Cannonballs Abbynormal 3Speed.

cannonball2 said:
Thanks for all the kind words and compliments everyone! This wasn't a difficult build especially for a first. The only parts fabbed were the hub mount and the secondary sprocket(actually just modded). The hub seems strong enough. We will soon know as I plan to keep the bike on the road to find out.
If anyone needs more info on the conversion I will be happy to list out the parts used.

Now to add the reversed 3speed to the other bike to see how it works out. Cool thing is if either hub fails just remove the hub, mount and its chain, install a chain from the engine to the wheel and ride on.
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I'd like a parts breakdown. Looks like a really cool idea. Not sure if I can handle the sprocket mods with my tools though...
Simply excellent work!
 
Thanks M57! Be glad to give the inside scoop. I spent hours looking on the net for sprockets. Any of the Surley fixie sprockets will fit the hubs driver, I believe they are available up to 25t. Next find a Sturmey Archer 8speed sprocket it will fit over the hub and against the flange. It has three small nubs like a coaster sprocket that with in a few thousands center it on the hub. Get an offset 23t or up. 23 is the smallest that will fit over the hub. Drill six of the spoke holes(equally spaced) to accept #8 allens. carefully mark the sprocket as to the bolt hole locations and Dremel six slots to accept the allen bolts in the sprockets inner opening. I actually used a diamond rod saw that goes in a hacksaw I just happened to have. Made fast work of the job. Bolt the sprocket to the spoke flange and the hub is converted. Making it work on your bike is up to you.
 
A diamond rod saw blade, - that sounds like a really useful tool to have. It would be a real case of diamonds being a girl's best friend if I got one of those :)
 
cannonball2 said:
Thanks M57! Be glad to give the inside scoop. I spent hours looking on the net for sprockets. Any of the Surley fixie sprockets will fit the hubs driver, I believe they are available up to 25t. Next find a Sturmey Archer 8speed sprocket it will fit over the hub and against the flange. It has three small nubs like a coaster sprocket that with in a few thousands center it on the hub. Get an offset 23t or up. 23 is the smallest that will fit over the hub. Drill six of the spoke holes(equally spaced) to accept #8 allens. carefully mark the sprocket as to the bolt hole locations and Dremel six slots to accept the allen bolts in the sprockets inner opening. I actually used a diamond rod saw that goes in a hacksaw I just happened to have. Made fast work of the job. Bolt the sprocket to the spoke flange and the hub is converted. Making it work on your bike is up to you.
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Excellent! THAT I can do! I was worried about getting the bolt pattern centered perfectly...
How does it shift running backwards? Any problems running power through it yet?
 
This one is the S3X it works in either direction just fine since it is fixed/locked. It has three speeds and works well. The ones that turn backwards are the normal speed hubs that are easy and cheap to find. Turning backwards they have two speeds 1:1 and overdrive. I haven't used one of these in a build yet, Just the new S3X.
 
I really want to do this. The hub will fit, I just need to look closer as to how low I can get it and chain routing. The first step is making it run after the major overhaul, It won't start and I can't figure it out. I have two of almost everything and chased down and fixed weak intermittent spark and have very strong spark now. The compression should be high but feels lower that before so tomorrow I will try fresh rings and swap some cylinder gaskets around and add a very thin layer of sealant to be sure.
Keep us updated on how it rides with the 3 speed.
 
Intrepid Wheelwoman said:
A diamond rod saw blade, - that sounds like a really useful tool to have. It would be a real case of diamonds being a girl's best friend if I got one of those :)
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I found this at Home Depot. It was in the tile department. Came as a set with a flat diamond blade and the round one. Think it was intended to cut curved shapes in tile. Any way it has cut just about anything hard/hardened I have need to and doesn't seem much the worse for wear. Wasn't very expensive as I remember. A good thing to have in the tool box!
 
Well am going to have to pass the build using the standard 3speed hub to another builder. The hub in this configuration(turned backwards) requires a pull start as the hub freewheels in the direction of pedal starting. I have already installed an auto clutch on the engine to be used and was just installing the pull start when I discovered the cranks threaded end is too short to mount the recoils cup. DANG! I wish they would at least make the basics the same! The crank on the GT5 engine is plenty long but its on the S3X 3speed bike. Cant easily see a way around this. If I milled the cup to allow enough threads to mount it Im afraid it will break out in the milled area.

The rest of you be advised, if you are thinking about a pull start to check the crank first!
The last thing I can do is to dismantle the hub and see if I can lock it in some way like the fixie hub and still have the multiple speeds.
 
Well that's awfully inconvenient CB :(
I'm reasonably certain that my faux Villiers China Girl is made to accept a pull start conversion so hopefully I won't have similar problems when I set things up on the motorised attachment I'm building.
 
Intrepid Wheelwoman said:
Well that's awfully inconvenient CB :(
I'm reasonably certain that my faux Villiers China Girl is made to accept a pull start conversion so hopefully I won't have similar problems when I set things up on the motorised attachment I'm building.
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Just pull the mag cover and see if you have at least 1/4" of threads proud of the nut on the mag rotor. If so you should ok. The cup is about 3/16" thick. My darn Flying Horse is flush with the nut!
 
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cannonball2 said:
Just pull the mag cover and see if you have at least 1/4" of threads proud of the nut on the mag rotor. If so you should ok. The cup is about 3/16" thick. My darn Flying Horse is flush with the nut!
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Thinner nut and no lock washer maybe? If it gives enough it's worth a try....
 
cannonball2 said:
This one is the S3X it works in either direction just fine since it is fixed/locked. It has three speeds and works well. The ones that turn backwards are the normal speed hubs that are easy and cheap to find. Turning backwards they have two speeds 1:1 and overdrive. I haven't used one of these in a build yet, Just the new S3X.
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OUCHIES! Cheapest I can find the sx3 is $130 bucks.
FAR out of my price range...
I thought this was a regular old three speed Sturmy hub.
Still super nice, but not something I can realistically even think about doing.
 
cannonball2 said:
Just Do a build using a common 3speed. We would all like to see that done! If you didn't read far enough back heres the explanation. http://motorbicycling.com/showpost.php?p=601390&postcount=79
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Yeah, I got cornfused which you were using. The three speeds made me giddy!
Seriously, if I had unlimited budget, this is one of the first builds I have seen here I would copy. Just too sweet and damn good looking as well.
The cutting off of the top cover screw boss worried me at first, but your replacement looks just fine.
I'm thinking the fixed version of the hub almost HAS to be stronger than the older freewheeling versions....
And as things are, I'm looking hard at using an OCC style jackshaft with pedal freewheel to run a derailleur setup on my Pig. Doing it this way would allow normal use of any three speed hub in the rim so there's no point to using one as a jackshaft and losing a speed.
The only stumbling block to my idea is the need for frame mods to give me room behind the cranks for the pedal freewheel. I'm still undecided between stretching the frame, and using dropout extensions to move the wheel back and allow good chain routing.
 
It would be better to use it as a jack shaft,as it multiply's the power going through sprockets,from small to big on the wheel. Be less strain on the hubs,especially the older ones,just my thoughts.....................Curt
 
Not knowing exactly what you are building I cant really visualize. I had thought of using a 3speed as a jackshaft to a 3speed rear wheel. Never ran gearing to see if the reductions were in the needed ranges, but gut says probably.
Think of the combinations of gears two 3sp IGHs would give! This would also leave the pedal system totally alone.

Thoughts after putting as many miles on the bike as the weather will allow is that its really a GREAT ride. Have got the shifting worked out to where it very pleasant to ride. When shifting down it works exactly as an M/C you just need to match the engines speed for the lower gear. When shifting stopped its best to roll the bike slightly to catch the shifted to gear, the clutch has to lock in place. Otherwise it will engage under load on take off. This is avoided if the gear selection is done while just rolling to a stop.
Riding this thing reminds me of when I learned to ride a Harley 165 as a kid. Has the same sound basically and seems about the same on power to weight ratio. I loved the old 165, glad this bike reminds me of it.
I may have gone strong on the gearing, The overall ratio with the mismatched sprockets on the hub is the same as a 30t sprocket even though its a 32t. Low is a bit high. Fine for the flats here but lower overall gearing would be in order in hill country, IF you are planning on starting from still. Not a problem pedaling. Other side of that is its nicely relaxed at a mid 30s cruise. With it current gearing the calc. says it would have a 44mph top end @7K rpms, which is not really wound out compared to a single speed(9K+). Stock engine probably wont pull the wind loading at 44, but sure makes the 30s nice!
 
That says it well.

Bonus points for down shifting around police in order to be less obnoxious.

Eventually after a year and a few bad shifts, you'll see its tougher than you think! Ive missed some pretty brutal shifts. A few times, the cable was loose and 2nd/3rd was unreliable. Out of nowhere it hit thirds while Im at a high rpm. So far, in the battles between the chain, the engine and the hub, the hub always wins. The engine may stop. The chain may fly off, but the tranny just seems to get better and better. 1000 mile break in period for nexus inter-3 at least.
 
I'm so glad to hear of you guys having such positive experiences. Excellent. Even the $130.00 sx3 is actually reasonable, just out of my reach at present. It certainly makes for a compact gearbox for a really clean build.

Like Maniac, I'm hoping that someone can do the poorboy version using a recycled old S.A. 3 speed as a 2 speed. Even just the high/low choice is good and makes for a more versatile bike. Someone will do it!
SB
 
Cannonball, how big is the hub in relation to a spray paint can? I held one in the spot for a pic if you can see it here. I am going to P.M. you a question when you get the chance. I have not found the timing light yet but have a few LED's laying around and saw a write up on making one and may try that for a timing light.

picture.php
 
Well more time on the "hub" bike. Was having an issue with it tossing the rear drive chain at odd times. Alignment was perfect as was tension, sprocket run, out etc. I finally concluded the sprockets being so close to the same size was the issue. I lengthened the chain by two links to get some "wrap" into the rear sprocket and added a home made spring idler. That took care of the chain issue but then the idler started eating springs. Id leave with a new spring and come back with one stretched and the idler very loose.
I have had spring idlers on many builds, but never a pedal start. Took a bit for me to realize the lower chain was being loaded under starting to the point of totally straightening out which would stretch the spring. I added a stop bolt at a point that would stop the travel of the arm under starting, but still allow decent travel for the idler to travel with the usual irregularities that chain/sprockets have. Problem solved!

Next I converted the dry clutch to a wet version. After riding the wet clutch on the test bike for nearly 250mi the dry clutch is just too grabby. Love the smoothness of the wet version. This is Gen III on the clutch pucks. The last versions worked very well. Thought I would try a version that cut out two steps in the fabrication. Results are initially excellent. Have to see about the durability.

This bike is just getting better. I have been starting in any gear with no apparent issues to the hub. I have shifted several times forgetting to clutch, no problems yet. Seems pretty tough. The GT5 is running great. All the bike needs is a brake upgrade. Going for a front disc soon. I will post some pics when the camera makes it home from my wifes visit with the kids.
 
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