Break in secrets

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by wayne z, Dec 25, 2010.

  1. Goat Herder

    Goat Herder Gutter Rider

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    My great grandfather used the stuff on hid knees for his arthritis...Good stuff. I use it when I have to pick a lock.
     
  2. wayne z

    wayne z New Member

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    WD 40 uses propane for a propellant. Be careful when spraying it into an assembled motor. I sprayrd some once in an old chainsaw that had not run in years, and when I pulled the rope to suck it into the motor it fired up unexpectedly and ran WOT for a couple of seconds.
    There's no way that WD 40 will hurt a motor by spraying inside of it. I've used prolly gallens of it in the last 40 years. It has never gumed up anything i've used it on.
    It does dry up quickly though. Guns sprayed with might start getting corrosion sooner than with light oil.
    NAPA sells a light oil aerosol that hangs around a lot longer than WD 40.

    The story I got on it's orign was that the millitary was trying to develop a good wing de-icer fluid. On their 40th try of different formulas, one of the scientist realised that this #40 formula was a good penetrating oil.
    So the WD might be for "Wing Deicer" rather than the other story about "Water Displacement"
    Ask any locksmith, any oil will gum up tumbler locks, for oil collects and holds dust and drebris. The proper lube for locks is graphite powder.
     
  3. Predator303

    Predator303 New Member

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    YEs I heard that too and that they start to bring it on the market because they realized its cleaning capabilities. I loved to use it to clean my turbo engines and get nuts and screws open that would otherwise be impossible to open. Back in Germany when I had my turbo cars, my friends made fun of me telling me my license plate should be WD-40 because I used it for everything.
     
  4. Goat Herder

    Goat Herder Gutter Rider

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    The Lock Smiths that I learned how to work locks from used Liquid Wrench and swore by it.
     
  5. dmb

    dmb Active Member

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    wd-40 is popular with the jet ski's. drying wet electrics and starting water flooded motors. always in the storage box with a plug wrench and jumper cables.
     
  6. wayne z

    wayne z New Member

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    Yes, Liquid wrench is great for locks. It's loaded with graplite. That's what gives it that dark color
     
  7. dracothered

    dracothered New Member

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    One thing WD-40 shouldn't be used on is your drive chain as it will collect all kinds of grim. Get some chain lube as it keeps the drive chain lubed up, but doesn't collect the grim like WD-40 does.

    Back to the engine topic... WD-40 IIRC it makes a good diesel starter fluid.
     
  8. ckangaroo70

    ckangaroo70 Active Member

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    Bon Ami, Baking Soda, Ajax, etc. etc. There have been alot of tricks over the years to try to get rings to seat. Most of those tricks came when rebuilders started using hardened chrome rings in place of the old steel rings. They would blow a bit into the intake and then hope for the best. Of course I would NEVER do any of these on a China 2stroke that DOES NOT have hardened chrome rings and still wouldn't do it if they did. Just find it interesteing when someone mentioned WD-40..reminds me of all the tricks I have read or seen over the years regarding best ways to quickly seat rings.

    My prefered way is patience and time and a dino oil break-in mix of 32:1. I like to try to keep the engine under a gentle load by looking for gentle inclines to ride up and down. Do this for 20-30 minutes to get the engine good and warm and then shut it off for at least 10 minutes before taking another cruise. I also like to throw in a few full throttle burst, but only for a few seconds at a time. Ride like this for a couple gallon and then I switched to Opti-2 mixed to around 75:1. Most of my engine experience relates to my hobby of building and converting 2 stroke trimmer engines into model aircraft engines for several years. So that experience does not mean that it directly applies to the HT 2 stroke engine, but both HT 66 2 stroke engines I have had both run fantastic and exceeded my expectations once broken in using the same similar methods I use on my other 2 strokes which is basiclty trying to keep the engine under a gentle load and to heat cycle.
     
  9. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Santa Cruz Scooter Works

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    Putting an abrasive in your cylinder is ignorant and isn't an old trick to
    seat your rings but a myth. Kind of like adding sugar to your gas so your motor can run sweet.
    It's great if you have the time to slowly break in your motors but if your like me and only use your motor for racing. Then wd40 is the quickest way.
    Can I ask why would you run a 75:1 ratio on a motor that actually has a load on it? I can understand doing it on an airplane motor because it doesn't have a load on it. Lubrication is the most important aspect for prolonging the life of a two stroke moter. Why would you want to deprive a motor of oil? Isn't that like running your car a few quarts low of oil?
     
  10. scotto-

    scotto- Custom 4-Stroke Bike Builder

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    One of the best ways to break-in an engine that you're going to use at WOT alot is to ride it like you stole it from day one. Some engines on the other hand need heat cycles for proper break-in so you don't peel of the thin chrome or nikasil plating on the cylinder walls. It's all about getting your rings to seal (seat) as well as possible.

    dnut
     
  11. JonnyR

    JonnyR New Member

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    opti2 is a new 2 stroke oil that "supposedly" can be thinned out to 100:1 but i dont by it im going to buy some and see how it does at 40:1 maybe 50:1
     
  12. ckangaroo70

    ckangaroo70 Active Member

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    A myth? Hardly not. My brother worked as a mechanic at a Massey Ferguson dealer and it was common practice to seat new chrome rings using Bon Ami. In fact it was common at most tractor dealers years ago to help seat the harder rings that were being made. In fact..it is common practice for the old gas engine collectors. Not something I would try personaly, but it is hardly a myth. Do a google saearch and you will find many who have done it. Like I said..I wouldn't do it, but it has been done alot over the years with some success by some and failures by others.

    I do some racing also, but it is racing airplanes around pylons. We load our airplane engines with propellers(I use a 9X7 APC) A zero load on one of my Jett 50 2 cycle engines turning 18000 rpm would result in critical failure. The right loaded prop and right fule mixture is must! I mix all my own methanol alchohol using a Klotz 80&syn 20% Castor blend in my alchohol burning engines and I mix my 2 cycle gas burning airplanes to the same mix as my bike. I also have alot of experience working on Pre- 1985 Mercury Outboards and I can say with confidence that oils have come a very long way in the last 80 years.

    The synthethics offer fantastic lubricating, but alot of them have a lower flash temperature(Point at which it burns) then other dino or an oil like Castor which has a very high flash point and is more forgiving of a lean run, but can really make a mess. It has been my experience over the years that the synthethic oils burn nice and clean and will do a great job, but will not tolerate lean running like something like Castor will. So you should now how to tune an engine before using a synthethic in my opinion. The Opti-2 at 75:1works really well for me, but I would not dare move my c-clip to the top position using because syn's are not near as forgiving in a lean run. Just my own experience and two cents worth.LOL
     
  13. ckangaroo70

    ckangaroo70 Active Member

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    If you are bored..here is some pretty good reading on the subject. Not directly related to our bikes, but some good info all the same.
    http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm
    I think it mainly points out that a good oil mixed to the right viscosity is key for the engines we are using. The old neighbor guy always told me that there was no such thing as too much oil, but in fact it is possible to have a 2 cycle mix to thick or to thin depending upon tollerances and the engine being used and at what conditions and ooperating temperatures it is being used at. Lots of different factors to consider for sure and enough to make my pea sized brain hurt!lol
     
  14. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Santa Cruz Scooter Works

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    First you write this and now you're racing high quality airplanes? No offense but there's a difference between the weight of a 200lb person on a bicycle compared to a 3 lb prop to put a load on a motor. I see other things I can rant about your post but I really don't need to turn this into a pissing match. This is about break ins. I agree with Scotto and run the crap out of your motor from day one. Realistically, most people including myself don't have the patience to ride slow for the first couple of tank fulls. Especially for a motor that cost under $200.
    Also to be honest, I don't know what Bon ami is but I do know what Ajax is.
    When you said some success by some and failures by others...then to me that means it doesn't work there for is a myth.
    With that said: WD40 FTW! :)
     
  15. wayne z

    wayne z New Member

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    The Bonami powder is not a myth. I've also heard the stories from old time mechanics abput using it to seat the rings in large diesel engines in the past.
    They would use about a teaspoon's measure dusted into the intake with the engine running.
    Also, even today, there are Aircraft engine rebuilding companies in the midwest that pre-seat the rings in engines by mounting the piston and cylinder on a special machine that cycles the piston in the chromed bore with a fine lapping compound, on the bench.
    Google it like he said.
     
    #75 wayne z, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  16. ckangaroo70

    ckangaroo70 Active Member

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    Who is pissing..I am just offering up a bit of opinion and a few things I have seen and done. Please don't take any offense because I really wasn't trying to offend...just offering up some 2 cents from someone who has way too many hobbies that all involve 2 stroke engines.... except for my mandolin playing. Hard to find many pissing matches in the mandolin forums!LOL
    Yes..I have way too many hobbies and too many that envolve engine tinkering. Here is a vid of me tinkering with one of my many converted weed wacker engines if you are interested.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftASjepWrz4
    I was only stating that because I am a bit of a tinkerer and they seem to be about the closest thing to these china engines where the tolerences are not all that fantastic. The weedeater engines are a bit on sloppy side as well in construction. At least the Ryobi 28's and 31's are. As far as my 2 Motorized bikes I have had....I can only say that waht I have done thus far has worked out well, but we all know what the farmer said when his mule died "Well..he never did that before." So really just trying to enjoy the forum and when WD-40 was mentioned for break-in...it just got me to thinking about all the different things I have read on all the various engine forums I have visited for my various hobbies over the years. The main thing I have learned over the years is that NO TWO PEOPLE DO THE SAME THING EXACTLY THE SAME. Everybody has there own methods and I say if it works....then go for it. Peace brother.
     
  17. ckangaroo70

    ckangaroo70 Active Member

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    Wayne is correct..I was talking about my experience mixing fuels for some of my racing planes. Here is a video where I am experimenting with a batch of fuel. Lots of trial and error. I used an old O.S 40 for a test engine before using it the much more expensive Jett 50.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEo8iK5CZM
    I only relate this to motorized bikes because it has envolved trial and error as well and I may decide to change my mix in my China Girl 66 if I think I may not have it right. I am never too big headed to think I am always right and am always more then happy to listen to good advice and form different formulas if I think it is needed.

    I have never tore one of my China Girl's down, but I have read that the rings are pretty poor material. I wonder if someone has ever contactd Frank Bowman and had him make a set of rings for a China Girl engine? Frank can make a ring for absolutely anything if you send him a piston and all his rings are lapping piston rings which eliminates the ring gap and can really up the power on a 2 cycle engine.
    A guy might need that bonami to get those to seat!LOL
     
  18. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Santa Cruz Scooter Works

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    Sorry but we're talking about or "abput" small 2 stroke motors not large diesel motors. I admitted I didn't know what Bon ami was. On your next motor break in let me know how the bonami works. Personally I wouldn't shove a powder down my carberator intake or down my cylinder.
    And yes I knew he was talking about model airplanes.
     
  19. ckangaroo70

    ckangaroo70 Active Member

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    I sure wasn't suggesting anyone use it or attempt it. I was just saying when I read the bit about using wd-40 to seat the rings that it reminded me of other ring seating tricks I have read in the past. Didn't mean to imply that your method of using wd-40 is wrong even though I probably wouldn't do that either, but like I said...you say it works good for you, so please share your experience with it and let the readers decide.
    If someone wants to use bonami...I say go for that as well, but I sure wouldn't. Something about putting grit in the cylinder just seems wrong although I have used baking soda before when honing out one of my John Deeres Kohler K-181 engines doing a rebuild, but they get wiped clean with Marvel oil when done.
     
  20. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Santa Cruz Scooter Works

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    Sorry Bro but it was addressed to Wayne. I saw your plane vid and its a sweet plane. I've flown brushless planes and destroyed everyone of them. lol I know gas planes are harder to fly. With that said: I'm done. :)
    Peace
     

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