Cannonballs Abbynormal 3Speed.

[bowljoman]

Land speed record. Others are hitting 60mph+ using the zennoah gt62 and single speed gopeds. http://www.davesmotors.com/bb935.html

Pefectly tuned and expansion pipe added, gopeds hit 55 mph using the chung yang gpr460 in a single speed.

Go for two IGH's and one beefy engine and make sure the math works as in rolling weight, horse power, and desired speed/rpm. Too much torque and you'll grenade the tranny as big daddy four-stroke learns when driving the IGH in the rear rim.

 

[cannonball2]

Wow I had totally forgotten about the G62! I had several on large gasser R/C planes. They were excellent runners and as reliable as the sun rising. Seems they were in the 4hp range stock. That aint bad!

 

[LandSpeedRecord]

I have checked out those on davesmotors and they are really nice. There is a version of the pocket bike motor we had success with in actual pocket bikes ha ha and I was going to go with those. All out speed I am working on the current bike to go to Bonneville with. The twin engine project is to show off design, and craftsmanship as anything else. Plus i am dying to have two slightly offset snake pipes routed around two motors thinking the sound will be awesome as well. It sounds performance driven but is really just for fun. The green bike in my pics is the one I am really developing for all out speed.

 

[silverbear]

Old hubs can work, as in sheldon's conversion, but longevity is unknown. New hub designs use roller clutches instead of pawls. Old SA hubs have a dead spot if not adjusted properly that can develop into a full neutral gear.

I really recommend purchasing a new or getting at least a modern hub and particlarly, using the S3X hub for left hand drivers.

I have doubts in the realm of the reverse drive for coaster/freewheel hubs.

If one cant acquire the S3X for budget, then consider rear-rack mounting with enough offset to forward drive a tricycle transmission, or consider the 2-strokes that output on the right side using a 5 to 1 reducer, centrifugal clutch, and driving the right side(convert peddles into pegs, since gears push the bike into illegal ville anyway .

In the end, the tranny seems cheaper than an engine that is modded to reach the same speeds with added reliability. So dont be affraid to splurge on it. GET THE RIGHT PART the FIRST TIME, or you wont have a good time.

This is more than a little bit discouraging. Obviously the best thing would be the S3X, made for the purpose and brand new. The question is whether or not an old AW or other freewheel SA hub can be made to work... not as well as, but simply can it be made to work and if used gently last long enough to make it worthwhile? We simply don't know the answer to that question. And a further unanswered question for me is whether or not such a conversion is within my capabilities with simple tools. Looking at the schematic is daunting and I'm not sure that I could ever get one back together without there being extra parts left over, but schematics always look daunting and maybe it is not so hard.

Still, I wish someone would do the conversion in the interest of finding out whether or not it is a viable option. It will bug me not knowing. Some of us are not interested in speed shifting, going as fast as we can or the need for a shift in gears to be accomplished instantly. I wouldn't mind waiting for the pawls or whatever to manage the task... in what, a few seconds? And I don't mind feathering the throttle a bit. If someone does the conversion, makes it work and it lasts for five minutes even with the most cautious use then we know more than we know now. And if it does work and someone manages to make it last for hundreds of miles, then it is an option. It is or it isn't. Don't know...
SB

 

[cannonball2]

Don't be too discouraged SB, I intend to add a 3speed hub driven on the left to my test mule CG bike. The only one I have is the Shimano, probably not the greatest candidate. My thinking is with the common hub, pull starting is necessary to ease the loading on the drive pawls. A cent clutch would also be easier on it. I have both to add to the mule bike.

Bowljoman is the guru on the IGH and I thoroughly believe what he says. Taking $$ in to account though it would be nice to see if the easily found/cheap hubs will do. They are under less loading in a jackshaft/intermediate position, and they do seem to survive on a normally configured shifter bike being driven at the back wheel(more loading).

Got to recover $$ from the last build before attempting the conversion on the test mule, but will be looking for a cheap SA freewheel hub in the meantime.

 

[LandSpeedRecord]

Cannonball, thanks for the nitro tips and knowledge! I am using every bit of knowledge and data i can find and your practical experience is awesome and helpful.

 

[cannonball2]

No problem! I find what you are planning to do very interesting and your enthusiasm contagious. If you need a pit helper let me know!

Ya know, a CG on glow would be awesome! No Ignition per se to worry about!

 

[LandSpeedRecord]

You know the thought of running it as an actual glow engine crossed my mind but I have no knowledge of how it works. Can a glow plug run that long at once? I'm guessing at least 10 to 15 minutes or more to get it up to temperature and the long run down the salt. Could glow plugs be fed off a battery to run that long maybe? Could possibly use small automotive glow plugs. Sorry your idea got my mind running. And you would be more than welcome at Bonneville of course.

 

[cannonball2]

Glow plugs are very long lived under ideal conditions. A lean run will take em right out. They work off the catalytic action between the methanol and the platinum in the plugs filament not retaining heat. You can run them off two Li-Ion laptop batteries for a long time. Mostly in the R/C world they are run stand alone or maybe with a system that will supply voltage at idle for problematic engines like radials. They are started with a simple snap on glow driver and it is removed once started. Id say 95% run and idle well with no voltage added. A diesel type glow plug would not work.

The biggest advantage is being able to run the nitro/methanol fuel, which can be done with spark ignition also. The glow plugs are very small and can simply replace the spark plug with a well made adapter in the plug hole.
I had a friend the raced a large plane using a large Stihl engine converted to glow. It had twin plugs. It produced way more power than a gasoline powered counterpart.
The heart of a conversion like this is a well prepped carb to meter the fuel properly. Methanol is burned at 6 times the rate of gasoline if I remember correctly. Searching kart and R/C forums (especially) and maybe ebay for carbs might give you an idea of whats out there.
Continue on with your current direction with the engine you are building, but keep this in mind.

 

[bowljoman]

If I had a back yard shop, I probably wold want to try reverse driving too I just dont have the room for spare bike fun time. Its like I got room and time for only one ride. I envy you guys

 

[LandSpeedRecord]

Cannonball, thanks for explaining the glow plugs. I was wondering if two or more woul be advantageous. I take it you think running a second r/c carb on the nitro blend may work? If it doesn't I plan to convert to nitro and start with a 15% blend. I would ultimately like to run both classes so having it as an add on system would be nice because i could pull it off quickly and run normal pre mix for the gas class. It's been a long day so far balancing the crank and finishing a bunch of port work so I can put it back together and get some miles on this set up.

 

[silverbear]

Don't be too discouraged SB, I intend to add a 3speed hub driven on the left to my test mule CG bike. The only one I have is the Shimano, probably not the greatest candidate. My thinking is with the common hub, pull starting is necessary to ease the loading on the drive pawls. A cent clutch would also be easier on it. I have both to add to the mule bike.

Bowljoman is the guru on the IGH and I thoroughly believe what he says. Taking $$ in to account though it would be nice to see if the easily found/cheap hubs will do. They are under less loading in a jackshaft/intermediate position, and they do seem to survive on a normally configured shifter bike being driven at the back wheel(more loading).

Got to recover $$ from the last build before attempting the conversion on the test mule, but will be looking for a cheap SA freewheel hub in the meantime.

Over the next couple of days I'll dig some more and see if I have another freewheel SA hub. The one I have is missing the screw in deal the cable attaches to. If I find a complete one I'd be happy to send it to you in the interest of "research and development". You'll also need the shifter for the handlebar. I'll look.
SB

 

[cannonball2]

Thanks SB! I can work with what ever you have. I have a friction type thumb shifter that will work if you don't have the original. I will get a bit more hands on with the layout before we get a hub in the mail. Will try to do that this morning.

 

[curtisfox]

Check this out don't know how strong they are but interesting...........Curt

http://www.industrialbicycles.com/hub_options.htm

 

[silverbear]

Thanks SB! I can work with what ever you have. I have a friction type thumb shifter that will work if you don't have the original. I will get a bit more hands on with the layout before we get a hub in the mail. Will try to do that this morning.

Good. I have sent you a PM requesting a mailing address. I'll get it packed up and sent off the next time I go to town. I'm so glad you're willing to try this. Please take pictures as you go. Good luck!
SB

 

[KCvale]

Nice job cannonball2,

I didn't think you would be able to get the chains to line up, but you pulled it off very well sir, I tip my hat to you.

I like a rotary 3-speed shifter upside down on the left myself, and never clutch to shift, I just back off the throttle some.

It is the same total chain count as a jackshaft, but you don't have to mess with the bottom bracket.

A very fine solution for engine gears on a bike with no pedal gears and no rear disc.

 

[cannonball2]

Check this out don't know how strong they are but interesting...........Curt

http://www.industrialbicycles.com/hub_options.htm

That would work too Curt. Probably fairly strong being its made for a trike.

Thanks for the compliment KC, I appreciate it coming from an innovative builder like yourself!

 

[KCvale]

Well earned praise to you my friend ;-}

 

[cannonball2]

Silverbear graciously offered to send me one of this SA hubs from his private stash and I appreciate that offer very much. But first I thought I would build around the aged Shimano 3spd. These are known to be less robust than the SA hubs and if it should survive then the SA will do just fine. This is an attempt to use the many rather cheap and easy to come by 3spd IGHs out there. If money is not a problem then there are other methods from the S3X to the traditional shifter bike. Plus this is not a hard or $$ conversion.
Recapping a bit, run on the left the hub is driven not the original sprocket which then becomes the driven. Due to the reverse power flow only two speeds are available. A 1:1 and an overdrive. This is still very useable and depending in final gearing of the bike can be either a low/high range or a normal/overdrive.
The conversion requires a sprocket be attached to the hub. I found at least with the Shimano a sprocket from the common multispeed freewheel will fit well over the hubs shell up against the spoke flange where it can be welded or bolted. That's pretty much the conversion. Try to keep the sprockets close to or the same size. Using what I have, this hub has a 22t on the hub and an 18 in the original position. If I use it like this I will have a 1.2 overdrive already factored in in addition to the hubs over drive. Ideally a 1:1 hub ratio would be used but any combo of ratios can be juggled to get the final overall. You have to choose what you are after normal cruise and a low gear, or normal cruise and a higher gear. Its up to you.
I will be a while building this, some one please feel free to do this and post here.
And ask questions, that's what the forum is all about.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Well earned praise to you my friend ;-}

Yes exactly so

I'm wondering how it would go driving the hub with a belt and pulley instead of a chain.