Velocar cyclecar semi-replica.

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

I'm going to blame Ludwig for this. He's always distracting me with pictures of fascinating mechanical objects from foreign parts and when he posted this picture I'm afraid it quite turned my head and I haven't been able to think of anything else.

After trying various ways of laying out the rear axle for the Colombe replica and not having much success I can now see the way ahead. A true Zen moment (no axle).
I shall build the Colombe as I intended, but it will have a 16inch moped wheel in place of the trike type rear axle and two balance wheels so I don't make a pratt of myself and have the thing fall over.
I have no idea what this rear wheel was originally fitted to, but somehow I've ended up with two of them. They are very nice, strong spokes, proper cush drive, drum brake an impressive drive sprocket. Everything an Intrepid Wheelwoman could want really. A 20inch bicycle tyre fits nicely on the moped rim too.

The Villiers engine is going to be in a much better position now too and the kickstarter mech that Steve and Silverbear sent me is going to work out very nicely.
So it's still going to be a kind of a cyclecar, but a monocar cyclecar and it is a type of velocar as well because there will be pedals. Yes there are four wheels, but two of them are balance wheels so I don't think I'll have any problems with the local constabulary.

While I was setting all this up one of the cats caught a mouse and decided to present it to me. Only the wee thing was still alive and it was only by the narrowest margin that I managed to avoid it running up my skirt. Then I was in the cats' black books because I'd let the mouse escape.
My daughter later confirmed that I'd vocalised a rather impressive, 'Eek!' that she'd heard quite clearly from inside the house.

 

[silverbear]

It is an interesting design. Will it give you what you need in storage area for hauling things?
The one in Ludwig's photo is quite good looking.

One value in giving a large project a proper amount of incubation time is for this very thing. In all of the day and night dreaming, creative staring and general research... we see things and later on the ideas percolate back up in usable form.

I've been going through some of the same process on my canoe/cyclecar. You showed me a photo of a sleek Durand cyclecar, I believe it was where from the rear of the seat the boby is ninged to fold up and give easy access to engine/driven wheel The photo solved some major problems for me.. a bit of Morgan influence, some Durand, some of this and some of that along with Harley Davidson and Grumman... and it starts coming together in the mind's eye.
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Yes it's all about looking and thinking and mulling things over SB

The monocar in Ludwig's picture is quite narrow through the body whereas I'm planning to make mine wider so the bodyshell covers the balance wheels instead of them being in pods outside the body. I'll still have my Hercules trike for heavy haulage, so if this wee monocar/cyclcar can handle the grocery shopping and other trips I make into the township to pay bills and etc I'll be very pleased.
At the moment I've been using my English Hercules ladies bicycle to perform that duty so the carrying capacity doesn't have to be that great.

I'm glad those photos were useful SB. Having the rear of the body hinge upwards like that seemed to be the ideal solution for having good access to the 'works'.
I'm very much looking forward to seeing how your own design process proceeds and finally becomes a completed cyclecar. It certainly is wonderful creative fun and I know I've been a lot more well in myself since I've been working on my own projects.

 

[Ludwig II]

I looked at the balance wheels, will they be cambered inwards to enhance their strength?

Will they also be raised off the floor a little or have some sort of suspension so the back and front wheels are always in contact with the road surface?

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

I looked at the balance wheels, will they be cambered inwards to enhance their strength?

Will they also be raised off the floor a little or have some sort of suspension so the back and front wheels are always in contact with the road surface?

I'm strongly considering copying the French 'Monotrace' when it comes to setting up the balance wheels Ludwig. I can see this being one area of the velocar that might take some experimentation to get right.

Tonight I made use of my newly cleaned up workbench which made working on the frame so much easier. I discovered an 'Auto Union' logo on the moped wheel's brake shoes, so it looks like the wheel may have come from either a Puch or a DKW.
Most of the work tonight centred around getting the moped wheel to fit properly into the Raleigh 20 dropouts. At close of play the wheel was sitting off-centre because there's a threaded sleeve nut on the brake drum side that needs to be shortened. Rather than make a mess of it I decided to leave that job for my next session.

There will be some extra strengthening pieces added to the rear triangle as the Raleigh 20 frame stays are a little on the thin side. I'm hoping that I will be able to hire a gas welding set as I really would prefer to braze the frame together.

Please ignore all the junk in the background of the photos, my workshop clean up hasn't reached that far yet.

 

[fasteddy]

The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the photo was that given the fact that four wheels are usually illegal was to tuck them up inside the body so they are less visible.
Then to add the ability to lean while turning I was wondering if a bicycle rear shock and spring like the mountain bikes have could be used. I'm not sure about their strength but if they can take the shock of going down the trails they should work.

Then I was thinking that a simple hinged A frame welded to the bike with an axle for the wheel attached to it and the shock going from the bike frame to the center of the A frame at an angle would give you support.

Just my thought any way.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Thanks Steve, that sounds to be a good way to approach setting up the balance wheels. This is all a bit of an experiment in that when the velocar is underway the balance wheels shouldn't be touching the road which to my mind means that it's still a two wheeled vehicle.
If I'm wrong and the local Police guys and girls send me home with my tail between my legs then I suppose it won't be too much work to replace everything with a normal trike axle. I really want to try this though and I guess I'm not alone in this as many an inventor in the past has had a try at designing such a vehicle. The one in the patent diagram is a particular favourite of mine. i have no idea if it was actually built or not, but it's not the only one to be found by using Google patent search.

For the sake of general neatness of design I was planning on having the balance wheels tucked well out of the way under the bodywork. With the Monotrace setup which is stuck well outside the bodywork I do wonder how often their owners fell over the things.

 

[fasteddy]

I'm sure that if the wheels are touching the ground it will be classed as a car. Of course the police have to care enough to do something about it. My first thought was the same as yours. How many people fell over while driving one of them. Plenty of them is my guess.

I tend to go with the trike rear end since it is simpler and legal. It should possible to make a lever that will pull both the side wheels up so there is no contact with the road but not so high that if you lean into a turn that it won't make contact with the road therefore making it a three wheeler since that is all that are in contact with the road.

With the shocks it wouldn't be jarring when the touches the road. Not like having the kick stand that didn't come up all the way hitting the road as you go around a corner.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

That's a good point about the shocks making the balance wheels less jarring to use Steve. One possible way to raise the wheels would be by having the top shock mounting on a lift arm. It would be nice and tidy and would reduce the need for any additional links between the lower 'A' arms and the chassis.

 

[fasteddy]

I think that would work very well. You wouldn't need the wheel to come up too far and it could all rest against a stop that would act to allow you to use the wheel in turns.
I was picturing a lever mounted just down in front of the seat so it's not in the way of you pedaling if necessary and with a way of locking so it holds the wheels up.

Now I'm drawing plans up on the pad of paper I keep beside the computer. That's better, I just slapped my hand and said NO.

I was at an auto body supply shop getting paint a couple of years ago and another chap came in as crippled up as I am and we immediately got into the what happened to you?
He was riding his Honda Goldwing around a curve and the kickstand wasn't up all the way and had dropped down and locked and then threw him into the trees lining the road as he leaned into the turn. I had a couple of scares with that but the kick stand hadn't locked and just sent me all over the road and a few brief visits into the ditches on both sides.

My favorite story of falling over on a motorcycle is one I read years ago. It happened in England and a chap was stopping for a traffic light when the motorcyclist in front of him fell over having come to a stop and not put his foot down to steady himself.

He got out of his car to run up to see how badly hurt the chap on the motorcycle was hurt only to find him lying there laughing. Seems he had just taken the sidecar off the bike the night before after using it for fifteen years and never thought about putting his foot down. They righted the bike and he rode of none the worse for wear.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Now I'm drawing plans up on the pad of paper I keep beside the computer. That's better, I just slapped my hand and said NO.

Steve.

Oh yes, the temptations of the inventive mind

Your outline of how the balance wheels might work is exactly the setup I would need Steve, - thanks for that.

I loved the story of the chap who forgot to put his foot down. Having been a keen sidecarist myself I completely understand how that might happen.

Once again a picture Ludwig posted a link to could well be of great use to this project. The approach is different in that the balance wheels are fixed, but otherwise it's a close cousin. I abandoned the idea of having the engine mounted at the front because it would have made installing a pedal crank and bottom bracket difficult; - and to stay within the definition of a motorised bicycle pedals are essential.

 

[Ludwig II]

If you want to keep the cg low, what about placing the engine behind the back wheel?

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

If you want to keep the cg low, what about placing the engine behind the back wheel?

Definitely worth thinking about Ludwig.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Alright! (rolls up sleeves) I've got a month and a half to finish this thing. After messing around with steel and trying to weld things and not being happy with wot I ended up with I'm going back to how the French did it. Like most cyclecars of the time the Colombe used a wooden chassis so I'm going to build one just like in the old magazine illustrations.

With all the other French articles & etc I have on building velocars and cyclecars in wood I've got a pretty darn good resource to draw on so why on earth was I messing around with all those sticks of rust in progress!

This afternoon I rode my bicycle down to the local timber yard and purchased two lengths of 3x2 timber (we call it 50x75 for some dopey reason). Let me say I'm glad I'm not planning on building a house because somehow while I wasn't looking timber has got expensive. For heaven's sake we grow great plantations of the stuff here in New Zealand, - only the problem is that we export all the good stuff and as a result local supplies are at a premium.
To top it off I had to get the timber yard guy to mess around and find me lengths of timber that didn't have any knots in it. In the end I had to accept two lengths with minor knots in non critical areas that I knew I could cut around. Something tells me that I'm going to go hunting in the demolition yards from now on in order to find timber that's actually worth using.

A story from my past has just popped into my head so I'll tell it to all of you.
In my twenties I had a friend who ran a classic motorcycle business and he did restorations and repairs. Quite often there would be kids of around 14 and 15 who would hang about his shop to look at the bikes. They were fairly harmless and sometimes my friend would play tricks on them. One time when I visited his shop there was my friend with a small diameter length of dowel in the business end of his arc welder and he was explaining to them completely straight faced how it was possible to weld wood.

Anyway that's enough from me. Things to do and all that

 

[maniac57]

The hardest part about welding wood is striking the arc...once you get going it's gravy.

 

[silverbear]

There's a kind of glue here in the states called Weldwood. I've never used it, but it probably works on the same principle.

It is so tempting sometimes to test the limits of children's credulity... such trust they have in authority...

Some years ago I worked as a kind of mentor for a family of adopted Ojibwa Indian children. Twelve of them. We were at a lake that day and one of them was poking into a container of night crawlers. I have no idea if that's what they are called in N.Z., but they are like a large version of an earth worm and make a good bait for catching some kinds of fish. This little fellow was examining a wiggling specimen and I knelt down next to him to share a look.

Sounding like a teacher and in a moment of devilish inspiration I asked if he could see the eyelids. I could see by his expression that having eyelids was news to him and a couple of the other's standing around wanted to see. Pretty soon they were all hooked, wanting to see the night crawler's eyes. I explained that it was difficult and took a keen hunter's eye since they are very sensitive to sunlight and keep their eyes tightly closed except on moonless nights when they open their eyes for a look around. And that's when their little legs come out so they can crawl around. That's why they're called "night crawlers", didn't you know that? Can you see where their legs come out?

Oh yeah, a couple of the older ones already knew that. More night crawlers were examined closely and I had to walk away to keep from laughing.

I'm bad. I never did fess up and no doubt more than one of them sincerely believes night crawlers take walks on moonless nights. Ha. That'll teach them to not to trust adults!
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

A wonderful story Silverbear
When my children were small I tried telling them that butterflies made butter. Their instant response was, 'You're telling fibs.' Perhaps I would have done better with telling them about earthworms having eyes

I'm going to do the hybrid thing with the Colombe. My Hercules trike is in process of having its hubmotor wheel replaced with a 450watt electric motor so I've decided to use it on the Colombe, I know some folk might say that a 250watt hubmotor wheel couldn't pull the skin off rice pudding, but it did remarkably well on my trike. If the idea works out fine I can always get a more powerful hubmotor later on.

An explore under the house yesterday turned up a Giant Boulder frame with a good solidly made suspension fork which should work with the hubmotor quite nicely. As fascinating as the Colombe's original system of 'traction avant' might be this is going to be as close as it gets. Fortunately most of my cheat will be hidden by the bodywork.
Last night was mostly spent with plotting and planning and digging out the parts I'm going to need. As tempting as it was to start cutting wood I managed to restrain myself. Today I'll do some CAD work (cardboard aided design) to check body proportions and the chassis layout and then the saws will come out.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

In case anybody is wondering the part built chassis for this is hanging from the rafters in my garage workshop. I will more than likely return to it over the Winter when a cheery blaze from a brazing torch will be much appreciated.



This is a classic photo of chaps building velocars back in the heroic pioneering days of such things. Some of you will have seen it before, but I'm posting it here because it's so much like the sort of thing I'm going to be doing myself over the course of the next month and a half.

 

[maniac57]

Anticipation is almost as much fun as riding lately.
You have a very nice eye for the style of those heroes of yore flying about at breakneck speeds on home built deathtrap speedsters...
Just remember: A cloche hat is MANDATORY for any velocar riding!

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

A cloche hat is being fought over on our local auction site as I type this. I scent victory and the scent of it is sweet.




maniac57,- I absolutely love these old photos. They represent a time when the most amazing vehicles were made in small workshops from ordinary materials with ordinary hand tools; - and then as you say driven at breakneck speeds.

I want; - I very much want. And my new year's resolution is to build wonderful vehicles using just the same methods and materials as they did back then. Hi-tech who needs it.

My idea of a proper velocar, - the young lady in the driver's seat is almost wearing the right sort of hat too.


Chassis frame for Ajatar2 undergoing restoration.