My first race bike build 212cc predator!

GoldenMotor.com

culvercityclassic

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2009
3,115
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Culver City, Ca
The reason I ask is because I rather not experience this and hopefully you or anybody else wont either, quoted from agk website;

"ALUMINUM FLYWHEEL: Stock flywheels, especially on clone motors, can come apart at high RPM. When a flywheel lets go at high RPM, it's similar to a grenade going off. Needless to say this is a very dangerous situation which can be lethal. Install an aluminum flywheel to prevent this disaster from striking you. With the reduction in weight you will get increased horse power and a quicker revving motor. This is an expensive part, but it's good insurance. Cost: $125.00"

Scroll down to the middle of the page and you'll see his statement;
http://www.affordablegokarts.com/performance_basics.php
I am with the Dutchman on this subject. Small price to pay for safety. The quality of this part far exceeds the stock one and I would not even think of using a cast one. A cast one...shiz I think the stock one is at least forged steel.

All the parts to build a race bike will cost you...lafflaff
 

bajaracer1

New Member
Jul 11, 2012
135
1
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Encino ca.
ok then, i guess i'm ordering a flywheel today. i don't like grenades between my legs. neither does my girlfriend who just read that post.
 
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bajaracer1

New Member
Jul 11, 2012
135
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Encino ca.
AGK has 5 different flywheels to pick from. which one should i get?
is there a big difference in performance between a 3.5 lb. and a 2lb flywheel?
also some of AGK"s flywheels set my timing to 28 degrees and some do not. do i want stock spec or 28 degrees?
do i have to buy other parts along with the flywheel? or is it a straight swap?
 
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buck0

New Member
Apr 24, 2011
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Orange County, Ca
I have the Rev flywheel finned s2 for $165.00. No other parts are needed, straight swap. I didn't see the flywheel on your wish list earlier in this thread, that's why I brought it up.
 

bajaracer1

New Member
Jul 11, 2012
135
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Encino ca.
what about the 28 degrees of timing. did you benefit from that? does my engine need to have any necessary parts installed on it, in order to get the 28 degree flywheel.

so far all i have in the engine is: intake, exhaust, valve springs, thinner .016 copped head gasket, no Governor, and #90 main jet.
 

scotto-

Custom 4-Stroke Bike Builder
Jun 3, 2010
6,505
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38
Ridin' inSane Diego, CA.
what about the 28 degrees of timing. did you benefit from that? does my engine need to have any necessary parts installed on it, in order to get the 28 degree flywheel.

so far all i have in the engine is: intake, exhaust, valve springs, thinner .016 copped head gasket, no Governor, and #90 main jet.
Slap that puppy together......ya gotta start somewhere :D

I've got the S-2 non-finned running the stock plastic with every-other fin removed. The S-2 weighs 1.8lbs.....the plastic fan weighs next to nothing, especially with the trimmed fins. I believe my timing is 24 degees advanced.

dnut
 
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buck0

New Member
Apr 24, 2011
376
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Orange County, Ca
Someone else might have a different set up on the timing but I didn't mess with mine and it runs great. I forgot the the gap size between the coil & flywheel, I'd have to look in my email inbox & hopefully I saved it. You can always email Shane at AGK for info if you can't find it in his website.
 

dmb

Active Member
Dec 4, 2010
1,354
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36
lakewood ca
a old friend of mine use to say ''no ball's no glory'' funny thing he drove a front engine aa/top fuel dragster sitting on the rear end. oh come to think of it. it was ''no ball no glory'' and yes no kid's for that guy. and he did switch to a ford 9'' a little too [one?] late. dennis
 

young grease monkey

New Member
Sep 20, 2011
362
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Chicago
Stock flywheels are cast iron. Pound for pound, aluminum is stronger. AGK probably uses 6061, or the more expensive 7000 series alloys. They are not much stronger than 356, even with heat treating (T-6). I can make 6061 and heat treat, but the casting properties aren't as good(fluidity, shrinkage, impurity resistance). I can make flywheels just as good as agk but cheaper. I will be the only low cost motorbike parts supplier because I have a foundry. Back to the topic, had to defend my turf first... you might want better valves and push rods to hold up against stronger springs and rpm. I wonder if there are titanium valves for Hondas...
 

Ibedayank

New Member
Oct 29, 2011
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Columbia Tennessee
so much for aluminum being stronger then castiron

castiron strength that's used for flywheels 50kpi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_iron

6061-O

Annealed 6061 (6061-O temper) has maximum tensile strength no more than 18,000 psi (125 MPa), and maximum yield strength no more than 8,000 psi (55 MPa). The material has elongation (stretch before ultimate failure) of 25–30 %.
6061-T4

T4 temper 6061 has an ultimate tensile strength of at least 30,000 psi (207 MPa) and yield strength of at least 16,000 psi (110 MPa). It has elongation of 16%.
6061-T6

T6 temper 6061 has an ultimate tensile strength of at least 42,000 psi (300 MPa) and yield strength of at least 35,000 psi (241 MPa). More typical values are 45,000 psi (310 MPa) and 40,000 psi (275 MPa), respectively.[4] In thicknesses of 0.250 inch (6.35 mm) or less, it has elongation of 8% or more; in thicker sections, it has elongation of 10%. T651 temper has similar mechanical properties. The famous Pioneer plaque was made of this particular alloy. The typical value for thermal conductivity for 6061-T6 at 80°C is around 152 W/m K. A material data sheet [5] defines the fatigue limit under cyclic load as 14,000 psi (100 MPa) for 500,000,000 completely reversed cycles using a standard RR Moore test machine and specimen. Note that aluminum does not exhibit a well defined "knee" on its S-n graph, so there is some debate as to how many cycles equates to "infinite life". Also note the actual value of fatigue limit for an application can be dramatically affected by the conventional de-rating factors of loading, gradient, and surface finish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminium_alloy
 

young grease monkey

New Member
Sep 20, 2011
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Chicago
I said pound for pound, as that is what matters when we deal with something that is supporting only it's own weight and centrifugal.forces. I can cast 6061 and heat treat it correctly, it is very simple. Soak at 950° for a few hours or melt and let cool just below solidus. Then quench in warm water with salt and anti freeze to maximize heat transfer. Allow to naturally age for 8 hours, then artificially age at 350° for 3-4 hours. Aging allows alloying elements to precipitate out of solution and form short grain crystals, making the metal harder and stronger. If you age too much, the part will prematurely weaken and fail due to stress cycling. Too little and the metal is softer and weaker than is optimal. I set a timer when the metal is poured to ensure correct quench temperature for the thickness of the casting. 45 seconds per quarter inch minus 10. If the stock flywheel can hold up to 6k, well designed aluminum should go as high as you want. Ummm I seem to be getting off topic again... agk is the only flywheel supplier for now so go with them. Get it with fins unless you want to do a bare engine look.
 

Ibedayank

New Member
Oct 29, 2011
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Columbia Tennessee
cast aluminum is only about 18,000 psi in strength MUCH weaker then castiron...
aluminum only has the advantage of being lighter but to equal the strength you have to use more of it.

there are steel alloys that are over 100,000 psi so now tell me how is aluminum stronger
then there is titanium thats lighter and stronger then aluminum but is a steel alloy
 

young grease monkey

New Member
Sep 20, 2011
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Chicago
All metals were originally cast, aluminum billet is continuous cast to form long pieces. Cast aluminum (356 or similar) is only 18000 psi strong when not heat treated, as in automotive parts fresh out of the mold. Then they naturally age for a while till being installed, or they can be heat treated and have near the strength of 6061(what I do). What I said is that I can cast 6061 and heat treat, so my products will be just as good as any other but I charge less because casting is cheaper to mass produce. I will just have to compensate for the extra shrinkage of 6061 because it is an alloy not designed to be cast as the final product, it is great for machining and is a good strength but needs to be heat treated. Once again, I said POUND FOR POUND. This is why nobody uses aluminum bolts in high stress applications, because it needs to be thicker for the same strength. I am not an ignorant fool, I know that steel is much stronger but heavier, and the stock flywheels are cast iron so the strength of steel is irrelevant. You seem to ignore some parts of my posts, take other parts out of context, then try to prove me wrong. Not cool, bro. And how is titanium a steel alloy? It may have iron in some alloys, but not much. Titanium has nothing to do with this discussion anyway, we are talking about a low cost flywheel. I guess because agk's flywheel is aluminum, it will grenade, according to you. It has to do with weight. Aluminum has more than enough strength to support itself at the rpm our engines will see. I have a nitromethane powered RC car with a small 2 stroke in it, and it will rev up to 35k and it has an aluminum piston and connecting rod, and now that I remember, so is that flywheel! Case closed.
 

bajaracer1

New Member
Jul 11, 2012
135
1
0
Encino ca.
that's all interesting i guess. I've decided to hold off on the flywheel until the bike is running.
anyway i'm going to be waiting for parts from AGK for another WEEK!! guess i'll be surfing everyday until then, since it's 110 degrees where i live.
here is how the jack shaft will look.

 

young grease monkey

New Member
Sep 20, 2011
362
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Chicago
cool! i love the brake set up, it's a bit like my dad's vintage atk dirt bike. that company did many unconventional things on their bikes. i am doing coaster brakes because i will use a manual clutch, lets hope a don't blow my nice cb 110 hub. i want to upgrade the bearings in that thing, they are caged so not as many can be put in there, which means less contact surface. so, are you driving the right side? that jack shaft makes a lot of offset.
 

bajaracer1

New Member
Jul 11, 2012
135
1
0
Encino ca.
what type of manual clutch are you using? is there a manual clutch option for my engine?
no i have the drive sprocket on the left side. or else the braking system wouldn't work.
 

young grease monkey

New Member
Sep 20, 2011
362
0
0
Chicago
yikes! i would upgrade those spokes. also the bearings will blow pretty quickly with the force of a 212, you can have the hub machined for sealed ball bearings. my manual clutch will be a belt drive primary, it will be manually variable because i will use a constant tension pulley just like the driven pulley on a cvt, but the drive will be a normal pulley. i will use an idler pulley as the tensioner/clutch, and the driven pulley will change ratios depending on the clutch position. i may produce these to sell.
 

scotto-

Custom 4-Stroke Bike Builder
Jun 3, 2010
6,505
25
38
Ridin' inSane Diego, CA.
I'll be really interested to see how well this manual clutch works......I think you'll be smoking more belts than you realize with a set-up of such.

dnut