Indian Hiawatha

[fasteddy]

Charlie,
Here's a link to velo's They can be three or four wheeled if pedal only or three wheeled if motor and pedal. Body style can be new looking or old, any build material you want.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...5bDYCQ&usg=AFQjCNFFlvlReLuaJc-Wt235yKXctFdflw

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

And here's the link to a thread on Velocars here on the forum.

http://motorbicycling.com/f44/velocars-other-interesting-vehicles-34913.html

SB

 

[fasteddy]

Here is how the velo car started and one of the first ones.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...04X8CQ&usg=AFQjCNFZX3Aq3S1sFkOfT3a4uF2C86yADQ

Steve.

 

[charliechaindrive.]

oh, those are cool! wonder how hard a neracar would be (thats what i thot velocars were in the first place)

 

[silverbear]

And now back to our regular programming. Dan and I made good progress today as the photos will show.The hardest part of this process is in making the pattern. It took a couple of tries to get it right before Dan could start tacking the tank together. This is the whole purpose in making the prototype out of tin... to establish how to make it and come up with the pattern. Even though this tin tank won't be used, it is critical in making the copper one.
(cont.)
SB

 

[silverbear]

So the tank gets tacked together with spots of solder. Since it isn't going to be used, there's no point in soldering around each joint, just enough solder to hold the tank together. We determined that making it this way will work and there is no need to make an inner "backbone" to give it the proper shape. No clamps were used, but there were a few times where extra hands were needed to hold pieces together.

Next up is the part where you hold your breath a little... seeing if it fits the frame as intended.
(cont.)
SB

 

[silverbear]

The fit is perfect and we were both very pleased at how it looks. This prototype has no bung or outlet, but we did set a bung in place to see where it should be located. The tank looks fine in tin, but the copper version should be a knockout. We'll start on the copper one next Saturday in the Tinsmith's shop. See you then.
SB

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Silver Bear, I know you have a vast knowlege of the old motor bikes, so if you can see if what I think was a compression release on a 1940's Norman Motobyk. I have posted 3 pictures of this Norman I saw in a museum on Harry's Villers Boardtrack Racer post #97.

http://motorbicycling.com/f36/villiers-boardtrack-racer-30023-10.html#post349330

Also you can check out the 100 year old Indian and Harley I took pics of. The Indian has front leaf spring that has some connections that go throught two slots cut out in the front fender. Sort of unique I thought.

Measure Twice

PS, I tried web searches but no specifics on the Norman as of yet.

 

[silverbear]

Fasteddy knows a lot more than I do about the old engines, but the compression release you're talking about in the third photo of the link you provided looks very much like the one on my German Fitchell & Sachs engine. That would be my guess.
That 1913 Indian is a sweetheart. I like that Harley, too. Love the old motorcycles. You're lucky to have that museum close to you. I've never seen a real old one 'in person'.
SB

 

[curtisfox]

WOW! WOW!
Thats awesome. Now all you need is the Monark springer fork. I am looking at the fender braces and was wondering what size bolt was in it? Being that I will be useing drill rod insted of sholder bolts i can get any size and drill it right to start..........Curt

 

[silverbear]

Hey Curt,
Do you mean the size of the axle at the threads? I don't know, but maybe Dan can measure it for us. If I remember right the front hub is an Atom made in France, so I suppose it is a metric size. I don't remember if I drilled out the brace holes bigger or not. don't think I had to, so I guess the holes are a standard American size. Not much help, am I. So do you want the size of the axle or the size of the holes in the brace?
SB

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Fasteddy knows a lot more than I do about the old engines, but the compression release you're talking about in the third photo of the link you provided looks very much like the one on my German Fitchell & Sachs engine. That would be my guess.
That 1913 Indian is a sweetheart. I like that Harley, too. Love the old motorcycles. You're lucky to have that museum close to you. I've never seen a real old one 'in person'.
SB

Actually a 1K miles round trip, but I was down there in Southern California for a visit. Sure am glad I missed that Hollywood street scene with a crazy out to end his life and others shooting it up till he ran out of ammo and then took out a knife, but it all soon ended then. Just one injured, the crazy guy to the morgue.

On a brighter note I went to the San Diego Automotive Museum while
in the area and you'll like to know I spoke with the owner of the James. He is docent there too. He showed me this bike the James. Notice the expansion chaimber with the dual exhausts.

I will also throw in for good measures a WWII 1942 Indian and the Steve McQueen Motorcycle!

I spoke with the staff about the scene where Steve M. steels a motorcycle in that WWII escape drama in Germany. I thought that the motorcycle as I remembered seemed to look as big as the Indian. With that they mentioned that a motorcycle of what was pictured was never capable of doing the stunt and jumping over the barbed wire fence. How it was done, not sure. Steve M. had I know a lot of experience with motorcycles, but that one was just for movies I guess?

Measure Twice

Thanks Silver Bear for clarification not Ames but James the name of the motor bike!

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

The lines of the metal bent to shape for holding the rear and front fenders are a nice style. The fender orament, that is just great. You should have little spot lights on it at night

Measure Twice

 

[silverbear]

That first one is a British made James. They were supposed to be really nice light weight motorcycles. As I recall Fasteddy said he had one of those when he was young.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

Measure Twice,
In answer to a couple of your questions. That is indeed a decompression valve. Those little engines had a surprising amount of compression and with the gas in those days it was an at least a once a year job to decoke the engine. You had to pull the head and scrape the carbon/coke off the top of the piston and the head. There were tools to do that so you didn't scratch the piston and cause hot spots on it.
Mostly caused by cheap gas that was made usable by adding lead so I was told. The decompression valve made it easier to start with the kick starter.

With the carbon build up I've had them slide the rear wheel when you dropped the clutch doing a running jump start due the increased compression.

The brake handles are usually installed in the end of the handle bars in Europe and Britain. Just the way they did it.

I did indeed own a James from the early fiftys. Fine little bike and peppy for 98cc. Owned Frances Barnett motorcycles as well and a DOT. They had 198cc and 250cc engines as I remember but that was nearly 50 years ago.
Like to have them back for the $50 and $75 I paid for them. Really like to have the 2 1939 Triumphs that I bought for $150 for the pair.

Dusted them off and replaced the coils and with a tank rinse and carb rebuild/wash out they ran. They were a bear when you got into the cobblestones between the streetcar tracks where I lived.
The springer forks took over and smashed your knuckles against the tank sides as you fought for control and brother I mean smashed. After I was able to get back on the pavement it felt like someone beat them with a baseball bat and looked like it as well.
The guy behind our house was an old motorcycle racer and builder and he took one look at my bandaged hands and said I see you found out about the streetcar tracks. Thanks Reid

Heres some info on the Norman Motobyke

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...s-27Bg&usg=AFQjCNFMagPxhZu2TWZk9PP4KgcPw9Bz7w

Steve.

 

[curtisfox]

Hey Curt,
Do you mean the size of the axle at the threads? I don't know, but maybe Dan can measure it for us. If I remember right the front hub is an Atom made in France, so I suppose it is a metric size. I don't remember if I drilled out the brace holes bigger or not. don't think I had to, so I guess the holes are a standard American size. Not much help, am I. So do you want the size of the axle or the size of the holes in the brace?
SB

If its standerd axel don't worry about it I will just go by the one on my Monark that I have in the garage. What you should do is give the size or the depth of the hole in the brace so i can get a long enough bolts to clear. I see that it has somewhat of a hub like on the brace.........Curt

 

[charliechaindrive.]

Nice! Can't wate to hear this thing run! Thanks for the link measure twice, going to look fo ways to make a comp. Release on the brigs and stratton thing I'm helping choppercrazy build

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Thanks for the info FastEddy!

The broken compression relief lever was maybe because when last used the person felt that no compression had been released. Maybe carbon clogged the compression release itself?

So there are actually a few parts that are showing external of the cylinder head for compression release other than just a small notch which the cable leads to. Sort of thought so, but didn't know the compression was high for those.

Maybe you also saw the first German Fighter starter engine for the Jet Engine on the post above it. 10 hp for a 2 stroke twin weighing 35 lbs, don't know if it would have the right rpm to be useful on a motor bike, but it turned the turbines to 2K rpm to fire it up on the ground as they said. The pull ring showing, like a recoil start I suppose. Do you suspect that the weight to horsepower on that engine did so well as I see due to also a very high compression ratio? Secondly what do they possibly mean by on the ground restart jet engine, could restarting in the aloft be done by some other means? The placard in the museum did not mention anything though. Maybe a reserve of compressed air to get it going again, but quicker than a few minutes as on the ground.

Too bad with age the increased compression ratio you mention of was not like just shaving the cylinder head down a bit to increase pressure, it also left particles to heat up and clog stuff. I've heard of pouring kerosene into the intake and flooring it on automobile engines to burn out carbon without dismantling the whole cylinder. You can imagine click and clack the tappet brothers doing that! Got to remember to listen for them tomorrow Sunday.

Measure Twice

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Nice! Can't wate to hear this thing run! Thanks for the link measure twice, going to look fo ways to make a comp. Release on the brigs and stratton thing I'm helping choppercrazy build

Check on this website, because I saw some one making one from scratch is what I thought I saw. The 4 stroke if that is what your using Briggs, probably not too necessary with the 3 hp like what I have. Up in the 10 hp's an up I suspect yes.

It was Msrfan http://motorbicycling.com/f36/briggs-stratton-compression-release-27573.html

and you were there today. It does look relatively simple, but must seal the oil from leaking from the crank case.

You know what I really liked were the ratchet click click click type starters on the Toro mowers. That could be used on the motor bike. If there is kick back, you could just use a ten foot pole the next time you are to press the start button after winding the spring!

This sorta like turn your face away and extend your arm with cord in hand. That 120 volt outlet 30 amp can give suprise when you first try out a toaster repair and are expecting bright light.

Measure Twice.

 

[charliechaindrive.]

Check on this website, because I saw some one making one from scratch is what I thought I saw. The 4 stroke if that is what your using Briggs, probably not too necessary with the 3 hp like what I have. Up in the 10 hp's an up I suspect yes.

Measure Twice.

Ok then. I'll pas the word onto chopper to quit trying to figure out how to do that then