thought process in this thread, but for someone like me it is also sometimes confusing. For the benefit of those of us who would so much like to follow your lead, but are pretty far behind in your level of knowledge, could you do kind of a summary of what you did and what you used in the final version? In other words, leaving out the wrong turns and just giving the right ones?

I think you deserve recognition for what you've accomplished here and your contribution to motor bicycling. "The Z Variable Speed Transmission" or something like that. If you made a kit for sale no doubt there would be buyers. I know there are a lot of hassles, headaches and money concerns in manufacturing something for general consumption which would probably take all the fun out of it for you. Short of that, a set of instructions and a template of the transmission plate in the form of a booklet for sale would be welcomed by many. Just a thought.

Not everybody needs a variable speed transmission, but for those of us who do, your solution would be just the ticket. Thank you, sir.
SB

Yes, I might consider writing an instruction book and producing some drawings.
I'm prolly gonna build another one like this. Bro in law wants a motorized bicycle with a reliable transmission. I will take photos of each step and build the booklet around those.