Issues that only a pro can help me with, spark issues help!

[Mojo]

P.S., how did you check for air leaks?

Well i have a Air compressor with an extension i had Fabbed for me, i rotate the engine untill the piston is half way through its cycle so that it is just above the exhaust out and the air intake, i than place a seat post i have laying around through the rear tire spokes so it prevents the chain drive sprocket/piston from moving positions while under pressure allows me to test the head gaskets capability for holding pressure i test them at 125 PSI, so i guess i kind of half as*ed it and only tested the head gasket, in most cases i find that its the head gasket that leaks compression as well as the piston rings, it held at 125 pst for a little over 5 minutes.

 

[Al.Fisherman]

Just because you have good compression, doesn't mean that you don't have a crank case leak. Leaking through the case gasket or from either one of the crankshaft seals. You mentioned plug is dry, use a squirt of either starting fluid or throttle body cleaner. If all components are good, wired correctly, and the engine is in time...it WILL run. Plug dry, is a fuel delivery problem.
Have you gone through the document I posted?

 

[Mojo]

Just because you have good compression, doesn't mean that you don't have a crank case leak. Leaking through the case gasket or from either one of the crankshaft seals. You mentioned plug is dry, use a squirt of either starting fluid or throttle body cleaner. If all components are good, wired correctly, and the engine is in time...it WILL run. Plug dry, is a fuel delivery problem.
Have you gone through the document I posted?

yes i went through them, thank you for the link, i have a slight update, i have done a second check to see if the piston is seized, it is not seized and is moving smoothly, i have managed to tell for certain that i am in fact getting spark now, i have put gas (around 4-5 drops) directly into the spark plug whole and attempted to start, it makes no putt putt sound at all still as if it is not even trying to crank over, maybe it IS compression that is the issue, but where would a large enough leak be to stop it from even making the sounds these HT's usually make when you attempt a start, don't get me wrong i can hear the piston moving up and down freely, but i do not hear it the same as my other builds, my other builds when out of gas make a sort of and don't laugh ''whum whum whum whum' sound as you peddle it in attempts to start with out gas, but of course it won't crack over there is no gas.
so all that said, i have Spark now, but cannot get fire, or cannot get the engine to ''crank over''

 

[nightcruiser]

Knowing now that you do have spark, what does the plug look like after you try to start her up? Is it wet with fuel? Bone dry? When you look at the magneto, with the magnet horizontal and the keyway facing upward, the key should be pointing at about the 1'oclock position. If not then the magnet is on backward...

 

[Al.Fisherman]

i have Spark now, but cannot get fire, or cannot get the engine to ''crank over''
You need to better explain yourself. "I have spark, but can not get fire"

Do you mean that the engine will in fact turn over? Piston moving up and down? You said that you went through the list.
1) did you check to make sure the magnet was installed correctly? That the key was not sheared.

2) Have you tried a shot of starting fluid?

 

[Mojo]

i have Spark now, but cannot get fire, or cannot get the engine to ''crank over''
You need to better explain yourself. "I have spark, but can not get fire"

Do you mean that the engine will in fact turn over? Piston moving up and down? You said that you went through the list.
1) did you check to make sure the magnet was installed correctly? That the key was not sheared.

2) Have you tried a shot of starting fluid?

First an update, i have replaced the carb an exact copy from another Running build i have so i KNOW it works, i KNOW the magneto works, i KNOW the spark plug Works, i KNOW the CDI works, not sure as to how strong of an electric current is running from the cdi to the plug, but i can clearly see sparks when i move the bike forward about 3 feet it sparks around 4-5 times very visible, i have looked for fuel flooding the cylinder and there is none, infact it seemed as if there had never been gas in it *untill i poured 4-5 drops in through the spark plug hole* witch did not make it crank over, it did not even try to crank over, as for the magneto yes i made sure it was properly installed and aligned, my wiring is correct, blue to blue black to black kill switch disconnected white wire not connected to anything and capped off, i am so stumped it is sickening, i seen in another post on another forum that it could be a clutch issue, clutch being slightly too loose allowing it too slip while trying to turn over so i unhooked the clutch cable allowing it 100% slack and it still did nothing new, the only thing I can think of that i have not tried is starting fluid because i do not have any, or money to buy some, and replacing gaskets because i have never dismantled one of these HT's that far so i am not sure i know how to do it properly on top of that i do not have an extra gasket or money to get one ''currently'', in a prior response to my thread someone suggested to check the intake manifold gasket and exhaust gasket, the exhaust gasket is a-okay and there is NO intake manifold gasket between the intake manifold and the cylinder *( witch i do not see an issue with)* all my prior kits came with no intake manifold gaskets and ran perfectly with no leakage of compression or fuel/oil one of my builds a schwinn clairmont 26'' rims R.A.W brand 66/80cc non-slant fire ''straight style cylinder head'', modded pocket bike exhaust, stock carb, ADA air filter, and 44T stock kit rear sprocket with a 10T drain chain sprocket was clocked by local police units doing 49 mph, i used 32:1 for break in for 300 miles, than 40:1 for the next 200-300 miles, after that i ran it on 50:1 cheap 1.49 oil with BP's supreme gas for 8,000 miles no issues too this day, that being said i do not see the gasket for the intake manifold being an issue, i did not know it was even supposed to have one.

Sorry for the newbie terms, what i was trying to say is, i have sparks coming from the spark plug as it should, the piston moves freely inside the cylinder, yet it will NOT crank over and seems to not even try to crank over even though there is spark, what i meant by fire was, the spark is not igniting the fuel inside the cylinder, if it did my motor would be running, the gas is fine its 4 days old mixed at 32:1 premium gas from shell station with once again cheap oil.

 

[killercanuck]

in a prior response to my thread someone suggested to check the intake manifold gasket and exhaust gasket, the exhaust gasket is a-okay and there is NO intake manifold gasket between the intake manifold and the cylinder *( witch i do not see an issue with)*

That's a huge issue! Even if you've lapped the mating surfaces on the jug and the manifold you still need a gasket. The quality of any China Girl is nefarious at best, no matter what distributor picked it up off the boat from China.

For your next test, at least cut a gasket out of cereal box cardboard, or an old boot or something and get a gasket in there for gods sake.

The simplest way to do that is to rub some chain oil on the intake and "Stamp" the outline on the cardboard(or whatever) and cut to that.

I'll remind people that this is only a temp gasket until you can get your hands on real gas resistant paper, or gasket maker goop.

Get something in there for a gasket, and see how that goes.

gl.

 

[Mojo]

That's a huge issue! Even if you've lapped the mating surfaces on the jug and the manifold you still need a gasket. The quality of any China Girl is nefarious at best, no matter what distributor picked it up off the boat from China.

For your next test, at least cut a gasket out of cereal box cardboard, or an old boot or something and get a gasket in there for gods sake.

The simplest way to do that is to rub some chain oil on the intake and "Stamp" the outline on the cardboard(or whatever) and cut to that.

I'll remind people that this is only a temp gasket until you can get your hands on real gas resistant paper, or gasket maker goop.

Get something in there for a gasket, and see how that goes.

gl.

i would do that right now but it is 1:26 am here lol, i will make a cut out fron the bottom end of a large coffle can, nice thick Tin or aluminum with a snug fit it should work nicely, although if you read that post you would have realized i have another build done this way with no gasket on the intake manifold and it runs beautiful at 49 MPH. although i do agree that common sense indicates it should have a Flippin gasket in there if the exhaust has one for god sakes lol

 

[killercanuck]

sure sure, 49Kph out of the box, maybe.

Tin can gasket, ...well, you know best.

best of luck.

 

[rohmell]

Maybe you should try going the other way; instead of taking parts off of the running bike and trying them on the non-running bike, perhaps you should take the parts off the non-running bike and try them one by one on the running bike until you get to the part that causes the running bike not to run, now you know what or who the culprit is.

 

[Al.Fisherman]

First of all these HT's are by far the simplest engines I have worked on (not counting RC engines). For a engine breakdown, look at this tutorial I made.
http://s982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/Ron-Becker/Chinese HT breakdown/

1) You NEED a intake gasket more then a exhaust gasket. Make a gasket as mentioned out of gasket material or a cardboard like product. When I don't have gasket material, I use a soda (Pepsi like) box to make one, I also use gasket sealer (Indian Head) to seal it off.

2) The idea of reversing, parts on a known running bike, not a bad idea.

3) Crank over and running have different meanings. Crank over is that the piston will move up and down in the cylinder.

4) Since the engine will crank over when you push the bike, the clutch seems to work correctly.

5) When the fuel line is hooked up to the carburetor, after removing the fuel bowl drain screw, does the fuel empty from the bowl.

6) When the fuel line is removed from the carburetor, does fuel run out of the fuel line.

7) Make sure that there isn't a leak between the carburetor and intake manifold.

8) You really need to do a pressure or vacuum leak test. I understand lack of money is a issue with you.

9) Starting fluid can be a best friend. This will tell you if it is a fuel problem or a electrical problem, unless you have both at the same time.

Please, favor...either try to make shorter post or break it up like I did. It's very hard, (for me) to wade through a long post that is all cramped together. When I see one I want to skip over it. Thank you.

 

[Mojo]

sure sure, 49Kph out of the box, maybe.

Tin can gasket, ...well, you know best.

best of luck.

i get the feeling you are being sarcastic with me, the bike said on my speedo that i was doing only 46 and the police said 49...

and if i honestly should not use tin can gaskets please do speak up!

 

[Mojo]

Maybe you should try going the other way; instead of taking parts off of the running bike and trying them on the non-running bike, perhaps you should take the parts off the non-running bike and try them one by one on the running bike until you get to the part that causes the running bike not to run, now you know what or who the culprit is.

I think you may be onto something here, i will reassemble the running bike and attempt to try each part on it untill it fails to start, as a last resort.

 

[Mojo]

First of all these HT's are by far the simplest engines I have worked on (not counting RC engines). For a engine breakdown, look at this tutorial I made.
http://s982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/Ron-Becker/Chinese HT breakdown/

1) You NEED a intake gasket more then a exhaust gasket. Make a gasket as mentioned out of gasket material or a cardboard like product. When I don't have gasket material, I use a soda (Pepsi like) box to make one, I also use gasket sealer (Indian Head) to seal it off.

2) The idea of reversing, parts on a known running bike, not a bad idea.

3) Crank over and running have different meanings. Crank over is that the piston will move up and down in the cylinder.

4) Since the engine will crank over when you push the bike, the clutch seems to work correctly.

5) When the fuel line is hooked up to the carburetor, after removing the fuel bowl drain screw, does the fuel empty from the bowl.

6) When the fuel line is removed from the carburetor, does fuel run out of the fuel line.

7) Make sure that there isn't a leak between the carburetor and intake manifold.

8) You really need to do a pressure or vacuum leak test. I understand lack of money is a issue with you.

9) Starting fluid can be a best friend. This will tell you if it is a fuel problem or a electrical problem, unless you have both at the same time.

Please, favor...either try to make shorter post or break it up like I did. It's very hard, (for me) to wade through a long post that is all cramped together. When I see one I want to skip over it. Thank you.

Thank you for all your info, every bit helps, got to figure all this out eventually anyway right ? .

There very well could be a Decent sized air leak between the intake area, but would that really cause it to not start at all, i would assume that it would cause a huge performance decrease, but i would not assume it would stop it from starting, mind you this is a cheap made engine from boygofast on Ebay.

 

[Mojo]

First of all these HT's are by far the simplest engines I have worked on (not counting RC engines). For a engine breakdown, look at this tutorial I made.
http://s982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/Ron-Becker/Chinese HT breakdown/

Very nice Thank you, i added to book marks, very helpful


2 Thumbs way up!

 

[Al.Fisherman]

Just 2 :>(

 

[Mojo]

Just 2 :>(

I lost my other 4 thumbs trying to get the metal scraps out of the cylinder of my BGF engine, there was a Tragic Explosion in witch the metal scraps severed 4 of my thumbs, now i only have 2 left sorry.

Maybe if i sever and rigg my last two thumbs to the CDI my engine will run!.

 

[killercanuck]

Maybe she's just waiting for some blood before she'll run, they all get some eventually. Sorry for the sarcasm earlier. But anyway, no don't use a coffee can tin for a gasket. It needs to be soft to conform to the divots and crap.

Did you ever check to see if your Jet was clogged? (since you aren't running a filter[boo])

 

[Mojo]

Maybe she's just waiting for some blood before she'll run, they all get some eventually. Sorry for the sarcasm earlier. But anyway, no don't use a coffee can tin for a gasket. It needs to be soft to conform to the divots and crap.

Did you ever check to see if your Jet was clogged? (since you aren't running a filter[boo])

Yeah, clean jets. im gonna assume since the fuel leaves the tank and freely enters the carb, and the CDI makes spark, the clutch is fine, that the Cheap engine gasket (not sure what to call it) that goes in the middle of the bottom end of the engine where it splits in half, or maybe better put this way, if you look on the engine where the mounting area is that fits against the bike frame there is a gasket, in my case the gasket was VERY poorly added so there is like a centimeter of gasket hanging out of the engine in the mounting area, wish i had a camera i would upload a photo for description, i assume it might be leaking compression cause of it, but i think it would at least start but with poor performance

 

[Al.Fisherman]

I think you are talking about the case gasket....the gasket between the two halves. Is the gasket protruding at the front or rear mount.

This picture was for another member. The only leak in the gasket that will effect the engine is the part that surrounds the crank shaft area (where the bearing is).