Mongo, 48v 1000w 'Magic Pie' hub on a Mongoose 'Snarl'

GoldenMotor.com

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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thanks barely awake. i am planning on a inch tire which i beleive will be faster. still looking at batteries
As these hub motors are RPM limited, you'll not get any real top speed gain from reduced rolling resistance, but you would get a marginal increase in range & it would be slightly easier to pedal if you so choose... given the brutal roads around here I opted for 2.125 semi-slicks rated to 65psi, inflated to 50psi - to help smooth the ride, protect my rims & resist flats...

...but there's no "right" answer when it comes to wheel & tire choices, it's all personal preference & your application... and I'm a known balloon tire bike junkie lol

BA that looks nice just curious how much do you weigh? My e-bike didn't last 100 miles with my fat carcus LOL
I'm a bit over 6' & just about 200lbs give or take... but I'm not sure what you mean by "didn't last"? Do you mean you had a failure of some sort? What type ebike did you have?
 
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paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
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what exactly do the regin brakes do. been researching and maybe someone can put it in simple terms for me lol
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Hey Barely

I don't know if you ever heard of a
cycle analyst before but it is a must
have for an Ebike. It's a fuel gauge
and many other things.

Hope this link works.

WWW.Ebikes.ca

Cheers

POPS
Thanks POPS, another thing to put on the endless shopping list :p Defo a sweet lil 'puter tho, thanks again for the link!
 

paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
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Thanks ba. I thought that's what it was but read a few things that led one to believe it helps with breaking. Ebikes and all the changes since I had one many years ago is fascinating me big time
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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No worries Paul, I'm on a steep learning curve myself ATM lol & it does help with braking as the drag from the electric motor reduces brake load/provides additional stopping force... but one of the aspects I'm a bit hazy on is apparently the 'Pie has variable regenerative features - "no load" while coasting (no brakes) to reduce drag and I believe adjustable regenerative parameters (amount of regen/stopping force/drag) through the use of mosfet circuitry, something like this;



...but I'll freely admit I'm starting to get way over my head lol - there's more info here where I got the pic: Regenerative Braking System
 

NormO

New Member
Jun 15, 2011
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From what i've been able to gather. Regen is kinda a useless feature on a electric bicycle. Since they don't have enough weight to make it effective. Other than it's a feature that should be on a checklist.
 

POPS

Member
Sep 8, 2008
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From what i've been able to gather. Regen is kinda a useless feature on a electric bicycle. Since they don't have enough weight to make it effective. Other than it's a feature that should be on a checklist.
NormO

Actually from everything I've read it works
really good in stop and go traffic once you
get used to it.
It slows you down for a light so you don't
have to use your brakes and charges at
the same time.

POPS
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Well, it's been almost two weeks since I could ride this silly thing & lemme tell ya, it was a looooooong two weeks lol

I'd dropped my wheelset off at my local bike shop a while ago to have the new double wall alloy rims & stainless spokes laced up, but things had gotten a lil weird right from the get-go... First, the rims I'd received were not the advertised "26x2.00" - they're an actual 26x1.95 & very clearly labeled in fact;



...or rather were very clearly labeled as ofc I don't like stickers & promptly peeled 'em off.

No matter - it's a minor difference to say the least & they're still dang sweet rims for a mere $20 each & while the 'Pie comes with a deep V double wall, the Mongoose ofc didn't & I've long ago gotten tired of riding cheesy single wall alloys, particularly unnerving when it's the front heh

The front wheel build went as well as you'd expect, Zach had it laced up in a 4x, tuned & done before you could blink an eye - not a surprise as he's a pro & that one was by far the most mundane, "standard" wheel build I'd ever handed him. The 'Pie wheel build was another issue entirely, as there was a bit of a learning curve.

We knew the spokes are unusually short, that's obvious - but he figured correctly that he'd be able to find some in stainless w/rolled threads anyway, the hitch was we'd chatted a bit about a cross pattern for the 'Pie, done typically for additional rigidity & strength. He did the math (a lot of math) & ordered up the custom spokes & we waited for them to arrive.

When they arrived he quickly realized there was a problem, due to the very short spokes & the way the 'Pie is drilled it can only take a radial pattern, so the spokes we'd gotten were the wrong length. We chatted about it a bit & agreed that as the spokes are so short it's a really strong, rigid wheel even with just a radial pattern - so he figured the math again & ordered up another set of custom spokes... & we waited... again.

When they finally showed up he had the wheel built & ready for me that same day despite the fact it's hectic as heck there, it's the middle of spring rush after all. Overjoyed that I could get Mongo on the road again I immediately bailed outa work to go get it & here's the result;



Worth the wait? Definitely. Rollin' on a set of perfectly tuned wheels w/the fatty 2.125 semislicks I love so much, the ride is smooth as glass... well, when the road is anyway lol & I can stop worrying quite so much about every lil pothole that comes along FTW
 

paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
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i imagine you gained a few miles per hour with the new wheels and tires. when i used to do a lot of mountain biking what you had for tires and wheels made all the difference in the world. did you notice any speed difference? i remember what you said about the rpm but still curous i cannot wait to get my magic pie 3. sounds like a nice worry free ride
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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Could be, while I've not had a chance to do any GPS runs it felt like I was flying right along... but TBH I bet it's the same exact 25mph as the other tires I had on it before did have a smooth center band, so there was very little rolling resistance in any case.

It's most likely just perception, as I couldn't ride it for so long lol

The big difference is handling, heh I jus' love these big ol' semi slick balloon tires (^) The pics are a bit deceptive, while not a full wrap around tread like the 'Maxxis Hookworm' for example - they do have more of a round crown than it seems in the pics, the tread descends about as far as I'd ever lean at speed on the roads & best yet, they've slighter better water shedding characteristics - not quite as prone to hydroplaning as the hookworms due to the deeper & closer tread cuts.

With a somewhat harder compound & really thick tread area... I s'pose you could call 'em "performance commuter" tires lol
 

Mike B

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Mar 23, 2011
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I plan to go at mine this weekend. Dremeled the sharps, mounted the new Hookworms (only 1 rim strip needed - :) ) and mounted the new freewheel. Regreased the bearings in the new front wheel.

Still don't have the battery, but at least I can get the mechanical stuff done.
 

paul

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Dec 23, 2007
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look forward to hearing about yours mike. mine is ordered however my daughter is getting married so heading to michigan for the wedding and some time with the family. i will get back to the island on the 21st of june and it will be waiting for me. i am really excited to say the least
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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A shame we all live jus' about as far apart as ya can get lol - a 'Pie ride would be awesome!


Mike B - Thanks man, you just reminded me to grease the bearings in my front hub, I knew I'd forgotten something >.<

& BTW, I in no way wanted to infer any negativity towards the Hookworms, they're truly a great high preformance tire! I'd run them myself if I weren't such a cheap SOB & so obsessed with wear rates heh

Oh yea, please do post some pics of your ride if ya can (^)
 

Mike B

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Mar 23, 2011
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I don't see the tires as expensive.

Bike - $700
Motor Kit - $400
Battery - $600
Tires - $50

So the tires are are $25 each. But they are nice and round and smooth and you can pump them over 100 psi if you want. You don't get that with $12 tires.
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
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I had my personal doubts about the Hookworms for a while. Got one here the little dimples are still cherry . The type rubber on these tires is hard to explain there nothing like I have seen before? These are a good race track tire. Have been surprised at the grip they take to asphalt. Last after riding with so many Knobby creations. These tires seam have optimum rolling to drag efficiency that I cannot think of a way to top for as slicks go.. Have yet to run one it the rear but will eventually.

They do take on dust a little differently. The dust gets trapped to the tire in a way that cannot really be wiped off as cleaning and detailing a bike goes. These tires do grip rather well tho.
 
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paul

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Dec 23, 2007
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ba with the weight in the back and the torgue of the electric motor do you need to be careful of it pulling a wheelie excpecially going up a steep hill?
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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I don't see the tires as expensive.

Bike - $700
Motor Kit - $400
Battery - $600
Tires - $50

So the tires are are $25 each. But they are nice and round and smooth and you can pump them over 100 psi if you want. You don't get that with $12 tires.
Very valid points it's true, I s'pose it's down to personal preference as I tend to run no more than 40-50psi of a max 65psi (redneck shock absorption) & the awkwardness of trying to find the Hookworms in the size I prefer - I could easily be wrong (didn't look very hard) but it seems they're not readily available in 26x2.125? Looks like they skip right to 26x2.5 @ roughly $40 each... still a good deal for a quality tire... but I do so love these cheapo semi-slicks lol *shrug*

ba with the weight in the back and the torgue of the electric motor do you need to be careful of it pulling a wheelie excpecially going up a steep hill?
Not really... the HP just isn't there & while electrics are known for their "instant torque" characteristics the 'Pie seems to have a "soft start" feature, the engagement of the motor from a dead stop isn't the hard hit you'd expect, it comes up quick - but not the wham-instant full power you'd expect from an electric motor. This is most likely deliberate as otherwise there could be problems with drop out wear, from spinning & walking the 'Pie's axle... but I'm guessing here lol ;)

There is ofc the ever present issue of having that much weight on the back of a bike & that's turns - while not "unstable" by any means, it does take some getting used to during hard & fast cuts or wet/sandy turns. One of the reasons I was so anxious to swap out my tires was due to this, I used to have a Continental ComfortContact on the back & while it does have tread lines, they're so light it's effectively a full slick - and early on I dumped during a wet U-turn... some of this was the tire, some of this was the weight & some of it was just my inexperience w/this particular build's handling ofc.

The grip greatly improved even while wet w/the new rubber & now used to the weight it's no longer an issue, I have a habit of pretending I'm on a slalom course when the road is empty/no-one's looking - but it is something to be wary of at first.



& sorry it took me lil while to get back to you guys - but it's for a good reason I swear lol, the weather simply awesome I've been out riding all over the place... this silent ebike thing is really addictive @.@

...but this also means I can give some feedback on the 48v 15ah LiFePO4 battery pack w/the 'Pie as I finally managed to pooch it out. Running a "worst case scenario" full tilt boogie all the time (100% throttle), breezy weather on twisty roads & hilly terrain with disabled regenerative braking, with no attempt made to coast, pedal assist or conserve power in any way & some stop n'go downtown riding & a lil bit of dirt trail thrown in for good measure I managed 27.9 miles... & more mixed feelings lol

I am completely satisfied with this range as it's more than enough for my local needs & it's absolutely perfect for it's intended use, the "tribrid" taddy project... but it does bring to light the downside of electrics, it becomes very clear why they're not so popular in a rural area like this one. While I'm conveniently located between a couple of small towns, each roughly 8 miles away (thus 16mi round trip) so I wouldn't normally come even close to my "point of no return" - being limited to no more than roughly 30 miles even commuting w/a recharge point (while at work or w/e) & given the investment, I can see why some would balk at the idea *shrug* I've no problem with it... but I also can see how this setup is somewhat limited, as a commuter or supplementary transport, my 100 mile weekend wanderabouts are still my gasbike's domain heh

Oh right, jus' so ya know - as I suspected the little "battery level" lights on the 'Pie's throttle are completely useless lol, it's green till DEAD w/no fade or warning, the entire system just shuts down. Unplugging, waiting a mo' & plugging it back in again resets everything & now the level indicators will light red & yellow... and you'll get maybe another fifty feet before it all shuts down again, without even the yellow light going out first.

No surprise at all given the battery type & the limitations of such a simple gauge. Fortunately I figured I was using up my luck and was only a coupla miles from home at the time. At least now I know my range and can ride accordingly... I didn't take any vids this time, but other'n downtown & the lil bit of trails it's the same terrain as this vid I made before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNhS5FJCqNo

...and I did actually pick up a speed increase w/the tire swap, 1mph confirmed for a 26mph flat ground sustained... or mebbe it was jus' the bearing grease :p
 
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