1911 Indian

GoldenMotor.com

agk

New Member
Oct 2, 2010
151
4
0
Santa Barbara CA
I am on the same boat with the 6.5 and plan on running the stock rod for now. I was also looking at the billet flywheel that is offered, it lighter and may let this motor rev quicker. It’s going to be an adventure for sure.

http://motorbicycling.com/f26/custom-frame-thumper-motor-28555.html
We've had no problems running the stock connecting rod up to 6000 rpm. Frequent oil changes with a good oil are very important. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the stock rod is metal to metal with the crank journal which is fine for a motor running at no more than 3600 rpm.

Once we modify these motors so they are capable of over 6000 rpm we definitely use a billet connecting rod. The billet rods have bearings like car engines do. When you place a billet rod side by side with a stock rod, the stock rod looks like it was built by caveman. The billet rods are very high quality.

Another good reason to use a billet rod in this application (with the engine sitting at 90 degrees) is because instead of having a simple dipper, it has a scooper. The scooper is cupped and actually scoops up oil and slings it into the cylinder.

In our go karts we run the engines on a 15 degree motor mount. I have never seen one mounted at about 90 degrees until I saw Lurkers bike. Hopefully Lurker is putting some miles on his bike and we can get some feedback on how well the oiling system (dipper) is working. Glad to see so many others going the same route with the clone motor.

The stock connecting rod is the weakest link in the 6.5hp clone motor. As I said above we had no problems with the stock rod up to 6000 rpm as long as we changed the oil frequently. The stock flywheel would be the next weak link. When you remove the governor and spin these engines beyond 3600 rpm the magnet can separate itself from the flywheel. The magnet is held in place with epoxy and a screw. Our aluminum flywheels have magnets that are either cast into the flywheel or held in with roll pins. These magnets will not separate from the flywheel. The aluminum flywheels are much lighter than stock too. Reducing that rotating mass is good for almost 1hp. That's a big gain in power considering the engine only produces 6.5hp.
 

cobrafreak

New Member
Feb 16, 2011
1,049
9
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sacramento ca
I was going to go for a nice ride around the neighborhood and one of the China Girl's engine studs stripped from the block. So I took this as a sign to move forward with Project big engine NOW! So I removed the old power plant (with extreme prejudice) and cut off the front engine mount and the mount I had for the fake engine plates I made for the China Girl engine. BTW, if anyone wants my fake engine plates I will give them to you, you just have to agree to use them for your own bike, no re-selling, OK. I sat the new engine with the head, crank, and cases attached. I am still waiting for my new rod so the engine is not complete inside. As you can see the GX200 engine fits well. The rear engine mount from the China Girl is at almost the perfect angle the GX needs to be so I can build off of it.


 

LS614

Active Member
Dec 22, 2009
1,236
3
38
CT and MA
That engine really looks like it belongs there. I would really love those old side covers, but I have nothing to do with them, so no :( Anyway, keep us informed :) Peace
-LS
 

corgi1

New Member
Aug 13, 2009
2,272
3
0
KCMO
Raffle Raffle ,lol ................and that does look like it belongs
 
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Allen_Wrench

Resident Mad Scientist
Feb 6, 2010
2,784
26
36
Indianapolis
An Indian replica in the foreground, and a Cobra behind it. And you live in sunny California. I'm tempted to come live at your house.
 

harry76

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2011
2,557
47
48
Brisbane, Australia
Thats looking awesome. What are you planning to about your former hand shifter? Because wont your bike now have an auto clutch. Are you going to remove it or use it for something else, like choke or something?
 

harry76

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2011
2,557
47
48
Brisbane, Australia
Just a thought or question. Do you think if you tilted the motor back (if possible for clearance) a little so that the barrell was vertical this would look better, more authentic? As the original single cylinder Indians were. And this may also help with the oil...... just wondering.
 

cobrafreak

New Member
Feb 16, 2011
1,049
9
0
sacramento ca
An Indian replica in the foreground, and a Cobra behind it. And you live in sunny California. I'm tempted to come live at your house.
Now you know why I'm "Cobrafreak" :) I was having some smooth running issues with the Cobra a couple of weeks ago. Apparently my air valve sensor was on the fritz and the car was dyeing at stoplights when cold. I had to replace the sensor and all is good. Runs great now. Don't believe all you see and hear about CA. I hate this frakin State and can't wait till I leave it for good. Every bad law that ever gets passed and moves to other States usually originate in CA. In Davis CA you can't smoke on the sidewalk because it's illegal. I don't smoke buy feel sorry for those that do. In San Francisco you can't have a toy in a Happy Meal box because it's enticing the little ones to buy unhealthy food. You also can't have a cat declawed in San francisco because it is cruelty to animals. Every couple of weeks they try to make a new gun law that will only affect law abiding citizens because criminals never obey the law. The liberals are nuts here and give me headaches.
 

corgi1

New Member
Aug 13, 2009
2,272
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KCMO
California is where terminator and the reason he came back originated and was filmed live,lol
 

cobrafreak

New Member
Feb 16, 2011
1,049
9
0
sacramento ca
I was curious as to wether or not the stock GX200 clone cast iron flywheel is safe at high rpm's. I found this thread on the internet of a guy that sent it in to a place that does destruction tests. The bottom line is the stock flywheel and magnet seem to be fine and will not blow up at rpm's a street ride will ever see. I'll hold out on the billet flywheel for now. Here is the thread post:

"I sent a stock, cast flywheel from one of the yellow engines to The Balancing Company ( The Balancing Company Homepage ) for a spin to destruct test. This company's credibility to properly perform this sort of testing is well established and beyond reproach.

Balco does not verify the safety, suitability, use, or the fitness for a particular purpose, or unintended purpose of the flywheel.

I asked that they give me the RPM where the first failure occurs. I supplied them with a new flywheel, a starter cup, a standard flywheel nut, and a new crankshaft so they could chop off the mag side of the crank and use it as an arbor for their machine. This means the flywheel was mounted in the same manner as we would be using it on the engine.

They have completed the test and are sending the flywheel and the test results back to me. As I stated before I sent the flywheel, I intend to scan the letter from Balco into the computer and post it here for everyone to see.

If one of these engines is prepared according to AKRA's box stock rules, the max racing RPM will be below 5500 RPM. The front runners on 1/5 mile tracks are turning less than 5200 RPM.

The magnet came off the flywheel tested at 11,250 RPM which is more than double the RPM where most are turning them so...

I stand on my previous statement about this engine, which, contrary to some of the conspiracy theorists out there, has not changed one bit:

I am comfortable with the stock flywheel on the engines I sell when that engine is being raced according to AKRA's box stock rules.

That is a very specific statement that encompasses EXACTLY how I am racing this engine myself. Do not confuse my statement with ANYTHING outside of that statement. If you must switch to parts that have the potential to jack up RPM or horsepower, then you should run a billet flywheel. Racing is dangerous, and ANY racing engine part can fail under racing conditions. Failure of ANY engine part can injure, or even kill an individual within the vacinity. If you aren't willing to accept that risk, then you should not be racing or in the vacinity of racing vehicles. You should not race under uninsured circumstances and you should not be in the pits under uninsured circumstances.

End of "racing is dangerous" (duh huh) disclaimer.

And by the way, to assume that I had not personally tested the flywheel myself prior to this would be wrong.

Let the fur flying begin!"
 

agk

New Member
Oct 2, 2010
151
4
0
Santa Barbara CA
I'm gonna pipe in about the flywheel issue again. I know the guy who sent that flywheel to the balance shop. He was promoting clone engines while others were knocking them...specifically certain people from Briggs & Stratton. Briggs did not like the success of the Honda clone engines. Clones were hurting Briggs sales.

People from Briggs & Stratton were claiming clone engines were unsafe specifically due to flywheel failures. There have been cases where the magnet separated from the flywheel. In one case the magnet broke the coil bracket, ripped through the blower housing, tore through the sheet metal side of a storage building and then put a big dent in a large metal pole that was supporting that building.

I think about this when i'm running an engine that has the governor removed. It's really on my mind when that engine is sitting between my legs. The gentleman may have proved a point to the Briggs camp with the Balance Shop results, but I'll tell you right now there is no way in **** that flywheel can withstand that rpm repeatedly. The stock flywheels simply are not safe at high rpm. A handful have come apart at much less than 11250 rpm and fortunately no one has been hurt that I know of.

When a flywheel manufacturer wants to have their flywheel certified at 6000 rpm, the flywheel has to spin at least double that rpm in the spin test before it self destructs. So the flywheel would have to spin 12000 rpm before coming apart. I learned this from the gentleman that submitted the flywheel to the Balance Shop in the test above.

I'm not posting this because I want to argue about flywheel safety. There is a level I'm comfortable pushing a stock flywheel and even I push that limit sometimes. I'm also not hoping to scare all of you into buying aftrmarket flywheels in hopes that our sales go up. I just don't want anyone to be misinformed. The stock flywheel has it's limits and if pushed beyond those limits it could cause serious damage or injury.

I'm one of the very few in the go kart industry that will tell customers it's okay to run a stock flywheel up to 6000 rpm. Most of my competitors will tell a customer they need to replace the stock flywheel as soon as the govenor is removed. Compare a stock flywheel with an aftermarket flywheel side by side and decide which one you want spinning 6000 rpm between your legs.

Killer bike cobrafreak! I look forward to the progress and hope to build something similar in the future. Contact me if you decide to go with an aftermarket flywheel and I'll cut you a deal. I'm learning from your project and it's the least I can do!
 

Allen_Wrench

Resident Mad Scientist
Feb 6, 2010
2,784
26
36
Indianapolis
Now you know why I'm "Cobrafreak" :) I was having some smooth running issues with the Cobra a couple of weeks ago. Apparently my air valve sensor was on the fritz and the car was dyeing at stoplights when cold. I had to replace the sensor and all is good. Runs great now. Don't believe all you see and hear about CA. I hate this frakin State and can't wait till I leave it for good. Every bad law that ever gets passed and moves to other States usually originate in CA. In Davis CA you can't smoke on the sidewalk because it's illegal. I don't smoke buy feel sorry for those that do. In San Francisco you can't have a toy in a Happy Meal box because it's enticing the little ones to buy unhealthy food. You also can't have a cat declawed in San francisco because it is cruelty to animals. Every couple of weeks they try to make a new gun law that will only affect law abiding citizens because criminals never obey the law. The liberals are nuts here and give me headaches.
Gad, you're right. I forgot about those people. You see, over here in Indy I'm considered "liberal". In CA I think they would call me moderate. I'm certainly not "California liberal". No toys in the Happy Meals? No smoking on the sidewalk? Uber-restrictive gun laws? Sounds like I wouldn't be as happy there as I thought. Maybe just a visit sometime then, instead.

Say, didn't the first Emperor of America, Norton I, hail from San Francisco?
 

cobrafreak

New Member
Feb 16, 2011
1,049
9
0
sacramento ca
You are not going to believe this people. I have been tracking my CVT via FedEx website and they said they delivered it today and it was not on my door. Lost/stolen/undelivered. I contacted FedEx and told them I don't have it and they are going to have someone call me within 48 hours. I also contacted the seller with the details. I live in a really safe very low crime area and have things delivered to me all the time for last 8 years with no problems. Very disappointed. I was hoping to bolt up the CVT and see how it fit on the engine tonight. :(
 

culvercityclassic

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2009
3,115
177
63
Culver City, Ca
Hey Cobra,

Hope they find it...I am interested to see how it fits on your bike. I just ordered alot of stuff today for my project and one was the CVT. Got a notice that it was already shipped from AFG. I like good service.

If this works out we will have some fast bikes for sure.
 

gobigkahuna

New Member
Apr 25, 2011
268
0
0
E NC
You are not going to believe this people. I have been tracking my CVT via FedEx website and they said they delivered it today and it was not on my door. Lost/stolen/undelivered. I contacted FedEx and told them I don't have it and they are going to have someone call me within 48 hours...
Same thing happened to me a couple years ago with FEDEX, the delivery guy dropped it off at the wrong house. FEDEX ended up having to pay for a replacement to be delivered to me a few days later. Never had this happen with UPS but I have had this and other problems with FEDEX.
 

Tre_in_L.A.

New Member
May 7, 2011
32
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
I went ahead and ordered the billet rod with journal bearings from AGK for my clone project yesterday. As well. I am replacing the 18 pound springs with 26 pounders, .265 lift cam, Mikuni 22 mm carb and a single stage header which I will weld a megaphone exhaust to. I'm calling this the stage one engine. Not too hot, not too cold but definately that stock rod is junk and likely not suitable for vertical operation or anything over SLG fixed RPM. I don't like the idea of 18 # valve springs either with a .265 lift cam. Just a personal choice.

I am sure FedEx just mis updated their system, here's to hoping they didn't lose your CVT. Usually they only lose real small packages in my experience.

Your project looks really good. I think the engine angle is just right.