New vari speed tranny build

GoldenMotor.com

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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OK, Here's another short demo clip for those worried about my naked shift lever, got it covered with what else, a Huffy grip LOL

This thing rocks! The drive train is so smooth and quiet with all belts .

I swear, this thing is so fast! 0 to 35 in about 15 seconds, why would anyone EVER need a bigger motor than this on a bicycle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_5JZVt2rFw&list=HL1333163818&feature=mh_lolz
 
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silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
OK, Here's another short demo clip for those worried about my naked shift lever, got it covered with what else, a Huffy grip LOL

This thing rocks! The drive train is so smooth and quiet with all belts .

I swear, this thing is so fast! 0 to 35 in about 15 seconds, why would anyone EVER need a bigger motor than this on a bicycle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_5JZVt2rFw&list=HL1333163818&feature=mh_lolz
I agree, Wayne.
I think the 99 is plenty of motor for a bicycle. I just spent an hour and a half or so re-reading this thread, copying and pasting pertinent information into a folder for reference. The coaster brake hub died on my Panther today, so this bumps the re-build of the Panther forward some. Working up my purchase list, etc. Front hub is a Worksman drum brake and in back will be a nice big Atom drum from a moped I've had sitting around. Suzuki hydraulic fork. The Billy Goat hills where I live in the winter ate up the cheesy Chinese coaster brake hub I've been abusing. More power equals better brakes.

Is your shift lever gated or does it stay in position once there?
SB
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
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Gosh Wayne, it sounds to me like it would pull another gear!
Plenty of power to spare.

BTW, I been lookin' at some leleu drum brakes and just not overly impressed. I dunno if they got other models than what I saw, but they were far heavier construction than we need on bicycles, and they were only a single leading shoe design with a simple flat cam driving both shoes from one end. Probably bullet-proof, though.

And the wheel used loose balls...

Best
rc
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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Thanks guys. I plan on some better video real soon.

SB, The shifter is gated, sorta. The spring tension of the vari-pully is quite stiff, and want to close the pullies and reach high speed ratio.
I have the shift lever mounted on a spring loaded pivot(lawnmower axle bolt) with a strong spring and flatwashers that allows the lever to be moved sideways on it's pivot bolt, and the spring pressure snaps it back vertical in that plane when sidewards pressure is stopped.

Couple inches below the spring loaded pivot, is a ramped spur that simulates a gate. When you pull the lever back to compress the vari- pully, the shift lever( bar from a cheap wood clamp) rides this ramped spur and snaps over and locks the lever in low gear.
To shift to high, you slap the lever to the right to unlock the gate, and the strong vari- pully spring pulls the linkage and flips the lever foreward.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
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Wayne,
Here's what I've come up with that I don't already have on hand. (I have the engine and it is mounted in a 1950 Schwinn Panther).
Comet double pulley clutch (109.00)
Variable sheave (65.00)
Whizzer sheave (65.00) although I may make my own sheave from a bicycle wheel.
Bearings (15.00)
jackshaft (24.00)
The above come to a total of $279.00
I have aluminum plate, so am not counting that.
Not accounted for is the idler.

You mentioned the source for the Comet clutch.
McMaster Carr is where you ordered the variable sheave.
Where did the bearings, jackshaft and idler come from?

Could any of you who understand the transfer of power go through it from beginning to end? The double pulley Comet clutch is mounted to the engine shaft. What happens from there on? I don't even understand why two pulleys are required on the Comet Clutch.

Many thanks you guys. I'm slow with all this, but once I get it then it's mine and I can go from there. I've got more re-reading to do before I get this clear in my head. Things are harder for me since I was hit by lightning in 1995 and suffered a traumatic brain injury. That's my excuse for being slow with some of this. I also don't understand how the variable sheave works.

What I do know is that what I see and hear in the video is what I want for my bike. Any help I can get from where I am to where I want to go is much appreciated.
SB
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
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louisiana
Wayne,
Here's what I've come up with that I don't already have on hand. (I have the engine and it is mounted in a 1950 Schwinn Panther).
Comet double pulley clutch (109.00)
Variable sheave (65.00)
Whizzer sheave (65.00) although I may make my own sheave from a bicycle wheel.
Bearings (15.00)
jackshaft (24.00)
The above come to a total of $279.00
I have aluminum plate, so am not counting that.
Not accounted for is the idler.

You mentioned the source for the Comet clutch.
McMaster Carr is where you ordered the variable sheave.
Where did the bearings, jackshaft and idler come from?

Could any of you who understand the transfer of power go through it from beginning to end? The double pulley Comet clutch is mounted to the engine shaft. What happens from there on? I don't even understand why two pulleys are required on the Comet Clutch.

Many thanks you guys. I'm slow with all this, but once I get it then it's mine and I can go from there. I've got more re-reading to do before I get this clear in my head. Things are harder for me since I was hit by lightning in 1995 and suffered a traumatic brain injury. That's my excuse for being slow with some of this. I also don't understand how the variable sheave works.

What I do know is that what I see and hear in the video is what I want for my bike. Any help I can get from where I am to where I want to go is much appreciated.
SB
Hey SB. I already had the comet clutch. I like it because it has a smaller pully than a Maxtorque, allowing use of a smaller driven pully on the jackshaft, to keep the transfer case physicaly smaller. It is a standard oem part for mowers ect and they come with 2 sheaves.you only use one belt on it though for this application. The 2 sheave clutch has a much longer bushing than a single sheave, and will last much longer.
Maxtorque would work,but I'm using a 2:1 ratio on the primary and that would be a 6.5" pully on the jack with the MT. With the Comet, I'm using a 5" on the jackshaft. Good thing about a MT clutch is they can be had with sealed needle bearings.

I bought the bearings off Ebay. they have a snap ring on their OD, and 2 setscrews for the ID. I bought the keyed shaft from a kart co. on Ebay but Mc Masters has it too. I tried to find the 3/4 bearings there but had trouble navigating to them without a part #.

So, The Comet clutch drives a 5" pully on the jackshaft. There's am adjustable 2" idler between and below the pullies for belt adjudtment.
I made the jackshaft long enough to stick put of the varipully to be able to mount the bike shock spring on the end. The shaft is internaly threaded to accept a 3/8" threaded rod that is used to retain abn adjust the spring. I used a Continental aircraft engine valve spring retainer washer on the end of the spring to bear the adjustment nuts against.

I made a cup like adaptor on the lathe from a 1.5" pipe cap,, with a hole in it to slip over the shaft and fit where the original pully spring was. It wasn't quite deep enough for internal clearence so I added a couple of big machine spacer washers(1.5 idx2.25od) before installing the cup The new spring bears against this.

The control idler is mounted on a piece of 1" sq tubing, and it swivels on a mower axle bolt,bushing attached to the lower rear plate area.
I'll take some more close-up detail pics for you later.

The shifter lever needs to be kinda long as I have it, because it takes about 25 lbs force to pull it back and lock it to compress the pully spring an make the vari pully spread apart to reach low gear. When the shiftlever is moved to the side, the gate unlstches and the spring pressure throws the lever foreward as the pully closes together for high gear.
On my next one, I might try mounting the shift lever on the trans case with the lever more horizontal as a jokjey shift rather than the tank shifter.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Wayne,
Thanks for explaining things. The double pulley threw me there. It would be nice if there was a way to run a belt off that other pulley to power a small generator or alternator for lights and horn. I see that the single pulley Comet isn't all that much cheaper than the double pulley, so might as well go with the one that will last. It might be worth my checking a few lawn mower shops for a used one. You never know. My build probably won't get done until fall or early winter, but I'll start on small non money things soon and add parts through the summer. Next up is making an in frame gas tank out of steel and an exhaust modeled after yours on this thread. I bought a used 3/4" pipe bender for $5.00 on ebay ($12.50 with shipping) and picked up a three foot section of black water pipe for a handle today for $8.00, so now I can bend the conduit. I picked up the other hardware for it last week. So thanks for the exhaust tips, too.

How the transfer of power works is getting clearer. Seeing the bike live would help a lot. I imagine your pictures later on with clarify things a good bit.

As Curtis mentioned, Mike Simpson has the rear sheave for $39.00 which is pretty reasonable I think. Hardly worth making my own from a bicycle wheel for that price.
SB
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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OK, a little update on my R&D with this tranny. I used tape markers on the tire and clutch bell, and a roll test and came up with 10.75:1 total ratio in high range. That's giving me 4500rpm at 30 mph and the motor will run comfortably at this speed for as long as you can stand, but for me, out in the boonies, I need a little taller gearing. Right now, I can climb the steepest hills here(very steep) very easily in high gear.

I saw 38 mph and 6000 rpm once on the tach and speedo, but I was scared LOL and won't rev it that high again.
So I have a 2:1 ratio on the primary now, and I think I will change to a 4.5" pully from the 5" to give me a lil taller ratio with 38 mph at 5000

Hey SB, if you haven't bought a clutch yet, I would suggest getting the Maxtorque clutch with the roller bearings. It has a 3.2" pully, and you could mate it to a 6" on the jackshaft to get nearly the same speeds as above.

Best part is it's cheaper than the Comet, not to mention the low maintenance and better quality with the bearings.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Yes, that is good to know. And no, I haven't bought anything yet. Right now I'm helping Tinsmith make an in frame gas tank for the Panther and using your exhaust as a guide made up a custom exhaust manifold and welded a pipe street el to it for a 3/4" conduit exhaust pipe. My rear wheel blew out the hub a week ago so I have another ordered for immediate use. I'll use the spokes from this dead one to build a wheel using an Atom drum brake moped hub with an old Schwinn rim. I want to build that wheel with a sheave for the belt drive and have that ready, get the other parts purchased and when I have everything I need then make the change from my present setup to the variable transmission. I've used the Max Torque with Qmatic transmission on a couple of bikes and it seems like a nice clutch. Happy to save money whenever I can, so thanks for the heads up.
SB
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Wayne said, "Hey SB, if you haven't bought a clutch yet, I would suggest getting the Maxtorque clutch with the roller bearings. It has a 3.2" pully, and you could mate it to a 6" on the jackshaft to get nearly the same speeds as above.

Best part is it's cheaper than the Comet, not to mention the low maintenance and better quality with the bearings."

The Max Torque clutches I've been looking at don't have roller bearings from what I can see. Is this the clutch you're talking about? I found it here and one other place for $54.61 including shipping. http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=uDGGT_vRFoT0ggf_hPi1Bw&ved=0CDwQ8wIwAg
I think this is the same clutch used in the Qmatic transmission. and has the 3.2" pulley.
Good price if this is the right one.
SB
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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Wayne said, "Hey SB, if you haven't bought a clutch yet, I would suggest getting the Maxtorque clutch with the roller bearings. It has a 3.2" pully, and you could mate it to a 6" on the jackshaft to get nearly the same speeds as above.

Best part is it's cheaper than the Comet, not to mention the low maintenance and better quality with the bearings."

The Max Torque clutches I've been looking at don't have roller bearings from what I can see. Is this the clutch you're talking about? I found it here and one other place for $54.61 including shipping. http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=uDGGT_vRFoT0ggf_hPi1Bw&ved=0CDwQ8wIwAg
I think this is the same clutch used in the Qmatic transmission. and has the 3.2" pulley.
Good price if this is the right one.
SB
I think that price reflects the standard bushing clutch. They Work great but require a couple drops of oil on the bushing frequently for longer life. Contact Maxtorque directly, and they are very helpful. I think they will sell you a sealed roller bearing clutch directly from them for about 90 bux.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
113
northeastern Minnesota
I think that price reflects the standard bushing clutch. They Work great but require a couple drops of oil on the bushing frequently for longer life. Contact Maxtorque directly, and they are very helpful. I think they will sell you a sealed roller bearing clutch directly from them for about 90 bux.
Thanks, Wayne. I'll do that. Is the primary difference in how long the clutch lasts, or is the roller bearing version also smoother? I notice with the standard clutch some chattering at low speed... just wondering if that would disappear with the roller bearing model. Your help is much appreciated.
SB
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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Thanks, Wayne. I'll do that. Is the primary difference in how long the clutch lasts, or is the roller bearing version also smoother? I notice with the standard clutch some chattering at low speed... just wondering if that would disappear with the roller bearing model. Your help is much appreciated.
SB
I'm not sure, but I think there is a lot less chatter with the bearing clutch, because the clutch bell doesn't have all the slack of the rather loose bushing, to let it rattle.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
I'm not sure, but I think there is a lot less chatter with the bearing clutch, because the clutch bell doesn't have all the slack of the rather loose bushing, to let it rattle.
That makes good sense. I admit I have not been diligent about keeping the bronze bushing oiled on my standard clutch and it could probably use a new bushing to quiet it down. I can well imagine the roller bearings would be quieter. I just now emailed Max Torque for ordering information and price.
SB
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
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northeastern Minnesota
I got a quick response from Max Torgue:

"It is a 3” billet pulley that we make in-house versus the stamped sheaves. This clutch must be held on the crankshaft by a bolt (5/16 -24) and washer that we will provide. The clutch is set up 200 RPM above the idle speed of the engine which you must provide us with. It is a two piece clutch, shoe assembly is separate from the drum and pulley because of the roller bearing. The cost of that clutch is $76 plus shipping.



James F. Donovan
Max-Torque, LTD.
2180 Corporate Lane
Naperville, IL 60563
Phone: (630) 369-9600
Fax: (630) 369-9686
Website: www.maxtorque.com
Email: [email protected]

Wayne, do you have any idea what the RPM would be on the 99cc Predator at idle? Pretty cool that the clutch will be custom set up for the engine being used. I'm not yet ready to order due to leaves not yet appearing on the money tree, but when they do I know where the clutch is coming from. Thank you, sir!
SB
 

cannonball2

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
I had the standard MT clutches make noise from the get go. If it rattles at idle and is quiet engaged might be the bushing. Mine made noise engaged at certain rpm. Turned out to be the disc shaped plate that retains the spring/shoes. Was loose under the circlip that retains it. An oring of the right thickness under it took the play out and cured the rattle. 2 of my 2 MTs did this.
 

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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OK, today I changed my primary ratio to 1.8:1 and I like it much better. I cruised for 10 miles straight today at 35 mph and 4500 rpm, no problems at all. I was on a rural highway 5 miles each way and dared not go any slower.

I've got my rear axle pulled back enough to slightly spread the varipulley in high range. This is to make sure the belt is always tight and the pulley stays preloaded,so this limits max pulely dia to about 2.8 ,giving a 9.8 :1 total ratio with primary included. I lucked up and didn't have to adjust this at all yet, but I see that making fine adjustments to the final belt tension would be way easier with some kind of tensioner bolts empleminted.

I think this is the perfect ratio for this engine on a bike.


Still accelerates up my steep hills without the need to downshift.

30 mph at about 4000 is real quiet and comfortable.


I saw 40 mph at 5640 rpm in frame #25 of this clip.

This thing rocks!
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=428397917176313
 
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