Indian Hiawatha
- Thread starter silverbear
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MEASURE TWICE
Well-Known Member
I suggest having a small enough siphon tube that allows vent for filling with the close fit through the filler hole into the tank. Have an inner diameter of the tube as large as possible but still a thickness rugged enough to last.
Then have a separate tank you can get gas at the pump and siphon from that.
You might find a siphon tube that will fit past the spring thingie that stops people and you too, from siphoning gas from your automobile. I was surprised to know that was a new item added to the 2010 Ford Ranger Truck and threw me for a loop when I first had to deal with it.
Measure Twice
Then have a separate tank you can get gas at the pump and siphon from that.
You might find a siphon tube that will fit past the spring thingie that stops people and you too, from siphoning gas from your automobile. I was surprised to know that was a new item added to the 2010 Ford Ranger Truck and threw me for a loop when I first had to deal with it.
Measure Twice
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
I'll think about the suggestions and appreciate the input. I may shorten up the threading by a couple, but it actually doesn't bother me as it is.
To me the simplest answer to venting is a small baffle inside the cap to allow for air passage, but inhibits "splashing" as the bike hits bumps while the tank is full... the hole drilled through the top of the cap doesn't have to be very big. As for filling the tank, as Dan has found, it isn't that big a deal since I fill it from a can which has a small spout. I've also used a funnel, but if the gas can spout is small then you can fill straight from the can without spilling gas.
I've yet to do it, but I have a very old metal gas can which I plan to make an adaptation to the metal cap by soldering in a short section of 1/4" copper pipe. The advantage of that is that it will slow down the gas flowing in to the tank and allow me to more closely monitor how full the tank is. A funnel cuts off your view of how full the tank is and I always ended up overfilling, wiping the extra gas, etc.
Since this is a two stroke the gas has to be mixed in a can anyway, so not being able to fill directly at a gas station is not a hardship. (Yes, I know you can mix it in the tank, but I choose not to.) About the maximum road trip I would want to take is maybe 50 miles with a break midway. I can always carry an extra gallon of gas in the sidecar if needed.
I may as well raise the issue here and now. My intention is to use Opti 2 at a hundred to one mix as recommended by the manufacturer. I know the man who sold the motor would be aghast. My friends fasteddy and tinsmith will also no doubt disapprove or at least wouldn't do it themselves. I've given it a lot of thought and can't see why not. I've used it on China girl engines and old chainsaws with good results. I like no odor, no smoke, good lubrication. I don't expect others to agree with me and refuse to give credence to those who say "oh no!" but have never used Opti 2 and have no experience with it.
SB
To me the simplest answer to venting is a small baffle inside the cap to allow for air passage, but inhibits "splashing" as the bike hits bumps while the tank is full... the hole drilled through the top of the cap doesn't have to be very big. As for filling the tank, as Dan has found, it isn't that big a deal since I fill it from a can which has a small spout. I've also used a funnel, but if the gas can spout is small then you can fill straight from the can without spilling gas.
I've yet to do it, but I have a very old metal gas can which I plan to make an adaptation to the metal cap by soldering in a short section of 1/4" copper pipe. The advantage of that is that it will slow down the gas flowing in to the tank and allow me to more closely monitor how full the tank is. A funnel cuts off your view of how full the tank is and I always ended up overfilling, wiping the extra gas, etc.
Since this is a two stroke the gas has to be mixed in a can anyway, so not being able to fill directly at a gas station is not a hardship. (Yes, I know you can mix it in the tank, but I choose not to.) About the maximum road trip I would want to take is maybe 50 miles with a break midway. I can always carry an extra gallon of gas in the sidecar if needed.
I may as well raise the issue here and now. My intention is to use Opti 2 at a hundred to one mix as recommended by the manufacturer. I know the man who sold the motor would be aghast. My friends fasteddy and tinsmith will also no doubt disapprove or at least wouldn't do it themselves. I've given it a lot of thought and can't see why not. I've used it on China girl engines and old chainsaws with good results. I like no odor, no smoke, good lubrication. I don't expect others to agree with me and refuse to give credence to those who say "oh no!" but have never used Opti 2 and have no experience with it.
SB
kevyleven007
Active Member
you know what?I have never used it but I trust your judgement and I am going to order some and try it out.
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Your right I wouldn't use it on an old engine but once it's running we'll find out soon enough if it's a good idea.I'll go with the Dave the restorer when he says no.
Better find a source of motors so we have back ups.
Steve.
My friend, trust me. The last thing I want to do is damage that engine. And I'll bet that Dave has no experience with Opti 2. I have asked on this forum if anyone has had poor experience using it on an older engine, broken in with something else. 2door says he has used it on an old snow blower along with his two stroke bikes and says the engines like it. My old Jonsured chainsaw is around 45 years old, bought used around 1970 from a logger. Who knows how many hundreds of cords of wood it has cut. It has never run better for me in the past forty years than with the Opti-2. I have not heard of one person who says the oil has wrecked an engine. I know this is a lengthy debate on our forum with the same cautions presented over and over again by people who have not themselves tried it. It is a different generation motor oil. I want to use it because it is the best I have used, burns clean without odor or smoke. What's not to like?
Dave the motor restorer is an authority on these old engines for sure, but that doesn't mean he's an authority on everything. If I thought I was taking a risk, I wouldn't do it. Everyone has an opinion and I trust that mine is an informed, sound one.
SB
leaded50
New Member
In my experiences, any oilbrand is quite okay to use, special formula? Well, point is that it lubes... On a high performance output over distance, or a supertuned engine on 100% performance, as a rallycar,dragster or similar,then it could be a question of how good it lubes.. On a normal use motor, not supertuned, it normale use approx 5% of using time (on a car motor) at full performance, a engine as yours use perhaps a little more, but not much.. Everyone if checking for shure use different oilbrands, also on this forum, but does the engines of ours get ruined because of that?
The crucial is the measurements....could one be so good, it can use a little less of it? Dont se so big trouble, test it out with the producers recommendations, and if you feel not, use a higher ratio, or if the stomach feel says other, use another brand.
I have friends using standard cheap motoroil on 30-50s car engine in 30y. now, no lead substitute, and the engines has no trouble, no extraordinary wear than others,and is as good as anyone elses who use all different additives, and high,superduper oils.....And valveguides are the original ones, who everone says gonna be destroyed without lead substitute.
The crucial is the measurements....could one be so good, it can use a little less of it? Dont se so big trouble, test it out with the producers recommendations, and if you feel not, use a higher ratio, or if the stomach feel says other, use another brand.
I have friends using standard cheap motoroil on 30-50s car engine in 30y. now, no lead substitute, and the engines has no trouble, no extraordinary wear than others,and is as good as anyone elses who use all different additives, and high,superduper oils.....And valveguides are the original ones, who everone says gonna be destroyed without lead substitute.
Just using what I've learned over the years. Your chain saw was made to run on 2 stroke oil which is lighter/thinner than 30 weight. Opti-2 is just a wonderful improvment on that.
Your chainsaw motor is using high speed roller bearings with a light weight piston and chrome rings possibly in a high grade steel liner with aluminium or much improved cast iron/steel/ cylinder and head.
With the Sachs you have 80+ year old technology and an engine with heavy cast iron cylinder and head with no liner that I know of so it runs on the cast iron of the cylinder and the heavy cast iron piston uses steel rings and roller bearings that are not of the quality that your chainsaw has and because of this and with the heat retention of the heavier cast iron cylinder holds they used 30 weight oils in a high concentration to provide lubrication since it could withstand the heat and not break down while it stuck to the moving parts.
These are not high revving engines like your chain saw.
In the days of the James,Villiers and B.S.A. motorcycles the standard warning was do not use the new 2 stroke oil in the gas. It had to be 30 weight oil.
There were any number of these motorcycles to be had for beer money with the motor apart and in a bushel basket or box needing repairs because the urge to use 2 stoke oil was too hard to resist.
Our saving grace with these motors in my opinion is the fact that they are made with high quality German engineering and materials thus we are able to get them after all this time.
Not to say that you can't use opti-2 or some other type of oil like it but just to tell you why I'm using 30 weight oil in mine.
Steve.
Your chainsaw motor is using high speed roller bearings with a light weight piston and chrome rings possibly in a high grade steel liner with aluminium or much improved cast iron/steel/ cylinder and head.
With the Sachs you have 80+ year old technology and an engine with heavy cast iron cylinder and head with no liner that I know of so it runs on the cast iron of the cylinder and the heavy cast iron piston uses steel rings and roller bearings that are not of the quality that your chainsaw has and because of this and with the heat retention of the heavier cast iron cylinder holds they used 30 weight oils in a high concentration to provide lubrication since it could withstand the heat and not break down while it stuck to the moving parts.
These are not high revving engines like your chain saw.
In the days of the James,Villiers and B.S.A. motorcycles the standard warning was do not use the new 2 stroke oil in the gas. It had to be 30 weight oil.
There were any number of these motorcycles to be had for beer money with the motor apart and in a bushel basket or box needing repairs because the urge to use 2 stoke oil was too hard to resist.
Our saving grace with these motors in my opinion is the fact that they are made with high quality German engineering and materials thus we are able to get them after all this time.
Not to say that you can't use opti-2 or some other type of oil like it but just to tell you why I'm using 30 weight oil in mine.
Steve.
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Steve,
Your explanation is the first I have heard which sounds reasonable. As I stated before, the last thing I want to do is damage this engine. And you are right, there aren't a bunch more to be found easily and at small expense. I will give your position serious consideration. Is there nothing better for these old timers than 30 weight oil? What is it that Dave recommended? Some kind of aircraft oil made by Shell, if I remember correctly. I am willing to put up with smoke and stench if it keeps the engine happy, but was hoping for a better way to go. We have time to research the best option available before either of us is ready to fire one up for the first time. I do value your experience and knowledge, as always.
Miigwetch (thanks).
SB
Your explanation is the first I have heard which sounds reasonable. As I stated before, the last thing I want to do is damage this engine. And you are right, there aren't a bunch more to be found easily and at small expense. I will give your position serious consideration. Is there nothing better for these old timers than 30 weight oil? What is it that Dave recommended? Some kind of aircraft oil made by Shell, if I remember correctly. I am willing to put up with smoke and stench if it keeps the engine happy, but was hoping for a better way to go. We have time to research the best option available before either of us is ready to fire one up for the first time. I do value your experience and knowledge, as always.
Miigwetch (thanks).
SB
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
I'm so glad I purchased the Tillotson brass fuel bowl on ebay. It arrived today in perfect condition. Five minutes of treatment with mag polish and it looks super. I picked up the brass fittings at ebay this afternoon and it will be ready for the copper tank tomorrow. Woohoo!
SB
SB
Attachments
charliechaindrive.
New Member
Looks verry sharp sb!
harry76
Well-Known Member
I just read this..... i had been running 2 stroke oil in my fuel for my Villiers, should i have been running regular engine oil do you guys think?
Nice looking fuel filter, looking forward to seeing your tank done.
Harry,
That's a good question and I wish someone with small engine knowledge would tell us for sure. Given the improvements in oil over the years, 2 stroke oil it may well work but on the other hand these old engines were designed for regular 30 weight, heavy bodied oil and I was always told that it was a must by people far more knowledgeable that me so I'm parroting what I heard.
It just makes sense so I pass it on.
Steve.
That's a good question and I wish someone with small engine knowledge would tell us for sure. Given the improvements in oil over the years, 2 stroke oil it may well work but on the other hand these old engines were designed for regular 30 weight, heavy bodied oil and I was always told that it was a must by people far more knowledgeable that me so I'm parroting what I heard.
It just makes sense so I pass it on.
Steve.
robbomberbomyea
New Member
love the fuel bowl for sure,does anyone make anything like that still or do i need to hunt around for a used one?
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Meant to say I got the brass fittings at Ace. Old fuel bowl from ebay. I'm no expert on this for sure. I did a search on ebay for fuel bowls and of course there were many pages worth. Most were automotive and almost all were glass bowls. I didn't even know there were brass ones, but I saw this one and it sat for one week, the price got dropped a bit and I bought it for around seventeen dollars with shipping from a guy who restores scooters. This one came off of a Cushman and is smaller than an automotive version. I have an old Evinrude outboard engine In Minnesota I'll be dismantling this summer, but didn't want to wait. It might well be that a small engine shop that's been around for a long time would have one... worth asking around I would think. Glass allows you to see that fuel is flowing and if there's gunk in the bottom of the bowl or water in the gas, but this one isn't going to break if I drop it and has a nice old timey look.
SB
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Steve,
If I remember correctly Dave the Motor Man suggested using Aeroshell 65W which is a straight 30 weight aircraft oil for four stroke engines. Here's some info.
AeroShell Oils W65, W80, W100, W120 | Shell Aviation
Would you check with Dave by email to be sure this is what he was talking about? Now where to find it. I located a source on ebay. Only $350.00 for a 55 gallon drum not counting shipping. Need to have a source for the stuff if we're going to use it. Where, a small airfield? Also, at what mix... how many ounces per gallon?
SB
If I remember correctly Dave the Motor Man suggested using Aeroshell 65W which is a straight 30 weight aircraft oil for four stroke engines. Here's some info.
AeroShell Oils W65, W80, W100, W120 | Shell Aviation
Would you check with Dave by email to be sure this is what he was talking about? Now where to find it. I located a source on ebay. Only $350.00 for a 55 gallon drum not counting shipping. Need to have a source for the stuff if we're going to use it. Where, a small airfield? Also, at what mix... how many ounces per gallon?
SB
Egor
New Member
Harry for your oil dilemma my advice is never go back in time except to buy an early motorcycle. Always run the best oil you can get your hands on. The only reason they used ordinary engine oil is that is all they had. There is more than ten times the lubricating ability with the new oils, you can also run at least 50:1 with no worry. I have an old Bultaco Matador and it loves the new oils, and no fouled plugs. Your Iron barrel Villers would harbor more heat but that is what the new oils are good for and if you like you could use the synthetic that will take the heat any engine could produce. Have fun, Dave