Velocar cyclecar semi-replica.
- Thread starter Intrepid Wheelwoman
- Start date
Hi,
I had the the same reaction when I first saw the cat looking at the weld. Kind of a, wait a minute did she miss a spot or that doesn't look right. As we call our three "Inspector 12". Doesn't matter which one it is they all like to drift by and have a look.
Nice to see the velo coming into being. For you it must be a blessing after planning it for so long and replanning it.
I do like the last little trike. Looks home made but it looks like a world of fun as well.
Steve.
I had the the same reaction when I first saw the cat looking at the weld. Kind of a, wait a minute did she miss a spot or that doesn't look right. As we call our three "Inspector 12". Doesn't matter which one it is they all like to drift by and have a look.
Nice to see the velo coming into being. For you it must be a blessing after planning it for so long and replanning it.
I do like the last little trike. Looks home made but it looks like a world of fun as well.
Steve.
Yes Steve the cats like to inspect everything and poke around in amongst all my bike bits. While I was just measuring and proping things together they didn't mind me being in their dining room, but as soon as I started up my grinder they were over the neighbour's fence and gone.
I didn't do much on the Colombe tonight. I put the outer chassis frame in place and tried a pair of chain stays cut from left over Raleigh 20 bits in place to see if they would work out as front frame stays.
The funcart frame is going to need to be adjusted to be a little wider at the front end to give more clearance to the front wheel and once that is done the repurposed chain stays will fit very nicely. The front bonnet/engine cover is going to extend as far as the weld line where the blue frame tube mets the dark red one. The red seat post tube is going to be cut right down and the top chain stays lowered to suit. The driver's seat will be set up over the rear axle.
Plainly I'm not going to be using the Raleigh 20 handlebars, they're only there at the moment because they make it easier to move the chassis around. With the steering I'm still not sure whether to use a sterring wheel or handlebars as I'm going to need to check the regulations to see if a steering wheel is legal on a trike or not. If it is I'd like to use a nice Morris wheel and steering shaft I've got in the stores along with a modified steering rack. If it's 'no go' I'll have to work something else out.
I would like to fit up an engine mounting under the bonnet area that can accept either a Villiers or a China Girl engine. As to considerations about gears, chains and transmissions I've got plenty of room in which to conduct experiments. As I have two pairs of Raleigh 20 forks one of them will be getting mounts to carry my nice new clone Velosolex engine. An experimental testbed this will be.
And did I mention that I want to fit up an electric motor as well to provide some boost when it's needed.
I didn't do much on the Colombe tonight. I put the outer chassis frame in place and tried a pair of chain stays cut from left over Raleigh 20 bits in place to see if they would work out as front frame stays.
The funcart frame is going to need to be adjusted to be a little wider at the front end to give more clearance to the front wheel and once that is done the repurposed chain stays will fit very nicely. The front bonnet/engine cover is going to extend as far as the weld line where the blue frame tube mets the dark red one. The red seat post tube is going to be cut right down and the top chain stays lowered to suit. The driver's seat will be set up over the rear axle.
Plainly I'm not going to be using the Raleigh 20 handlebars, they're only there at the moment because they make it easier to move the chassis around. With the steering I'm still not sure whether to use a sterring wheel or handlebars as I'm going to need to check the regulations to see if a steering wheel is legal on a trike or not. If it is I'd like to use a nice Morris wheel and steering shaft I've got in the stores along with a modified steering rack. If it's 'no go' I'll have to work something else out.
I would like to fit up an engine mounting under the bonnet area that can accept either a Villiers or a China Girl engine. As to considerations about gears, chains and transmissions I've got plenty of room in which to conduct experiments. As I have two pairs of Raleigh 20 forks one of them will be getting mounts to carry my nice new clone Velosolex engine. An experimental testbed this will be.
And did I mention that I want to fit up an electric motor as well to provide some boost when it's needed.
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I've come back for another look at the velocar. It is a satisfying photograph to study. So many things... Hinged access to the engine area, simple belt drive to the right rear wheel. What do you call that kind of suspension under the rear axle. elliptical? Anyway, whatever it is, you can see how it was done. Hand on the steering wheel, other hand on the squeeze bulb horn... in a moment it will blast out it's announcement to all to get out of the way! I want to hear the engine, see the exhaust coming out the pipe... engage the drive belt and... off we go. Woohoo! Perfect...
SB
SB
I was referring to the wonderful old photograph of the home made trike. I also like the expression on the driver's face... that of an intrepid wheel woman from another age. I want for the photograph to speak. I want to hear her talk about her machine. "Well, it is a bit of fun!"
SB
SB
Yes it's cool little velocar SB. I want to see if I can get some of that long low bonnet look with the Colombe.
(Writes on shopping list, 'Big bulb horn,)
Silverbear,
You noticed the slack on the belt of the three wheeled velo. If you look at the drive wheel on the front of the belt it doesn't move. So many of the French cars are like that and I often wondered how they tightened up the belt so it would drive and while poking around the net I found the answer.
The rear axle slid forward to release the tension and back to tighten the belt. It was hooked to a lever on the side of the car and traveled in a track. When the lever moved it pulled or pushed on two rods, one on each end of the bar attached to the lever that were attached to the axle.
There were threaded clevises on the ends of the rods so they moved freely and could be adjusted.
I also saw a modern day race in France where there were a number of these cars and it was interesting to see the drivers reach down and pull up on the lever and the rear axle slide back effortlessly and the car move off. The belts are not as tight as you would think either. They bounced up and down like an old threshing belt on a steam tractor of our youth. Explains so many of the belt covers on the side of the car.
I'll look for some of the videos on the web.
Steve.
You noticed the slack on the belt of the three wheeled velo. If you look at the drive wheel on the front of the belt it doesn't move. So many of the French cars are like that and I often wondered how they tightened up the belt so it would drive and while poking around the net I found the answer.
The rear axle slid forward to release the tension and back to tighten the belt. It was hooked to a lever on the side of the car and traveled in a track. When the lever moved it pulled or pushed on two rods, one on each end of the bar attached to the lever that were attached to the axle.
There were threaded clevises on the ends of the rods so they moved freely and could be adjusted.
I also saw a modern day race in France where there were a number of these cars and it was interesting to see the drivers reach down and pull up on the lever and the rear axle slide back effortlessly and the car move off. The belts are not as tight as you would think either. They bounced up and down like an old threshing belt on a steam tractor of our youth. Explains so many of the belt covers on the side of the car.
I'll look for some of the videos on the web.
Steve.
I know what you mean. The detail on these old glass plate negatives is absolutely amazing and it's possible to keep on with zooming into them in a graphics program and they will keep on giving without bluring or going fuzzy like a modern photo will.
Sometimes I find myself wondering who the person is in photos like these. Where did they live, what did they do. And it's old photos like these that would cheer me up when I was younger when I was told. 'You shouldn't be messing around with that stuff, it's not very ladylike.....'
An intrepid wheel woman from another age? - Yes I like that thought SB
It's really where I got the inspiration for my forum name, - all those 'unladylike' women of another century who enthusiastically embraced the new technology despite the disapproval of their peers.
Mostly hacksaw work tonight which wore me out a lot more quickly than I thought it would, but at least now you can see what it is I'm aiming for.
I dug out a 70cc Villiers slant fin engine to try it for size and I must say that it looks the part. I have a China Girl in the stores, but I think that using a truly retro engine for this project is just plain going to look better. Villiers engines are stone reliable and they don't seem to wear out. The horsepower is modest, though on the other hand that flywheel gives them some useful low end pull.
Another treasure came out of the stores tonight. Sometime ago I purchased a vintage period brass motorcycle headlamp with lots of minor dents, but with an attractive original glass and in otherwise sound condition. The reflector is missing, but I think I'll be able to find some variety of stainless steel culinary object that can be modified and polished up to do duty as a reflector.
This headlamp should be just the job for the Colombe and I should mention that I have no intention of removing any of the dents or polishing up the brass. It must've taken a good 80 years to get into its present condition so I don't want to mess with success and it can stay as it is.
I dug out a 70cc Villiers slant fin engine to try it for size and I must say that it looks the part. I have a China Girl in the stores, but I think that using a truly retro engine for this project is just plain going to look better. Villiers engines are stone reliable and they don't seem to wear out. The horsepower is modest, though on the other hand that flywheel gives them some useful low end pull.
Another treasure came out of the stores tonight. Sometime ago I purchased a vintage period brass motorcycle headlamp with lots of minor dents, but with an attractive original glass and in otherwise sound condition. The reflector is missing, but I think I'll be able to find some variety of stainless steel culinary object that can be modified and polished up to do duty as a reflector.
This headlamp should be just the job for the Colombe and I should mention that I have no intention of removing any of the dents or polishing up the brass. It must've taken a good 80 years to get into its present condition so I don't want to mess with success and it can stay as it is.
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The lamp is perfect. Your engine sure looks like the one Fasteddy let me use on my 1934 Elgin "Velocipede". My understanding is that it is a Villiars"midget" of 98CC's, orignally used on Atco rotary mowers. Love the fins on it. It has been sidetracked by not being able to find either a carb kit or a replacement carb for it. It also needs to have the clutch mechanism completed. The pulley under the engine is part of a jack shaft going to an SBP shift kit freewheel which in turn powers the 3 speed internally geared SA hub through the pedal chain.
Yes, I have too many projects. It will get finished. I have a different headlight to use for it. I bought an old brass spittoon to make into the headlight and will make the lens out of clear glass in a starburst in a field of blue stained glass. The glass pieces will be held together with copper foil soldered together in the manner of a Tiffany lamp. I had a glass studio decades ago for making custom stained glass windows. One of the intended projects over the long winter. A little art deco distraction. The bike also has a smallish, dog sized sidecar for it made from a baby buggy. Looking at the picture makes me want to get back to work on it.
Anyway, yes the villiars and the headlamp both look the part. As I understand it the engine has a nice putt putt sound to it. You can hear them on Utube by finding Atco mowers.
SB
Yes, I have too many projects. It will get finished. I have a different headlight to use for it. I bought an old brass spittoon to make into the headlight and will make the lens out of clear glass in a starburst in a field of blue stained glass. The glass pieces will be held together with copper foil soldered together in the manner of a Tiffany lamp. I had a glass studio decades ago for making custom stained glass windows. One of the intended projects over the long winter. A little art deco distraction. The bike also has a smallish, dog sized sidecar for it made from a baby buggy. Looking at the picture makes me want to get back to work on it.
Anyway, yes the villiars and the headlamp both look the part. As I understand it the engine has a nice putt putt sound to it. You can hear them on Utube by finding Atco mowers.
SB
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The lense on my headlamp is made with a clear centre held in with a copper ring and the surrounding glass it's set into has a lovely radial ripple pattern. I hadn't seen a headlamp glass made in this way before and I must say it looks very nice indeed. It's immediately apparent to be a lamp made in another time when such details were only to be expected even in the most utilitarian of objects.
I like the sound of your brass spittoon based lamp and with the lense you described SB it's going to look amazing. I never tried such glasscraftwork myself, but in my smallholding days there were several craftspeople in the surrounding area who made such beautiful things.
There is an engineering workshop in our street and it's only an easy walk from home. The guys who work there are very much old school engineers and they have the most wonderful huge lathe as well as a stunning milling machine. With where I live being a country town they handle a wide variety of work and there's always tractors and other kinds of agricultural devices in their workshop as well as cars, trucks and mobile homes & etc.
Whenever I go down there they're always very nice and helpful, - and they sell steel! This afternoon I scooted down there on my English Hercules bicycle to get some 19mm box section steel tube and it was so funny because I was presented with this lovely clean shiny looking material that had me puzzled for a moment. Because you see I'm so used to working with scavenged and recycled steel that comes in a basic standard rust colour that it took me a few seconds to realise that this was how it was supposed to look. It cost me just under $NZ10.00 a metre though which is a lot more pricey for steel than when I was building sidecar outfits when I was 30 something.
Looks like I'll have to get the batteries charged up on my Hercules trike and go down to the council tip and see what I can find for free
I like the sound of your brass spittoon based lamp and with the lense you described SB it's going to look amazing. I never tried such glasscraftwork myself, but in my smallholding days there were several craftspeople in the surrounding area who made such beautiful things.
There is an engineering workshop in our street and it's only an easy walk from home. The guys who work there are very much old school engineers and they have the most wonderful huge lathe as well as a stunning milling machine. With where I live being a country town they handle a wide variety of work and there's always tractors and other kinds of agricultural devices in their workshop as well as cars, trucks and mobile homes & etc.
Whenever I go down there they're always very nice and helpful, - and they sell steel! This afternoon I scooted down there on my English Hercules bicycle to get some 19mm box section steel tube and it was so funny because I was presented with this lovely clean shiny looking material that had me puzzled for a moment. Because you see I'm so used to working with scavenged and recycled steel that comes in a basic standard rust colour that it took me a few seconds to realise that this was how it was supposed to look. It cost me just under $NZ10.00 a metre though which is a lot more pricey for steel than when I was building sidecar outfits when I was 30 something.
Looks like I'll have to get the batteries charged up on my Hercules trike and go down to the council tip and see what I can find for free
A busy day today with bread making and laundry to do, but I still managed to do a little more on the Colombe.
At present I'm cutting parts to make the mountings for the Villiers engine and I also want to see if the countershaft assembly I have in the stores will work out Ok for this project. The countershaft was once a part of an old shearing machine and a year or two ago I swooped on it when I saw it for sale in one of the local second hand shops. In its original configuration a pivoting lever arrangement worked as a clutch by slackening the drive belt and I think the same system should work just fine for the Colombe.
At present I'm cutting parts to make the mountings for the Villiers engine and I also want to see if the countershaft assembly I have in the stores will work out Ok for this project. The countershaft was once a part of an old shearing machine and a year or two ago I swooped on it when I saw it for sale in one of the local second hand shops. In its original configuration a pivoting lever arrangement worked as a clutch by slackening the drive belt and I think the same system should work just fine for the Colombe.
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Will that have a pulley on the axle then? And will there be one continual belt running from engine to the axle with the countershaft assembly in line with it, like an idler pulley? Do I have that right? So you are sitting on your seat, the Villiars is putt putting along and you reach down with your left hand to engage/disengage power to the wheel by means of that lever... is that it?
My Villiars midget had a tapered shaft with a fitting which threads over it. As I recall I had my friend Tinsmith turn down that fitting to a dimension which would accept a standard pulley and he also cut a keyway to keep it in place.
I'm still working out how best to set up a compact idler to act as a clutch. You have the great advantage of having lots of room to work with. That countershaft assembly is the cat's meow.
SB
My Villiars midget had a tapered shaft with a fitting which threads over it. As I recall I had my friend Tinsmith turn down that fitting to a dimension which would accept a standard pulley and he also cut a keyway to keep it in place.
I'm still working out how best to set up a compact idler to act as a clutch. You have the great advantage of having lots of room to work with. That countershaft assembly is the cat's meow.
SB
Yes SB I'm going to have a lever which will loosen and tighten the belt on the left hand side. As to whether or not there will be a single long belt to the axle or a two stage belt via another counter shalf I'm not too sure as yet. I may take the drive belt to the outside and make the final drive via a sheave attached to one of the rear wheels. As you say I'm fortunate in that I have a good deal of room in which to lay out the drive and even experiment with different ways of doing it.
The Villiers engine in the photo still has the hub piece of some unknown type of pulley or drive coupler stuck on the crankshaft end. I haven't attempted to remove it as yet, but when I do I intend to work on it with the lathe so I can use it to mount a drive sprocket. The tapered ends on Villiers crankshafts can be a bit of a bother to attach sprockets and pulleys to, but at least I do have that hub piece. Somehow I don't fancy trying to cut an internal taper on my Myford as I'm sure I'd generate a lot of scrap before I got it right.
I still need to attach the outer chassis frame to the central spine, only I wanted to lay out the engine and drive assemblies first so I don't end up with structural chassis parts blocking the drive layout and having to grind off welds and start over.
The Villiers engine in the photo still has the hub piece of some unknown type of pulley or drive coupler stuck on the crankshaft end. I haven't attempted to remove it as yet, but when I do I intend to work on it with the lathe so I can use it to mount a drive sprocket. The tapered ends on Villiers crankshafts can be a bit of a bother to attach sprockets and pulleys to, but at least I do have that hub piece. Somehow I don't fancy trying to cut an internal taper on my Myford as I'm sure I'd generate a lot of scrap before I got it right.
I still need to attach the outer chassis frame to the central spine, only I wanted to lay out the engine and drive assemblies first so I don't end up with structural chassis parts blocking the drive layout and having to grind off welds and start over.
Oh I like the idea of a second counter shaft allowing a belt to sheave on the rear wheel. Very much in keeping with times past, like our Intrepid Wheel Woman in the old photograph of the home made cyclecar. That would certainly look cool. Having two counter shafts would also give you more options in fine tuning the gearing.
Thought I would include more pictures of my Villiars engine to show the pulley. I thought I had some pictures of just the shaft attachment which got machined to accept the pulley, but can't find them.
The Villiars slant fin is a good looking engine. Harry 76 used the same engine on his Villiars beach cruiser build (wonderful!) and also did a belt drive. It seemed to have good torque and gave him adequate speed for tooling around . No doubt as a young fellow on two wheels he wanted to go faster than you would on three. If you run across a source for a carburetor rebuild kit, please keep me in mind. I'd like to get this bike finished up some time or other. Have you run your engine yet?
SB
Thought I would include more pictures of my Villiars engine to show the pulley. I thought I had some pictures of just the shaft attachment which got machined to accept the pulley, but can't find them.
The Villiars slant fin is a good looking engine. Harry 76 used the same engine on his Villiars beach cruiser build (wonderful!) and also did a belt drive. It seemed to have good torque and gave him adequate speed for tooling around . No doubt as a young fellow on two wheels he wanted to go faster than you would on three. If you run across a source for a carburetor rebuild kit, please keep me in mind. I'd like to get this bike finished up some time or other. Have you run your engine yet?
SB
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My Villiars came with a kick start which I removed because it simply took up too much room. No way to have both a kickstart and be able to still pedal with where I had to place my engine. You, however, have a different situation. A kick start (as found on the Atco mowers) would be very cool on your machine and would be a convenient way to start it as well. Harry76 over in Oz may very well have an extra one as I believe he had two or three of these engines. Something to think about, eh?
SB
SB
Oh what a beautiful motorcycle SB! Having not seen pictures of your Villiers powered sidercar outfit for some time now I had forgotten what a lovely thing it is. Thanks for the photos because even with the pulley in place I can see what has been done in the way of machining.
Just a thought, the early British Seagull outboards used a Villiers carb and I'm wondering if a carb kit would be available from an outboard repair shop. Leave it with me SB I'll make some enquires.
Strange as it might seem I haven't seen one of these Atco Villiers engines with a kickstarter before. Sounds very interesting though and I must look into that. Otherwise I suppose I could devise a crankhandle starting arrangment..... hum...
No I haven't run my engine yet, but I don't forsee any problems with that as it seems to be in very good condition (famous last words, ha ha) as Villiers engines are something I had quite a bit of experience with when I was younger.
Last night during my creative staring session (with a nice hot cup of tea in hand) the notion of using a two stage countershaft and an outside belt drive was only one idea out of several, but having slept on it and thought about it further this morning I've decided that it's the best way to go.
As you say SB it's completely in keeping with the spirit of that marvellous old photograph and with a two stage countershaft it will be easier to setup the gear ratios.
Just a thought, the early British Seagull outboards used a Villiers carb and I'm wondering if a carb kit would be available from an outboard repair shop. Leave it with me SB I'll make some enquires.
Strange as it might seem I haven't seen one of these Atco Villiers engines with a kickstarter before. Sounds very interesting though and I must look into that. Otherwise I suppose I could devise a crankhandle starting arrangment..... hum...
No I haven't run my engine yet, but I don't forsee any problems with that as it seems to be in very good condition (famous last words, ha ha) as Villiers engines are something I had quite a bit of experience with when I was younger.
Last night during my creative staring session (with a nice hot cup of tea in hand) the notion of using a two stage countershaft and an outside belt drive was only one idea out of several, but having slept on it and thought about it further this morning I've decided that it's the best way to go.
As you say SB it's completely in keeping with the spirit of that marvellous old photograph and with a two stage countershaft it will be easier to setup the gear ratios.
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Here are two videos of the Atco with kick start Villiars engines. The first has a different muffler than ours, but the second is just like and shows very clearly the kick starter. Wouldn't that be nice to have? Look on the end of your flywheel to see if it looks compatible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JW-iDKvfDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KtXwg3mupc
SB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JW-iDKvfDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KtXwg3mupc
SB
Thanks for those video links SB. Looking at my engine it seems to have the necessary internally threaded long nut on the flywheel, but the gear itself is missing. Now that I've seen what the kickstarter pedal looks like I'll be able to keep an eye open for one. I may have even seen one before in the past, but not known what it was.
Those Atco mower gas tanks are lovely, - i wouldn't mind one of those.
Those Atco mower gas tanks are lovely, - i wouldn't mind one of those.
Intrepid, I can't wait to see you in a hat like that one pictured above. You'll have to share it with us, please
Tom
Tom