100:1 Mix

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Retmachinist, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    First of all it's called Saber. And in some applications it's used at 100:1. Applications such as precision engines.

    Who said I don't use it at 100:1? I do in MOST applications. Just not my bike engine. I actually don't run Saber, I use Dominator.

    I may be an Amsoil dealer, but I keep my skeptical mind. The claims made by some folks, with some oils just make no sense, and I've never seen such things. Frankly - more power is made with more oil. Find out the ratios racers run at.
     
  2. noobtard

    noobtard New Member

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    @2Door/Tom:
    just run your regular mix for a few miles, your engines will "come back to life" me thinks.
     
  3. Creative Engineering

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    Tom,

    I had one engine that had bad crank bearings. The bearings locked up and the crank was spinning in the inner race. The engine continued to run; but of course it had lost a lot of power.

    It wasn't noticeable from a typical diagnostic standpoint. The bearings are a loose fit on the crank. The engine would not attain it's normal RPM. The drag from the crank running in the inner race resulted as a huge loss in power.

    Ball bearings really don't require that much lubrication...but excessive heat will permanently damage them...especially low quality bearings.

    The oil is as much of a benefit for extracting heat as it is for lubrication.

    In a properly designed 2-stroke, the fule/oil mixture "flow" is critical to keeping the bearings cool and lubricated. It's not just the engine porting for performance, but also the dispersion of the mixture to the crank bearings, the rod big-end, and the wrist pin.

    Just a guess...based on what you described.

    Jim
     
  4. cyclepro101

    cyclepro101 New Member

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    I find it hard to believe this agument about china engines no being suited to the 1:100 Opti-2 mix. Its not like they are high tech performance engines. So I would og thought they would be very well suited to 1:100. I have done over 500km's on my new motor with 1:100 Opti-2 and it still goes fine.
     
  5. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    uuuh - (sound of sad-old-man-with-ponytail trying to remember the lessons of a distant youth)

    .....yeah... we used to be warned not to scrape to the edges when de-coking pistons - a rim of carbon in a used engine can help keep things sealing properly, the old guys would say...

    ....the use of high detergent oil in an old engine was counselled against for similar reasons...

    so my hypothesis goes like this:

    the supertech 100-1 stuff that tom used has done such a good job of cleaning things out of his older engines that they are <too clean>

    the benefits of carbon sealing have gone ? washed and burned away by an oil that does too good a job for an old engine?

    whadaya think?


    restapukin
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  6. fm2200

    fm2200 New Member

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    Tom the only thing I can think of is that you used a 85 ethanol gas or equivalent. The oil does not mix with well with that. I'm no expert this is what I read.
     
  7. Humsuckler

    Humsuckler New Member

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    im following this thread pretty close.

    if what was said above me was true, mabye it would be worth a try using?
    if your engine croaks call the company and get it replaced. Or at least get something from them your efforts are all documented in the thread here for them to see
     
  8. Earthman

    Earthman New Member

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    If you have a lot of carbon deposits you may want to try some Sea Foam (T) Motor Treatment added to the gas. I saw an old Sea King outboard motor in the trash (1950’2 I think) and picked it up to tinker with. It didn’t run at all, and I suspect that’s why the original owners pitched it in the trash. After cleaning carburetor, etc., and adjusting everything, it would run, but not well. It seemed to run fine for a minute or two then would “cough” and die. Everything I tried did nothing to help. I was about to give up, but I happened to look into the cylinder through the sparkplug hole and noticed a bunch of carbon on the top of the piston. After thinking about it for a month or two, I thought that the carbon might be heating up and holding enough heat to cause the fuel to per detonate and kill the engine. Someone at an auto parts store suggested I try Sea Foam to clean the carbon out so I got a small can from Wal-Mart and poured it in to the engine through the spark plug hole and let it sit for a while. I did this a couple of times as I recall. I didn’t expect much, but It cleaned out all the carbon and the engine fired right up and runs fine now. You can also mix Sea Foam with the gas occasionally according to the instructions and it’s suppose to keep things clean. Give it a try.
     
    #68 Earthman, Aug 16, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2009
  9. af0h

    af0h New Member

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    That's the exact same reason I occasionally I use a little MMO in my gas/oil mix. I've always been a believer in top-cylinder lubrication - plus it keeps the carbon from building up.

    :-||
     
  10. fm2200

    fm2200 New Member

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    What is MMO afOh, never heard of it. But then again, never heard of Sea Foam either.
     
  11. Ilikeabikea

    Ilikeabikea Moderator
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    MMO is Marvel Mystery Oil..............
     
  12. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    And 'Sea Foam' is a candy made with loads of sugar and food coloring. My mom used to make it around the holidays :)
    Tom
     
  13. mick29

    mick29 Member

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    thats insane dood 100.1 my chinesse motor was runin at 16.1 then 20.1 i thought the leanest would be around 40.1 it should perform great thanks mick29
     
  14. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Out of the mouths of babes: Noob, you'll be happy to know that you were right on. I just got home from burning my second tankfull of my old original mix using a 25:1 Stihl, 2 cycle oil. The Chris Hill motor has regained its performance almost completely. On the test hill in my neighborhood I just climbed it at a steady 21mph which is about where it used to be.
    Okay guys, I'm open for suggestions. There are too many satisfied Opti-2 users for me to believe that the oil is bad for a motor so what the heck happened to my engine? It is running strong again and everything is back to where I started; original carb and ignition, everything. I plan on calling the oil manufacturer tomorrow to see if they can shed some light on this phenomenon. I'll let you know what they say.
    Tom
     
    #74 2door, Aug 17, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2009
  15. Saddletramp1200

    Saddletramp1200 Custom MB Buiilder

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    As my little company grows I find riding more than I used to :) 60 or more miles a day. Parts mostly. I'm using a 36T on back so I'm riding hard most of the time. If this oil will protect my motor better It is worth a try for me. I ran out of gas again today, (again) rotfl
    I carry a qt of premix everywhere I go. Now I have to find some.
     
  16. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    the fact that performance was not restored immediately, but came back gradually with the burning of a tankful ... well...
    .... this does not rule out my hypothesis that the problem was related to the removal of copious amounts of carbon through detergents in the new oil and also the <smokefree lean-burn effect>
    ...as per my post on the last page...

    in all good faith, 2door, i reckon this is what is going on with your opti-2 experience
     
  17. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    The only problem with your theory, restapukin, is that if carbon removal was the issue how then did I collect "copious amounts" of carbon in two tanks that I had accumulated in 1500 miles? I rode this bike hard for those two tanks and the power kept increasing the further I rode. It was if the motor was ridding itself of the effects of the Opti-2. I'm of the opinion that the oil is so slick that the rings could not hold the compression that they were able to with standard oil. To add to this; the oil I have been using for a long time, Stihl 2 cycle chainsaw oil is supposed to be mixed at 50:1 and I typically use it at 24:1 to 30:1. Is that the reason my motor had previously been running so good? Excessive lubrication? Still open to suggestions here.
    Tom
     
  18. fm2200

    fm2200 New Member

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    Tom I think the muffler was somewhat clogged with the carbon that the opti2 loosened up. By you switching back to your regular oil mix the heat of the exhaust made the muffler slowly burn away the sludge carbon deposits left from the detergent effects that opti2 had on your engine. That would explain the gradual improvement in the performance of your engines output. The E85 Ethanol is not suited for use with the Opti2 oil. I read this info I do not have first hand knowledge of this.
     
  19. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    yeah - damn - i wonder what the exhaust smoke is like with your usual oil

    & whether you have decoked the engine at all

    but you're right, for my theory to work either a lot of carbon is being produced by a couple of tanksfull, or the carbon is being preferrentially deposited in exactly the location needed to enhance compression...

    mmmm - anyhow, very pleased to hear things are going good now


    restapukin
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  20. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    OK, I've got an alternative proposition

    either the primary effect of the opti-2 or the knock-on effect of changes that the oil has made via detergent effect...

    have thrown a partially bedded pair of rings in a partially glazed bore ... right back into break-in mode again...

    maybe

    i've been thinking about this quite a bit, 2door, i'm truly interested, not just trying to be smart or <right> even

    in all good faith

    your

    restapukin
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