ultralight/moped anyone?

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle Welding, Fabrication and Paintin' started by justthisguy1292, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. justthisguy1292

    justthisguy1292 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was inspired by an ultralight flying by my house. are there any auronotic junkies here who can tell me if these engines could power a slow ultralight? I know this isn't about paint jobs but it certainly is about arriving in style. I'm thinking a large wing clamped to the front and a smaller one to the back. I know it sounds crazy, but i can't think of why it couldn't work. My plans aren't as simple as that but thats the general gist.
     
  2. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,119
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not a pilot type, but there are some here and I even think his idea has been floated before. Someone will be along to give you some information
     
  3. chrisme

    chrisme New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Whether it could or not, I wouldn't trust a cheap chinese engine to fly me around.... I barely trust it to take me more than reasonable pedaling distance from my house LOL
     
  4. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,209
    Likes Received:
    4
    Back in the early days of ultralight flight it wasn't uncommon to see 250cc single cylinders in ultralights...

    But that was scary as ****

    You probably could fly one of these engines - but there's no way you could take off or climb. The best you could hope for would be to prolong a glide in a very slippery glider.

    My Quicksilver MX had a dual carb, twin cyl Rotax 440 @ 40hp+ (w/a triple bladed carbon adj pitch prop & a few other mods) to give you an idea of what we're talking about. Although considered overpowered (engine for a 2 seater in a single seat plane) I found it to be "adequate" for the bush pilot style flying I was known for. :D

    [​IMG]
     
    #4 BarelyAWake, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  5. Ilikeabikea

    Ilikeabikea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,323
    Likes Received:
    0
    You need 35 to 40 hp. These bike engines aren't anywhere near that..................
     
  6. justthisguy1292

    justthisguy1292 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    why does the engine HAVE to be so powerful? there are a few human powered ultrlights(one of which made it across the english channel). A human in great shape puts out less than half a horse and chinese engines can put out between 2 and 5. that seems like more than enough to get it off the ground. i don't want to go soaring. just 20 feet up is all i want. even less if i can find somewhere with enough clear space.
     
  7. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,209
    Likes Received:
    4
    It's that whole difference between perpetuating a glide in a super slick plane and trying to take off short field. Unlike cars or bikes, the engine's power gives you your climb ratio - and it's just drag reduction to make you faster.

    So while you can "fly" a glider, maybe even take off with a lil tiny motor like these - you'd need three football fields or so to do it - and it better be a cold, calm day lol

    Not being able to climb is the most dangerous aspect of a plane's characteristics, as the planet is really the only thing that can hurt you - you do need to avoid it as much as possible ;)

    You could always get a hang glider, strap one of these lil puppies as a pusher motor (shaft is pointed wrong but w/e) and jump off a cliff... It would help your distance... maybe... I dunno though, what with the added weight of motor, fuel, prop, etc.

    You'd prolly end up with the same performance as you had w/o the engine, cept now its noisy heh
     
    #7 BarelyAWake, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  8. justthisguy1292

    justthisguy1292 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    there is a small airport near my house. ultralights take off from there all the time so i think i can. should be plenty long enough. the Wright brother's plane only had 12 hp so i think i can make due if my contraption is a third the weight, which it should be. I would be using the moped part of the machine to get up to 30mph and that only takes me a few seconds to get up to. my engine is pretty modified so it puts out a bit more than the average engine. thanks for all the imput. i'm pretty determined to atleast try this, so more advice on how to do instead of how its going to kill me would be more appreciated
     
  9. Tim_B_172

    Tim_B_172 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am a private pilot and I just recently got my A&P mechanic license. I don't have a whole lot of experience, for now I pick up part-time aircraft work when I can get it. That said I still wouldn't want to try it. It may be possible though, ever heard of a Cri-Cri? Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - Cri-Cri Homebuilt Aircraft
    I think that if I was going to build an airplane using these chinese engines I would want 4 of them. I know it sounds excessive, but with the right props it might just give you enough thrust.

    The one thing you said that worries me is that you don't want to go more than 20 feet high as though that makes it less dangerous. That is a common misconception, actually higher is safer, it gives you more room to correct for mistakes or glide down in the event of an engine failure. Not criticizing you or anything, just please keep it in mind if you actually get your idea off the ground (pun intended).
     
  10. justthisguy1292

    justthisguy1292 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    ya i see your point with the whole 20 ft thing. i was just trying to point out how little i'm expecting to get out of this.
     
  11. Ilikeabikea

    Ilikeabikea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Really low powered aircraft are "very very" clean and have "very long" wings and are very delicate. But if you wanna make one go for it.....................
     
  12. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    7,209
    Likes Received:
    4
    Hmm, I looked around a bit and came up with this ol goody;

    'The Lazair Twin ultralight aircraft'

    "The original proto-type flew with two 5 horsepower Pioneer chainsaw engines that spun composite fixed pitched propellers. Later models were updated to two Rotax 185 engines which produced 9.5 HP each."

    [​IMG]
    Lazair ultralight aircraft, Lazair experimental aircraft, Lazair experimental light sport aircraft (ELSA), Lightsport Aircraft Pilot News newsmagazine.


    Not that far off from what yer sayin' other than having two engines ofc It's a nice plane, I remember seeing these with the larger rotax motors that came later. Although a twin, it doesn't fly the best on only one - it pulls hard and wants to wingover. It does glide quite well tho, most of the true ultralights do.

    Seriously, if your interested go for it! Flying is unbelievable to say the least. I would like to mention that nice used ultralights with quality components and proven aerodynamics are fairly common. If it's the build yer after there are kits too - I'm not tryin' to nay say, but there's been a few broken bones tryin to figure these things out lol
     
  13. Russell

    Russell Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    8
    "Back in the day"
    Perhaps these little engines are too small for an ultralight aircraft but I have seem several foot launched delta and bi wing hang gliders with similar size engines. If the engine failed(except fire) it wasn't that big of a deal as they were more dependent on air currents than the motor.
     
  14. Kevlarr

    Kevlarr New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,628
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me put it this way, the engine my brother had in is 40% Edge 540 R/C airplane (80" wingspan) was a horizontal twin that is rated at 152cc.

    Also there's a few things on one of the bike engines that you wouldn't need in an aircraft, namely the clutch. You'd want to run your prop directly off the crankshaft so you'd have to figure out a way to pretty much lop the entire rear of the case off to get rid of the clutch then find a way to seal the hole left behind.
     
    #14 Kevlarr, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  15. TerraPilot

    TerraPilot New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Justthisguy, you are bout to become just this other statistic. Its been done to death. I know more about what it takes to fly than any other person on this thread. If you knew what I know you would place your lips to the ground and plant one big juicy kiss there. Know that if you continue along your present course you have but one more kiss and that will be when the mother earth kisses your ass goodbye. Drop the subject until you've learned considerably more.
    I hope I'm not too blunt. I also know the Wright brothers better than anyone else here too. Someone forgot to mention the Wrights had a catapult for take offs. Thats another design issue in itself, you know?
     
  16. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    10
    Until there is some tremendous breakthrough in drag reduction, a china motor alone will not provide enough power for takeoff.
    However, you may be able to takeoff with a combination of leg and china power.
    The Gossamer Albatross flew across the English Channel in 1979 on human power.
    Carbon fiber has become a little cheaper since.
     
  17. hiker472

    hiker472 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wondered how long it'd take before this subject came around again.

    http://motorbicycling.com/f28/flying-mbs-3935.html is where we were at 9 months ago with it.

    There's a lot of great info on that thread and it inspired me to build these two Flying MB's.

    .fly.cptr.
     
  18. justthisguy1292

    justthisguy1292 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    alright alright. sorry for dreaming. didn't know there was another thread. may i'll stick to a simple one wing glider thing with no engine and just run down a big hill for some fun and aviation experience. I'm in high school so i don't have the money you need for a real ultralight.
     
  19. Tim_B_172

    Tim_B_172 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    0
    In that case, tell your parents you want to take flying lessons. If they go for it, head over to that little airport you mentioned and find yourself a flight instructor. It is kind of expensive, but that's the best way to get into aviation. Actually it's pretty much the only way.
     
  20. Ilikeabikea

    Ilikeabikea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Tim I've flown into St. Joe in my airplane. Nice Airport................
     

Share This Page