Villiers beach cruiser

[harry76]

Do you think i need to wrap the whole front pulley? Dont i only need the top part of your guide and have it run the full distance between the two pulleys. I notice when pushing the bike it turns over the motor and is hard to push but if i simply put a little downward pressure on the top part of the primary belt it suddenly frees up and is a breeze to push, therefore i only figured id need a top part.... thoughts?

I went and bought a 3" pulley and dropped it off at the machine shop to have it threaded and then ill buy a belt and try again. And if still not right i can try the 2 1/2.....These pulleys are reasonably cheap so making these changes arent to costly..... cant comment on the belts yet as i havent purchased a quality brand one yet.

 

[msrfan]

Try a guide where you put pressure on it to free it up. May be all you need. The bottom is important so the belt won't lay on the pulley and grab. Mine doesn't engage like yours. My middle pulley is on a pivot like a Whizzer and when I pull the clutch lever it swings down and forward, so I needed a full wrap. You can probably get by with just the front pulley top and bottom guide. The way mowers do it is with 2 guides for the motor pulley and 2 for the driven pulley. They place them just to the rear of the motor pulley and to the front of the drive pulley and adjust them so they barely miss the belt when it is tensioned. So when the belt slacks and blossoms out, the guides hold the belt off the pullies letting it freewheel. It's hard to describe, but I think you will get it.

 

[harry76]

Thanks MSRFAN, i appreciate your advice.

Today i finished up my stand, and refitted my sealed tank which thankfully doesnt have any leaks, but my old petcock is leaking a little from the tap...... i put the bike up on the stand and started it and for some reason this time the primary was slipping so i decided to take it for a ride.

I think its geared too high, i did manage to take off under its own power, i have to slip the clutch to keep the revs up, and if i tried to push the clutch right in the revs would drop off. I could get up to a certain speed (not very fast) but then couldnt get past that as the revs would drop away, and even if i pedalled to assist it didnt seem to help.

But until i get my smaller front pulley tommorow and try and get another belt to suit its hard to make a judgement. Is it geared too high? Is it a problem with the engine? Was the primary belt slipping?

I guess i will wait until i test the new pulley belt and go from there.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Thinking about the threads to the tank valve leak, was wondering how that is fixed.

I thought of teflon tape used in plumbing. Would you know is that resistant to gasoline, I don't really know and have not tried that myself.

The other thing I thought, if the threads are tapered, then maybe they seal without anything?

If you have a flange that is at a point where the thread on the valve to tank mating surfaces are and a gasoline resistant o-ring is in between the surfaces, then sealing the threads are not the only means to preventing a leak.

SealAll glue I thought of, since it says it is gasoline resistant, but then you are messing up the threads for removal of the valve in the future. Also High Temp Red RTV, not sure if it is a possibility to seal threads?

Last I thought of how I think my build is going to be with a barb on the outflow of the gas tank. Using a hose to the barb and hose clamp, the hose goes to a valve with both input and output barbs using hose clamps. Then it just needs to have some means of attachment to the tank or the frame.

Measure Twice

 

[harry76]

Its not the thread from thr tank to the petcock that is leaking, but the actual screw in tap part. Its only a very tiny leak and doesnt leak when closed. Ill have a better look tommorrow but there is like a rope packing i think, i will make sure it is seated properly.

 

[msrfan]

I think you're on the right track Harry. A large motor pulley along with low hp would act as you describe. Belts are great to work with because they're not messy or heavy like a chain and easily adjustable. On the other hand a belt is not as efficient as a chain for power delivery. Just the fact that a belt needs constant tension robs horsepower. You should have no problem getting your belts to work properly once you get the right ratios.

 

[harry76]

Hope so MSRFAN.... I will keep trying til ive got it right. Its a great learning experience and so far not too costly.

I have to wait until monday to get my front pulley done as he didnt have the right size tap, i have since thought i should just buy the tap myself.... oh well. Then i can fit it and get the right sized belt. Hopefully i can get a good one without ordering one. I will also go to the bike shop Monday and buy a longer brake cable. I also have to get my kickstarter working. It needs a little work....... I ve also been questioning my decision to keep it bare metal. I still like it but i dont know if i should do an aged effect paintjob on the bike the same color as the rims. Id say ill end up painting it like that, just wondering if i should do that now or wait a little while. Dunno!

Heres how it looks now.... needs a few little touches but looks mostly finished. Thoughts?

 

[harry76]

 

[fasteddy]

Harry, that bike just keeps looking better and better every time I see it.
The rear stand is perfect and the fact that Silverbear's and mine look like it is just a coincidence. Really it is.

I am thinking that the Villiers is going to wind up on a trike later on this year. I have a trike rear end that Chain Maker was good enough to sell me a while ago and enough parts to make another Monark but with a custom tank.

Hate to think that you lads are ahead of me in building them.

Steve.
.

 

[Allen_Wrench]

And I am thinking that the Villiers engines are going to become a desirable option for those who are contemplating vintage styled builds. It runs, it'll push a bike, and it has a very vintage feel about it. I like.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Is it just the sun shine or does it look gold color, or copper? I know it is steel though.

Just a thought, but not for your racer. My dad used to oil the frame painted or not. Then throw dust on it to make it look old so no one would want to steal it. Just he did not throw the dust on the chain.

Na, the machine actually looks quite nice, rugged too!

I used to use this orsene (however it is spelled) solution, for electroplating gold onto metal. It is such a thin coating that on a motor bike it would probably get rubbed off though.

I have got another 8 hrs working today on my bike. I am working on a snout to the carb/air filter. Also getting the oil breather feed back to air filter hose routing done. Painting the new modified rear wheel pulley drive.

Now kicking back with some old home brewed beer of 27 years! I found it has the kick in it still.

Measure Twice

 

[silverbear]

Harry,
Your build is a work of art. Even if it was all just a dummy and the motor didn't really run, the wheels didn't turn... it just sat there as a fantasy machine, a boy's grown up dream. That it will propel you down the road is just the cream in the coffee. I am reminded of the Saturday matinee movies when I was a kid and the the masked Lone Ranger climbed aboard his steed and headed off into the sunset saying, "Hiho Silver, Awaaaayyyy" and galloped off into the sunset. Ah yes, this is the stuff boys' dreams are made of. Well done, sir.
SB

 

[harry76]

Measure Twice i may use your dads trick of the oil only minus the dirt like you said. lol

And thanks Silverbear i am very happy with it, and like you said even if it didnt go it would still look good as a show piece in my living room..... its the closest ill ever get on my budget to having my very own BTR. Thats why i love this hobby, you dont need deep pockets to build something nice and unique. I just wished i lived closer to you guys so i could join in for rides. That would be soooooo fun.

 

[fasteddy]

Harry,
Since you can't join us I've bought a digital camcorder so we can record our travels and share them with you.

Both the bikes are looking great.

Steve.

 

[harry76]

I was watching this item on Ebay ( 230645819701 ), a 98cc Villiers with a 2 speed gearbox. Unfortunately the $350 pricetag ruled me out right now. Really wish i had snagged that one now :-(

 

[silverbear]

I can't bring it up to look at it, but no doubt it came off of a light motorcycle. Two speeds would make a world of difference... plus the business of having to machine the crank shaft end would be dispensed with. It would be ready to mount in the bike frame and fit up a driven sprocket at the wheel. Simple.

 

[silverbear]

I managed to open up the auction listing and copied out the photos, but could not read the description.

The initial expense seems like a good bit at first glance, but when you consider what you're getting and all that you don't have to buy or fabricate since it has been done for you, actually it's a bargain. Having two speeds is a big deal and would make a light motorcycle/motored bicycle a lot more versatile. And I think that for our purposes 98CC is about right. Much more than that and I think it is pushing things on a bicycle frame... even with this engine one would want better wheels and brakes than came on the bicycle originally... probably a suspension front fork. I'm guess, too, that if this engine came off a light motorcycle it has been set up with a lighting coil... another plus.

It is why Fasteddy and I are using the 98cc 2 speed Sachs engines instead of ones like yours, much as I love your Villiars.

Consider that a pretty good 68CC HT motor will run you what, a hundred fifty or so (and it is Chinese... not British or German quality). Then for a shift kit (unless you can make your own) figure another $225.00 or so including a BB adapter) a 3 speed internal hub and add another hundred or so and you're already pushing $475.00 not including shipping. Looked at that way, the $350.00 without shipping or at least reasonable shipping since it is in country, and the auction Villiars really is a bargain, plus a better engine to begin with and of greater displacement.

Now you know what is out there and to be looked for. it isn't so much what the intrinsic value of a motor is, but what value it has for you... there may be other savings in time and money down the line. I think in general, older light motorcycles of smaller displacement are worth a look as engine donors. Gears can compensate a lot for increased displacement. What do we want anyway? Most of us just want to be able to cruise at 30 or so even if once in a while we want to goose it to pushing 40 mph for the momentary thrill of it, and be able to start off without pedaling with enough acceleration to be safe around traffic and to be able to climb hills without pedaling. If we want more than that a lot of building up is in order or simply buying a motorcycle in the first place.

Yeah, that motor would have been sweet. But there's another one out there with your name on it. All in good time.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

I'll add that the Sachs weren't much less expensive than the Villiers but they were here and there are no customs involved until I bring one back to Canada.

Harry, the lucky guy, lives where they were the main motor for motorcycles and lawn mowers. Silverbear and I will be following Harry's and CamNZ's footsteps next year with a Villiers 98cc I'm sure. The mower motors still look like the likely motor for the job.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Also when you figure that I just bought an electric hub motor wheel kit {required in Canada} for $869, the gas motor look pretty good.
I will admit that it was one of the best kits sold but that didn't include the battery.

Steve.

 

[harry76]

I definitely wasnt questioning whether the motor was worth that money, i agree it is. But i just couldnt afford that purchase atm. I really thought about it, but the timing wasnt right. And Silverbear, i hope you are right, and there is one with my name on it, whether it be a Villiers or a Sachs.