"kindalikeawhizzer"

[silverbear]

Racie,
It doesn't reach as far as the piston, so should be okay.

MT,
How about carburetor cleaner for removing the carbon? That I have.

Thanks for the feedback, you guys.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

I figured that it would be a one seat body using the canoe. Pinches in at the bow or stern, I've forgotten what part we used, so that makes it difficult to use to use two seats. I think that the seat will have to be set back to have the weight over the wheel on the body side.

It may be easier to make a body to fit it. Plans for your consideration are in the works as we speak. Picture a large cheesy grin on the old boys face. He was awake all night designing it in his mind.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Oooooo I'm looking forward to seeing those plans Steve

A concern I have Silverbear is that the head casting might not be thick enough to have a useful enough thread tapped into it to securely hold the decompressor valve.

 

[fasteddy]

Anne,

I'm thinking a 1/2 scale model to see if it will work and the design looks good. Something to do while the new jack shaft for the tri car is being made. If the sprockets had been a 1/2" further apart it would have been perfect.
I'll have to toss that tape measure out since it's measuring every thing short of what it should be.

Probably use the 1/2 scale body as a trailer.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

I like the 1/2 scale model idea Steve. Some time ago I made a 1/4 scale cyclecar bodyshell based on the Carden cyclecar to see how practical building both body and chassis as a unit construction might be. I didn't take the idea further though due to the traffic regulations on 4 wheeled vehicles.

Annoying about having to make that jackshaft again though
Things being short at one end is very frustrating.

 

[fasteddy]

I know that Silverbear want's to use the other half of the canoe but sometimes it's just not practical and I feel this is one of them. Taking cues from the Seal Sociable I think we could make one easier.

Making a more interesting nose would be a priority I think. It looks like the radiator and the side panels from a car of that era were taken off and the rest was pushed down to hide the fact. I have a lot of poster board so maybe I'll do a CAD over the weekend and put it out for the jury to comment.
When I say that I have vivid images of the crowd outside the gates in the Boris Karloff, Frankenstein movie when they scream "Bring out the Monster" as they wave their torches, pitch forks and scythes.

The politically correct have run this world into the ground over the past 50 years. When I was younger making a car like the Carden would have been met with enthusiasm and best wishes but today your some unnatural being trying to upset the world order.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

Well, it is true that I have wanted to put the canoe to good use and that I have a connection to canoes. I started using a 17' Grumman solo when I was six years old in the same year this bike was made (1951), paddling from the bow end with rocks piled into the stern end so I could control it more or less in a wind. And of course I live in canoe country.

I'm also reluctant for you to get mired down in yet another of my hair brained projects. When we jumped off a cliff into the deep water of tri-cars, four years have gone by since and they are not yet finished, although the end is in sight. So, I do hesitate and don't want to see you setting your own projects aside to work on mine.

Yet, there's lots of time to think about it and I will keep an open mind. Yes, I'd like to see what you envision and maybe you're right that it would be as easy to make a body as it would be to adapt the canoe. Without having a garage to work in I tend to look at the canoe body and see much of the sociable already made. It is good of you to give thought to this and I do appreciate it, my friend.

First things first and that involves finishing up what is already started. Regarding the thickness of the metal and there being enough to thread the compression valve securely I believe there is. We'll find out anyway.
SB

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Racie,
It doesn't reach as far as the piston, so should be okay.

MT,
How about carburetor cleaner for removing the carbon? That I have.

Thanks for the feedback, you guys.
SB

That is all along the same lines. Carb cleaner is quite caustic also, if I have the words right.

And I forgot a slower way maybe, what is used for purposes like Liquid Wrench to remove frozen parts, some people use diesel fuel. Those might though be slower acting on carbon build up.

MT

 

[silverbear]

MT
Slow is good and since I am working inside my trailer with a wood stove for heat which means a constant fire, I think I'll go slowly. I often use Marvel Mystery Oil as a mild kind of penetrating oil simply because I have a lot of it. My brother gave me a gallon container that he got at a farm auction which I've been using for years. What exactly it is, I don't know (it's a mystery) but it seems to work pretty well. Think I'll see how that does. It won't hurt anything at any rate. Thanks!
SB

 

[msrfan]

Hey sb. I spent 29 years in the auto parts industry and Marvel Mystery Oil was a top seller for years. It is a great top cylinder lube when mixed with your fuel and keeps your carb clean. The guy invented the Marvel Schebler carburetor and then the oil came later to supplement them. I've always have some around and use it for penetrating, cleaning and lubricating everything from air tools to sewing machines. Now that our fuels are much cleaner and computer controlled burning, it's not as popular. I use Lucas fuel additive to keep carbon to a minimum these days.
You can make a bench seat for your canoe to maximize the width, but it still looks a bit narrow and wouldn't be as cool as the curved seat. Maybe you could cut the middle of the floor and widen it a little with a piece of aluminum. Probably have to split all the way to the front and use a pie shaped wedge to splice into it. May look weird too. Forget I suggested it. Just thinking out loud.
You should be able to remove the governor shaft and plug the hole. Check with your lawnmower shop for a point eliminator. They're around $13 to $20 and just use the magnet and coil to generate a pulse. You can do away with the problems of moisture on the points or a flat condenser and they're only about an inch square by 1/4'' thick.

 

[silverbear]

msrfan,
So the thing I was pointing at in post 271 of page 28 (page before this one) that was the governor. Thought so. Can I just leave it alone or do I need to remove and plug it? With the different carb it can't be doing anything useful, right?

The point eliminator you refer to is also called an electronic ignition module, is that right? I think I'll follow your suggestion, but wait until after I have the engine running. I was the last one to run this a couple of years ago (on a snow blower) until it developed carburetor problems. If I wait to change the ignition until after and hook it up wrong then I'll know I screwed up there and that it isn't a fuel problem with the new carb.

And one other thing I wanted to ask you, since your Briggs engines have the same kind of engine tilt on your builds... should I have the same amount of oil in the crankcase? Does it need more? My initial plan is to switch the drain plug so that it is on the low side of the tilted engine. Then set it level and give it the correct amount of fresh oil according to the gauge on the filler plug, then set it in the frame tilted and check the gauge to see where the level is on it... mark that spot so that I'll have a reference point to judge whether or not I need oil and how much. Being an older engine it may well burn oil some, so I'll be checking regularly. Anyway, will it need the same amount of oil tilted as it would sitting level? And keeping in mind that it will no longer see winter use, but strictly warm weather, should the crankcase oil be a straight 30 weight? Any suggestions regarding what kind? Whew, that's a lot of questions...

Thanks!
SB

 

[msrfan]

Yes, that's the governor shaft and lever. It moves with rpms and when attached to the carb linkage, it tries to close it. Then your throttle overrides it and allows for higher speeds. Would be cool if you made a little scale and pointer for the shaft to indicate engine revs. It would require a light return spring. Anyway, it's otherwise useless and could be left in or removed.
The point eliminator is an aftermarket electronic ignition module and really helps in cold, damp weather. You can add it at any time.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...NJesFMPZH29q3ZXBg&sig2=Rqq_snW6oBJvirVrj5hqow



As far as the amount of oil required, I use a few ounces more than the engine normally takes. Around 22 ounces for a Briggs and yours will probably be about the same. These motors do burn a little oil. I use 40w with a couple ounces of STP. It's warmer here.

 

[fasteddy]

msrfan,

I'm probably going to build a body in place of the canoe. There was a three wheeler called the Seal Sociable from 1912 that I'm going to make a close copy of. My question is will this motor pull two people at one time plus the body and frame even with proper gearing.

That's a loaded question I know but the body will be as light as possible. My guess would be in the 8o pound range if it's a two seater as Silverbear would like. With mortise and tenon construction and 1/4" luan plywood glued to it I believe that is possible. The frame will be as light as possible but maybe another thirty pounds tops.

Toss in a couple of guys nick named Moose and Ox and the motor may well have all it can do.

Steve.

 

[curtisfox]

NAPA used to carry that ignition mod. ,and if you can find a door co. they will have or can get 1/8" mahgony plywood, I can get it here in brainerd. Just a thought as it would be lighter ......................Curt

 

[fasteddy]

Hello Curt,

We have a couple of really good plywood suppliers here and they usually have 1/8" door skins or by the 4'x8' sheet. I may have to go with with the 1/4" since I'm planning a rounded nose to give more foot room for the pedals and the flexible plywood is 1/4" and will have to mate up to the plywood on the sides.

I thinking that a very thin covering of sheet steel will be contact cemented to the outside. Easier to paint and it will give good protection should it rub against something.

I need to get the tri car done so I can start on a velo car that my brother wants to build. I'll do both bodies at the same time.

Steve.

 

[cannonball2]

Here the Nova module. I have used em for years on just about everything. Very easy to install. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELECTRONIC-...597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a66b36755

 

[msrfan]

Hey fasteddy, that's a lot of weight for that little motor, so you may have to go with an overall drive ratio of 25 or 30 to 1. The vintage sociables I've read about use a twin with a 3 speed gearbox. If you could put a Peerless gearbox after the motor, I'm sure it would be a winner. I used one on my little Scout III project and they work sweet. The bonus is a reverse gear.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peerless-Te...719?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9e9ace8f

 

[curtisfox]

Hello Curt,

We have a couple of really good plywood suppliers here and they usually have 1/8" door skins or by the 4'x8' sheet. I may have to go with with the 1/4" since I'm planning a rounded nose to give more foot room for the pedals and the flexible plywood is 1/4" and will have to mate up to the plywood on the sides.

I thinking that a very thin covering of sheet steel will be contact cemented to the outside. Easier to paint and it will give good protection should it rub against something.

I need to get the tri car done so I can start on a velo car that my brother wants to build. I'll do both bodies at the same time.

Steve.

OK sounds good make sure you take lots of pictures and let us know how its done LOVE it ....Curt

 

[silverbear]

Thanks for the recommendations for the Nova II. Kind of funny since I was looking at that same module this morning. And that's a great price from Amazon at ten bucks shipped. I'll order one to have on hand.

Tried to pick up the right sized tap for the compression release valve in my local small town. It is 10mm with a 1.0 pitch, superfine thread. No deal so I'll need to go to the next bigger town after the new year when I want to pick up some other bike related stuff at my local tractor supply. No hurry. And tomorrow I'll start cleaning up the carbon deposits at the valves and piston using Marvel Mystery Oil.
SB

 

[silverbear]

Steve,
I think the Seal Sociable is great looking and really like it... was taken with it when I first saw it. As it is it is too big for my bike. I think whatever I do should be closer in size to the canoe, whether we use that or make a body from scratch. The tri-car seat is too big. Boat seats are more feasible. The canoe is 36" wide where the driver's seat would go. As I recall a kitchen chair is about 18" wide and believe a normal boat seat is about the same. If two were placed in an offset tandem arrangement I think it might be possible and if not then I'll need to revise the plan and have it be a one seater with a spot for the dog behind the seat. I have to keep this a reasonable size compatible to the bike powering it. No large women passengers allowed due to the weight restriction in the canoe or it will sink. Safety first you know. Big Bertha can walk. The CVT transmission should be okay for gearing the engine so long as the weight of the total rig is reasonable. Regardless, this is the engine I'm using, it will have belt drive and the CVT.

The Sociable's weight is going to be an issue. Perhaps a tubular frame would be better than angle iron. What were you thinking in terms of the frame? I have that dolly I bought to use for a sidecar frame, don't forget. It could be beefed up. I don't have to have a canopy top either. The simpler it is the more likely it will happen, I'm thinking.

I'm still inclined toward using the canoe as a donor, but also have not yet seen what you envision so will try to keep an open mind. We have lots of time to think about this since the "kindalikeawhizzer" bike build comes first and there are both the tri-car and Elgin Velocipede to finish up. This sociable isn't likely to happen this summer. I know I'm moving a little slower every year. I'll turn seventy in a couple of weeks, but at least I'm not as old as you are! Ha... These projects help to keep us alive and kicking, Steve. Sure beats growing up.

Keep healing up, bud.
SB