Are we in the electric Vehicle Revolution?

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16v4nrbrgr

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Mar 17, 2012
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Hey biknut, what's the wattage of the kit on your friend's bike? It must be about 3000W to be able to do over 40 MPH pedal assisted, 750W = 1 HP.

I'm not arguing against eBikes, I think they're great, but they are also expensive and lack power if they have range, or they lack range if they have power, if you want both you gotta load up with a lot of expensive batteries or add a lot of weight which cuts down on your acceleration and your top speed since acceleration runs draw down the max voltage which provides the potential to get the motor spinning at max revs up against back-EMF.

I guess if I spent a ton of money on my ebike I'd try justifying it anyway I can to myself and enjoy the feeling of belonging to an exclusive club that an expensive belonging must bring. I didn't spent very much on mine so I just enjoy short trips with REAR WHEEL burnouts, power wheelies, and power drifts which are really fun and make the razor dirtbike very much like a four stroke CRF motard. Traditional electric bicycles appeal to a crowd not normally interested in motorcycles or the sounds or sensations which they bring, hence the advent of FWD hub motors (FWD Bike? LOL) and normal powered kits which typically follow electric bicycle law with a top speed of 25 mph and a wattage under 1000W so the range is acceptable with normal battery packs and a bit of pedaling on flat ground. This is cool if you want a mild bike to commute reliably and don't want to break a sweat pedaling. If you want something more powerful and fast, especially with some range to it, the prices go up exponentially. On a cost/value basis for an entertaining bike with ripping performance, gas is still the best value for your performance dollar. For adequate pedal assist with range you can put together a kit for less than a $1k that will have decent range, most people are just looking for that, but it's still a lot of money compared to a better performing HT kit or mounting another type of gas engine yourself.

They'll get there eventually, but right now, if you're an early adopter, you're paying the cost which that brings. If I had the choice between a $10k ebike with batteries and motor of unknown longevity, VS a $10k Ducati Panigale, Honda VTR1000, Aprilia RSV4, KTM RC8R, Ducati Hypermotard, KTM Duke, street plated CR500, or a number of other relatively quiet and awe inspiring superbikes for less, it wouldn't be hard to see which is the better value.

In reality, if I had $10k to spend on a vehicle, it wouldn't be on a bike at all, I'd get a used Porsche Boxster S or maybe a mid-2000's Mercedes AMG sedan, I won't spend more than $2k on a bike build because I can't use them every day where I live and with the number of hours I work anyways.
 
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miked826

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Aug 6, 2011
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I'm at $1200 in LiFePo4 batteries for 6.5kW 40Ah 64.8V installed on a homegrown $2300 mid-drive ebike for a grand total of $3500. I'm not sure I can keep the price any lower than that, with those specs. Unless I was a corporation building on a huge scale.
 
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biknut

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Sep 28, 2010
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16v, your argument is flawed. You sound exactly like me, 3 years ago. Man was I a irritating pia lol.

Dal's bike is living proof you don't know what you're taking about, and neither did I. He has at least 3000w, probably more, and he has 40 ah. Trust me he has both speed, and range, and his bike didn't cost any more than Stunner.

Stunner can't even get it's butt out of it's own way crossing a street, and has a maximum range of 45 miles going any speed. Dal's bike will do a burnout from a stop without trying, and has a minimum of 40 miles range at top speed. Running at normal speed it has well over twice that range.

On top of that, if that's not already enough, Dal's bike is practically maintenance free. Stunner is what most would call high maintenance, same as most china girls.

All things considered it's pretty hard to justify a gas bike now, especially for the long term, and the numbers bare me out.
 

Easy Rider

Santa Cruz Scooter Works
Jan 15, 2008
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This is my friend Dal's ebike. It looks like a regular bicycle, but it goes 40+ mph and will do front tire burn outs. It has 40 wh of battery in the saddlebags.

He's never ridden a gas motorized bicycle. I don't even think he's a motorcycle rider. He's just a guy that wanted an ebike so he made one a few years ago. About the same time a dinosaur like me got into gas motorized bicycles lol.

That's my definition of a sleeper! LOL
Can you imagine people's faces in cars when some Dude on a women's bike keeps up or flys by them. Haha
 

biknut

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Sep 28, 2010
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It's pretty easy to imagine the look on their faces. It's a lot like when I ride by lol.
 

biknut

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Sep 28, 2010
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That's my definition of a sleeper! LOL
Can you imagine people's faces in cars when some Dude on a women's bike keeps up or flys by them. Haha
Absolutely, Dal's bike doesn't look like much, but sometimes that's a plus. At the Critical Mass ride we went on last Friday, it was hard to tell his bike was an ebike.

A gas bike would have been an entirely different story.
 

miked826

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Aug 6, 2011
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Most cops don't even know what a e-hub motor even is, and I can guarantee you that none of them can look at an unlabeled shrink-wrapped battery pack and know how many watts it outputs. Your bikes power is whatever you tell them it is. Cops have zero ability to challenge or verify anything that you tell them. I'm gonna have 7kW of concealed, guilt free, asphalt wrinkling power. LOL
 

miked826

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And of course you'll be telling the cops it's only a 750 watt motor. :)
I have told them that before on my last bike and they had absolutely no reference to either confirm or deny it. They just give me a blank look back and a lot of silence. It's like I was speaking Chinese to them. LOL
 

miked826

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Aug 6, 2011
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Of course if a cop says he has you on radar doing 60MPH on any type of bicycle, then youre gonna have a lot of explaining to do and I doubt the cop will buy anything you tell him. No matter how much high tech science and physics you throw at him. laff
 

miked826

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You can tell him that since your batteries are in series, they only put out 12 amps max. Haha
"Amps", "volts", "watts", "cells", "series", "parallel", "Ah" and "kW". All are terms that will simply get a blank face stare back from any cop. They simply don't have a clue about what the h3ll youre talking about. I just quote that I have the legally allowed limit to them. Makes them happy. LMAO
 

miked826

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Cops know one thing extremely well and that is M.P.H. If a cop catches you going 60MPH on a bicycle then it better be while you're riding off a cliff. If you get caught on a city street, then you're doomed, no matter how you reached that speed. LMAO

 

biknut

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Sep 28, 2010
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One cop I talked to a few weeks ago accused my Bomber of being an unregistered motor vehicle. I told him, no it's not, it's electronically limited to the legal limit. He never saw me riding it over 15 mph anyway. He just shrugged and left me alone.
 

snellemin

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Feb 4, 2014
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I really want to go visit Optibike in Colorado. I really like their stuff.

How was the optibike compared to the Stealth in regards to acceleration?
 

miked826

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One cop I talked to a few weeks ago accused my Bomber of being an unregistered motor vehicle. I told him, no it's not, it's electronically limited to the legal limit. He never saw me riding it over 15 mph anyway. He just shrugged and left me alone.
When you have to tell a cop what the law is and then he just goes along with it, then you know they don't have a clue about electric bikes. Most cops barely have a clue about the legality of gas bikes. He bluffed and then you called his bluff. He lost. laff
 

biknut

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Sep 28, 2010
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I really want to go visit Optibike in Colorado. I really like their stuff.

How was the optibike compared to the Stealth in regards to acceleration?
It had a lot going for it, but for the kind of riding I do, which is mostly street riding I like my bomber a lot better.

That bike isn't their top line bike so it's not terribly fast. I think he said it does about 35 mph. Like that's not fast, what a laugh huh LOL?? Actually it's plenty fast.

For hill climbing it's probably unsurpassed, but in the city it had a couple shortcomings. Number one, it's not silent. Silence is golden when you're riding with a herd of bicycles, or riding on a crowded bike trail. The motor has a kind of irritating sound like gears gashing when you apply a lot of power to it.

Another thing I wasn't wild about is you have to shift it through a few gears riding off from a stop. You don't really have to, but if you ride off in a higher gear acceleration is slow. That's great for hill climbing, but a pia from every stop compared to just gas it and go like my bike.

It doesn't have a CA. You just get 3 idiot lights. Not even a speedo or odometer. For a bike that expensive I'd like a little more information.

He said he's had several problems with it, and had to ship it back to the factory for warranty repairs 3 times. One of the repairs involved the motor mount coming loose, and spinning the motor, which he said cut the power wires.

He's happy with it though, and it seems like the problems have all been sorted out.
 

miked826

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Aug 6, 2011
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I really want to go visit Optibike in Colorado. I really like their stuff.

How was the optibike compared to the Stealth in regards to acceleration?
$14,000 for the top of the line Optibike. Top speed is 33mph. Range is 40 miles. The R11 electric bike has 1100 watts of continuous power and peak power of over 2000 watts. This is the e-bike that holds the record for the 24.5 mile ascent up Pikes Peak and is used by Pro Cyclists in motor pacing.

$14,000 for 1100 watts continuous? I'm just speechless. LOL

http://optibike.com/r11
 

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
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When you have to tell a cop what the law is and then he just goes along with it, then you know they don't have a clue about electric bikes. Most cops barely have a clue about the legality of gas bikes. He bluffed and then you called his bluff. He lost. laff
The motor bicycle laws here in Texas are so messed up I probably know 10 times more about them than any cop.