100:1 Mix
- Thread starter Retmachinist
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- 100:1 amsoil motorized bicycle opti
Post your problem in the appropriate section of the forum and I am sure you'll get some help. Post it in 2 or 4 stroke Bicycle Engines & Kits, depending what type of engine you have.
Good Luck,
Chris
AKA: BigBlue
I made the leap of faith and bought some Opti-2. 10.95 for 12 oz 10 gal size.
Mathwise it comes out about same price as a 24 32:1 ratio oil at 4.99 per 32oz.
Math is my worst subject so don't quote me on it. I ran the numbers and it was close enough that I sprung for the Opti.
Ratio I decided to measure out in a 10ml graduated cylinder. And the
bottle is accurately calibrated to 1.28oz or 37.85ml. I put in about 38.?? whatever, so a lil lil rich. Now the oil mark is off, but I will just get calipers and
score the bottle to the new line. So the in the bottle version it is measured out for 100:1.
Bike kicked over quickly. I was unsure about the choke setting, but I believe I started it and ran it without using it. The idle was not set right
so i was unsure if I was choking it or what as nit kept dying out unless i was on throttle a little.
Ran around the block for like 10 to 15 minutes in two shifts. It seemed rich.
I have a KnN style air filter, and I wrapped a thin foam prefilter around it.
Put some oil in both. Perhaps that is wats boggin me. No dieseling or knocking, but the throttle goes further, but no more power comes on.
When I have the clutch pulled in it revs a lot higher, mind freaking vibrator!!!!
I have 32 tooth hub so maybe its not at right gear ratio to hit peak rpm. Honestly its fast enough as it it!!
Anyways cooled down and pulled plug. Blackish soot on plug, so it is rich, and that's how I'm leaving it considering the 100:1 ratio of oil.
The packet mystery, someone said its because Canadian gallons are more, but its sold in USA. Also the site has no information posted on what ratio to use. So who knows??? The 12 oz bottle dispenses 100:1.
Yayy I can use the bike running icon now!!!
Oh and Opti is semi synthetic, and I like that. The petroleum base keep the
engine juicy best!!! Synthetics burn off easier.
So any advice on jetting appreciated. More of the part of how you figure out why it is necessary. Thanks..
Mathwise it comes out about same price as a 24 32:1 ratio oil at 4.99 per 32oz.
Math is my worst subject so don't quote me on it. I ran the numbers and it was close enough that I sprung for the Opti.
Ratio I decided to measure out in a 10ml graduated cylinder. And the
bottle is accurately calibrated to 1.28oz or 37.85ml. I put in about 38.?? whatever, so a lil lil rich. Now the oil mark is off, but I will just get calipers and
score the bottle to the new line. So the in the bottle version it is measured out for 100:1.
Bike kicked over quickly. I was unsure about the choke setting, but I believe I started it and ran it without using it. The idle was not set right
so i was unsure if I was choking it or what as nit kept dying out unless i was on throttle a little.
Ran around the block for like 10 to 15 minutes in two shifts. It seemed rich.
I have a KnN style air filter, and I wrapped a thin foam prefilter around it.
Put some oil in both. Perhaps that is wats boggin me. No dieseling or knocking, but the throttle goes further, but no more power comes on.
When I have the clutch pulled in it revs a lot higher, mind freaking vibrator!!!!
I have 32 tooth hub so maybe its not at right gear ratio to hit peak rpm. Honestly its fast enough as it it!!
Anyways cooled down and pulled plug. Blackish soot on plug, so it is rich, and that's how I'm leaving it considering the 100:1 ratio of oil.
The packet mystery, someone said its because Canadian gallons are more, but its sold in USA. Also the site has no information posted on what ratio to use. So who knows??? The 12 oz bottle dispenses 100:1.
Yayy I can use the bike running icon now!!!Oh and Opti is semi synthetic, and I like that. The petroleum base keep the
engine juicy best!!! Synthetics burn off easier.
So any advice on jetting appreciated. More of the part of how you figure out why it is necessary. Thanks..
Oh mapbike, they call it enviro formula because its smoke free. It is the same stuff.
Its the new green gas!!!
Actually some guy came running out of the house and stopped me lol!!!
He wanted to know where I got the kit bad!!!
He thought it was a 4 stroke motor. I have a lot of sound deadening in the
case covers. But my guess is when he did not see any smoke he figured 4 stroke.
Its the new green gas!!!
Actually some guy came running out of the house and stopped me lol!!!
He wanted to know where I got the kit bad!!!
He thought it was a 4 stroke motor. I have a lot of sound deadening in the
case covers. But my guess is when he did not see any smoke he figured 4 stroke.
I live 12 miles fromOpti-2 headquarters in Blaine, WA. When they first introduced it they talked to a local popular hardware store that has a very diverse rental equipment fleet that had all different types and brands of two stroke equipment. They all seemed to have a different recommended oil mix and it was a PITA for them. The Opti-2 rep suggested they try their stuff in everything so they only had to deal with one mix. That was 13 years ago. They still use it and tell me they have never had a engine issue that was attributed to Opti-2. That convinced me when I built my bike.
Jim
Jim
And bless all the little kids.... Amen
Excellent product..... I do need to buy a bulk bottle though.
Map
Well I can attest that it runs pretty cool. I ran it around 3 miles. Shut it down a little, then started it and ran around my neighborhood.
I shut it down and pedaled around, only around 1/4 mile at most.
I reached down and touched my fins on engine, and tho hot, they were
nowheres near as hot as when the sun is shining on a car down here!
I could have kept my hand on it. I am running a 7 NKG plug, so that is a cool one. Where I live has tons of cross streets, so I so far am limited as to
how long I can keep it full throttle. Prolly only like 10 to 20 seconds.
Anyways it runs very cool, perhaps my 32 spoke hub keeps it from hyper revving like a 44 tooth tall one would.
So the quote " Lower operating temperatures" seems to ring true!!
I won't be touching the exhaust pipe however.......
I shut it down and pedaled around, only around 1/4 mile at most.
I reached down and touched my fins on engine, and tho hot, they were
nowheres near as hot as when the sun is shining on a car down here!
I could have kept my hand on it. I am running a 7 NKG plug, so that is a cool one. Where I live has tons of cross streets, so I so far am limited as to
how long I can keep it full throttle. Prolly only like 10 to 20 seconds.
Anyways it runs very cool, perhaps my 32 spoke hub keeps it from hyper revving like a 44 tooth tall one would.
So the quote " Lower operating temperatures" seems to ring true!!
I won't be touching the exhaust pipe however.......
This seems like a proper thread to post a link to this pretty slick site I found "pun intended" http://www.csgnetwork.com/oilfuelcalc.html
I like it because it will calculate 0.5 or 0.7 of a gallon to what ever ratio your seeking I used it to figure out how much oil I needed for 20 oz of fuel to get my desired 25:1 and no other calculate could do that so I hope someone else gets use from it like I did
I like it because it will calculate 0.5 or 0.7 of a gallon to what ever ratio your seeking I used it to figure out how much oil I needed for 20 oz of fuel to get my desired 25:1 and no other calculate could do that so I hope someone else gets use from it like I did
Yep hats a good calculator, that site has been posted several times, pretty handy for a quick calculation.
Map
Just a side note, if anyone does use the above mentioned web site, and you need to get the ratio for say a quarter gallon, it wont work if you type in" ¼ " you would need to type in .25 or 0.25 and it will calculate that way
While some may find the site as useful as teats on a bull , someone such as myself It is a god send for me because with 4 or 5 different bikes. I cant mix just one container for all the bikes. My wife seems to be missing her largest measuring cup also ..SHHHHH!!!
I always seem to have 3 or 4 different motors at diff. stages of the break in process so i find this info priceless. I got so pissed off at the white/ clear premix bottle the one that has the 25:1 and 20:1 on the same line & the instructions on that bottle would confuse Sir Issac Newton.
I know I must sound like a complete idiot but I really have been mixing fuel for years in chainsaws ,dirt bikes , water pumps ect.etc. however at 46 years old the damage done to the gray matter in the 80's is catching up to me.
While some may find the site as useful as teats on a bull , someone such as myself It is a god send for me because with 4 or 5 different bikes. I cant mix just one container for all the bikes. My wife seems to be missing her largest measuring cup also ..SHHHHH!!!
I always seem to have 3 or 4 different motors at diff. stages of the break in process so i find this info priceless. I got so pissed off at the white/ clear premix bottle the one that has the 25:1 and 20:1 on the same line & the instructions on that bottle would confuse Sir Issac Newton.
I know I must sound like a complete idiot but I really have been mixing fuel for years in chainsaws ,dirt bikes , water pumps ect.etc. however at 46 years old the damage done to the gray matter in the 80's is catching up to me.
Imperial gallons are larger, yes.
1 US Gallon = 3.785 L = 133.23 fl. oz.
1 Imp. Gallon = 4.546 L = 160 fl. oz.
An imperial gallon is about 26.77 oz larger (761 mL).
Going on tank #2, break in almost complete.
I went 80:1 simply because my tank holds less than 2 litres and I would put in 0.5 of a packet.
The motor purrs like a kitten and it was the cheapest engine ebay had.
And I am happy to post on page 100!
I went 80:1 simply because my tank holds less than 2 litres and I would put in 0.5 of a packet.
The motor purrs like a kitten and it was the cheapest engine ebay had.
And I am happy to post on page 100!
How much longevity is enough?
Several people here been mixing 100:1 for several years and there engines have outlasted many others who run much richer oil mixes.
Its more about the quality of the oil than it is the amount of it, oils that have been thoroughly tested and proven to protect as well or better than other oils with using 1/3 as much doesnt scare me at all, but like everything else we all have our opinions and preferences, this debate has been a long running one and still it continues. ....lol!
Map
Just an update - some folks reported issues when converting to Opti-2 after breaking the engines in with conventional oil. I logged about 1000 miles on Valvoline conventional 2 cyle oil and then converted to 100:1 Opti-2 without any trouble. I don't notice much difference except less smoke. I do also add a small amount of castor oil to the blend..
This debate will go on forever. I've said this before and I'll repeat it again.
If you haven't tried Opti-2 your opinion is just that, an opinion, based on the old belief that more oil is better. Today's modern lubrication products are far superior to those available years ago. Even straight dino oils are not the same but are formulated for higher temperatures and stress because of modern engine requirements.
To simply say that the 100:1 oil to fuel ratio is bad because, it "doesn't sound right" indicates to me that you have not researched the product or even read this entire thread to see what those who use it have said about their experience.
There's an old maxim that applies here: "Don't knock it 'till you've tried it".
Tom
I'm just in the old mold. I'm sure it's good oil, but I'm hard set in my ways and I would never mix at this ratio.
I grew up with nothing but a 13" black &white TV in my parents house which was fine back then, but I recognized progress and now I have moved up to a much better 55" big screen color tv.
Why sit and watch the 13" out dated black & white when you can enjoy the benefits of something so much better all the way around.....?
Just the way I see it..... shrug
Map
Let me beat this dead horse a couple times!
Let me open by stating that change is one thing that is very hard for us humans. Running 100:1 Opti-2 in our Happy time/China Girl engines is going to be hard for some people. To me, I tired it to prove that it was O.K. I've had the engine since 2004 and wouldn't be out too much if the engine seized. Heck, how much does a new engine cost?
I've been using Opti2 in all my 2 stroke engines, even the cheap 2 stroke generator that I bought for under $100.00. Smoke and residual oil are less than before. Look on the Internet and see how many landscape gardening, tree trimming, etc. persons have reported using 100:1 Opti-2 for years without any problems.
In my small town, the local ACE Hardware sells a lot of Opti2 to persons who use it everyday at a 100:1 ratio. If it damaged their engines, don't you think it wouldn't sell? They're the ones who use it to support their livelihood.
My guess is that the Happy Time/China Girl gas to oil ratio was developed years ago by the Russians who probably used regular 4 stroke crankcase oil with no additives. It just wasn't available at the time or place. Use more oil and your less likely to have engine problems.
The Chinese copied the Russian design and probably copied the same oil to fuel ratio. If it works why change it. Another possibility of staying with a 16:1 ratio maybe due to the lack of quality oil used by Chinese consumer or most individuals could only afford the cheapest oil that lacked additives for engine protection. The last possibility is to reduce the number of returned engines. If you required people to run the engines with a high oil to fuel mixture, more than likely, they won't have engine problems, other than a fouled plug every once in a while. It is cheaper just to tell the customer to clean the spark plug every one in awhile than having seized engines being returned, especially with a low profit margin.
Import dealers probably stayed with the same oil to fuel ratio as the Chinese. Again, if it works, why change it. Like the Chinese, importers and dealers are less likely going to have a warranty problem and higher consumer satisfaction with a higher oil to fuel ratio. In addition, importers and dealers have a very low profit margin. Of course, over time, spark plugs will foul, head will form carbon deposits and exhaust pipes will get plugged - So what, most of us don't complain about those issues after several thousand miles. We've got our money's worth.
My AMF Roadmaster McCullough engine built in 1978 required 40:1 BIA (Boating Industry Association) certified oil, but in an emergency could use regular 4 stroke oil at a 16:1 ratio. This is listed in the Owner's Manual. The Manual then states: : "At the 16 to 1 ratio, spark plug fouling could occur."
BIA has been superseded by the National Marine Manufactures Association (NMMA). TC-W3 is the current two stroke oil certification program. Do you think the oil certified by BIA in 1978 is the same quality as the TC-w3 oil certified by NMMA? I don't think so.
Here's a quote from NMMA regarding the TC-W3 Certification: " The long term objectives of the two-stroke engine industry have been to reduce emissions which contain burned and unburned oil that have passed through the engine, and to develop a quality of oil that reduces the mixture ratio to fuel while extending the life of the engine. That means significantly reduced emissions to satisfy EPA requirements, less warranty problems, and increased customer satisfaction due to engines lasting longer with less maintenance and overhauls." Seems similar to the Chinese and American importers and dealers - less warranty problems and increased consumer satisfaction.
Interesting how the TC-W3 Certification process works. Oil manufacturer/marketer submits oil for testing, NMMA tests it on engines in a laboratory and then certified to be used on two stroke engines. Is it the oil companies via NMMA and other oil certification associations that set the oil to fuel ratio or the engine manufactures setting their oil to fuel ratio based on results from NMMA and other oil certification associations? According to NMMA, they test at different oil to fuel ratios, as part of the certification process.
All I know is that Opti-2 works and I haven't burnt up my engine - even running it over 25 miles in 100+ degree temperature. I am sure some one on this forum would have complained by now. As long as your fuel/air mixture is correct, I don't think you'll have a problem with Opti-2 at 100:1.
Chris
AKA: BigBlue
Let me open by stating that change is one thing that is very hard for us humans. Running 100:1 Opti-2 in our Happy time/China Girl engines is going to be hard for some people. To me, I tired it to prove that it was O.K. I've had the engine since 2004 and wouldn't be out too much if the engine seized. Heck, how much does a new engine cost?
I've been using Opti2 in all my 2 stroke engines, even the cheap 2 stroke generator that I bought for under $100.00. Smoke and residual oil are less than before. Look on the Internet and see how many landscape gardening, tree trimming, etc. persons have reported using 100:1 Opti-2 for years without any problems.
In my small town, the local ACE Hardware sells a lot of Opti2 to persons who use it everyday at a 100:1 ratio. If it damaged their engines, don't you think it wouldn't sell? They're the ones who use it to support their livelihood.
My guess is that the Happy Time/China Girl gas to oil ratio was developed years ago by the Russians who probably used regular 4 stroke crankcase oil with no additives. It just wasn't available at the time or place. Use more oil and your less likely to have engine problems.
The Chinese copied the Russian design and probably copied the same oil to fuel ratio. If it works why change it. Another possibility of staying with a 16:1 ratio maybe due to the lack of quality oil used by Chinese consumer or most individuals could only afford the cheapest oil that lacked additives for engine protection. The last possibility is to reduce the number of returned engines. If you required people to run the engines with a high oil to fuel mixture, more than likely, they won't have engine problems, other than a fouled plug every once in a while. It is cheaper just to tell the customer to clean the spark plug every one in awhile than having seized engines being returned, especially with a low profit margin.
Import dealers probably stayed with the same oil to fuel ratio as the Chinese. Again, if it works, why change it. Like the Chinese, importers and dealers are less likely going to have a warranty problem and higher consumer satisfaction with a higher oil to fuel ratio. In addition, importers and dealers have a very low profit margin. Of course, over time, spark plugs will foul, head will form carbon deposits and exhaust pipes will get plugged - So what, most of us don't complain about those issues after several thousand miles. We've got our money's worth.
My AMF Roadmaster McCullough engine built in 1978 required 40:1 BIA (Boating Industry Association) certified oil, but in an emergency could use regular 4 stroke oil at a 16:1 ratio. This is listed in the Owner's Manual. The Manual then states: : "At the 16 to 1 ratio, spark plug fouling could occur."
BIA has been superseded by the National Marine Manufactures Association (NMMA). TC-W3 is the current two stroke oil certification program. Do you think the oil certified by BIA in 1978 is the same quality as the TC-w3 oil certified by NMMA? I don't think so.
Here's a quote from NMMA regarding the TC-W3 Certification: " The long term objectives of the two-stroke engine industry have been to reduce emissions which contain burned and unburned oil that have passed through the engine, and to develop a quality of oil that reduces the mixture ratio to fuel while extending the life of the engine. That means significantly reduced emissions to satisfy EPA requirements, less warranty problems, and increased customer satisfaction due to engines lasting longer with less maintenance and overhauls." Seems similar to the Chinese and American importers and dealers - less warranty problems and increased consumer satisfaction.
Interesting how the TC-W3 Certification process works. Oil manufacturer/marketer submits oil for testing, NMMA tests it on engines in a laboratory and then certified to be used on two stroke engines. Is it the oil companies via NMMA and other oil certification associations that set the oil to fuel ratio or the engine manufactures setting their oil to fuel ratio based on results from NMMA and other oil certification associations? According to NMMA, they test at different oil to fuel ratios, as part of the certification process.
All I know is that Opti-2 works and I haven't burnt up my engine - even running it over 25 miles in 100+ degree temperature. I am sure some one on this forum would have complained by now. As long as your fuel/air mixture is correct, I don't think you'll have a problem with Opti-2 at 100:1.
Chris
AKA: BigBlue