Sorry Glen, but I pulled the muffler apart and it was clean. Exhaust port too. This was before I started running the old oil mix.
Tom
100:1 Mix
- Thread starter Retmachinist
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 100:1 amsoil motorized bicycle opti
Sorry Glen, but I pulled the muffler apart and it was clean. Exhaust port too. This was before I started running the old oil mix.
Tom
'X' Mark,
I appreciate your input. Thanks. Any and all help might answer this for us. It might help someone in the future and save some headachs for the next guy or gal. Keep the ideas coming. As for the theory, I'm really leaning toward a ring problem in spite of the fact that the motor seemed to have good compression. I know it does now. If I'm not rolling fast enough when I pop the clutch the compression will bring me to an instant stop. But, it did that with the Opti too.
Tom
Last edited:
Same here, my muffler was pretty much spotless.. yet, I'm having these same "problems".. with higher mixes...(just 32:1 in my case..)
(actually when I had my muffler off, I rode with the end cap off for about 10 miles over 2 days.. after I put it back on my engine was running about the best it ever had..)
Strange things are afoot...
Tom,
Does it seem to take more effort to get it started than before? Does it seem like the compression is higher now?
Jim
The thicker coat of old oil washed off the cylinder walls for a thinner one over time. Going back to the original oil mix built up a nice coat of oil on the cylinder walls again over time?
"If I'm not rolling fast enough when I pop the clutch the compression will bring me to an instant stop. But, it did that with the Opti too."
mmmm.... and yet.... different forces are at work keeping the rings sealed to the bore during the dry explosive impact of ignition ... as compared with the markedly lower pressures and somewhat more fluid-sealed conditions when you pop the clutch to start the engine
anyhow, what would i know....
mmmm.... and yet.... different forces are at work keeping the rings sealed to the bore during the dry explosive impact of ignition ... as compared with the markedly lower pressures and somewhat more fluid-sealed conditions when you pop the clutch to start the engine
anyhow, what would i know....
I have only done 500km's with 1:100 OPti-2. So has anyone done BIG Km's/Miles with this stuff? I have had "hand on heart" garentees from local suppliers that this stuff will only do good things for ALL 2-stroke engines. From brushcutters to mowers, high end MX Race bikes and even crappy china engines.
The way I am reading this thread is typical when we change from the normal, we tend the blame the Opti-2 when really other things, unrelarted, could be causing the problem. No I do not have shares in the Opti-2 company or sell the stuff but I am giving it the benefit of the doubt until it can be proved that this stuff is bad for our engines.
It's been around long enough now to be tryed and tested.
Steve
The way I am reading this thread is typical when we change from the normal, we tend the blame the Opti-2 when really other things, unrelarted, could be causing the problem. No I do not have shares in the Opti-2 company or sell the stuff but I am giving it the benefit of the doubt until it can be proved that this stuff is bad for our engines.
It's been around long enough now to be tryed and tested.
Steve
given you are thinking it is ring-related, it would be interesting to confirm whether your bore is alloy or chromed or iron-sleeve type
and whether it started out honed ... um ... i think it's standard practice in theory to hone iron and chromed bores but not alloy ... but i'm not certain of that, nor exactly what happens with chinese bores in practice
i'm in danger of becoming a aussie bore... blame the opti-2
restapukin
X
his mark
and whether it started out honed ... um ... i think it's standard practice in theory to hone iron and chromed bores but not alloy ... but i'm not certain of that, nor exactly what happens with chinese bores in practice
i'm in danger of becoming a aussie bore... blame the opti-2
restapukin
X
his mark
i wonder if maybe the mix should be came to gradually from mixing half of tank old mix and half of tank new mix instead of going straight and draining the old to replace with the new. and then instead of just going 2 miles, go about 10 miles. or just stick it on a jack stand and let it run ( wait i dont know if yall can do that... i can with the curry motor) nevermind that. i think that an engine needs a little time of gradual change.
thats just what i was thinking about the whole time reading this thread.
thats just what i was thinking about the whole time reading this thread.
so. is it dead tom?
did you pee a little? or do you want to give it another go?
mabye you should get someone high up at the opti-2 office and ask them for their opinion?
you probley should have topped off your tank with regular mix and kept it topped right up for a while im thinking too. however, calling the company probley couldnt hurt, you never know mabye they will want your old 1000+k HT to do tests on? because if that were the case i bet they would spring to replace it afterward if they were at fault.
did you pee a little? or do you want to give it another go?
mabye you should get someone high up at the opti-2 office and ask them for their opinion?
you probley should have topped off your tank with regular mix and kept it topped right up for a while im thinking too. however, calling the company probley couldnt hurt, you never know mabye they will want your old 1000+k HT to do tests on? because if that were the case i bet they would spring to replace it afterward if they were at fault.
I've heard that using full synthetic oil in a car engine from day one is a bad idea because it doesn't allow the rings to seat but on an engine with 1000 miles on it should defiantly have had the rings seated unless you've always used a synthetic 2 cycle oil.
A good old standby to clean the top end of any engine is regular old Dextron II ATF added to the gas. Had a Cutlass years ago that developed a mysterious problem with loosing tranny fluid. About every week I'd add a half a quart but I couldn't find a leak anywhere. Trans guy told me I probably had a bad vacuum modulator causing the trans fluid to be sucked into the carb through the vacuum hose. About a week after replacing the modulator I did a valve job and let me tell you for having 100k miles on the engine it didn't have one speck of carbon in the top end, the tops of the pistons were actually shiny! lol
A good old standby to clean the top end of any engine is regular old Dextron II ATF added to the gas. Had a Cutlass years ago that developed a mysterious problem with loosing tranny fluid. About every week I'd add a half a quart but I couldn't find a leak anywhere. Trans guy told me I probably had a bad vacuum modulator causing the trans fluid to be sucked into the carb through the vacuum hose. About a week after replacing the modulator I did a valve job and let me tell you for having 100k miles on the engine it didn't have one speck of carbon in the top end, the tops of the pistons were actually shiny! lol
Interesting this theory about only running in engines on crappy standard type oil. Advice I got from the customer service at Opti-2 to use it from day one just take it a bit easy, and Opti-2 is as good for new engines as it is for old.
I am yet to read anything that would sudgest not to run in a motor on a synthetic oil. Mind u Opti-2 is not a synthetic oil at all, its parafin based. See linky Which 2-cycle oil for Toro snow blower.
I have used this Opti-2 stuff in all my 2 stroke mowers and edges from new for years with no problems.
I am yet to read anything that would sudgest not to run in a motor on a synthetic oil. Mind u Opti-2 is not a synthetic oil at all, its parafin based. See linky Which 2-cycle oil for Toro snow blower.
I have used this Opti-2 stuff in all my 2 stroke mowers and edges from new for years with no problems.
this is sort of correct. For motorcycles (my area of specific knowledge) there is special break in mineral rich non syth. The minerals help scrub the engine as well as bond to it to ease with it's operations. Once the engine is broken in, it is safe to use syth.
edit: Also - 100:1 is WAY too lean for my blood. I have a cr80 dirtbike that I do a 32:1 in (jetted @ sea level) and it will get a little gunky if you're not on the pipe, but unless you weigh less then 100lbs, anything less then 40:1 mix, regardless of oil brand, you risk burning a piston or grennading that engine.
good luck and best wishes
I have just received my Opti2 oil and the seller has contacted me by e-mail he stated this warning not to use E85 Ethanol, it is not compatible. This is probably why 2 Door had all this performance trouble with his engine. So get it straight maybe the lesser Ethanol's are Ok but not the E85.
E85 is sold in about 7 stations in Colorado its hard to find. It is not even where the gas and diesel pumps are located It has a yellow handle and pump with all the markings to go along with it. 2Door did not say he was using E85
There are a lot of different factors here that are found in about 3 other parts of the USA. High heat,high altitude and no moisture. Air going past an object with 25% moisture will not pull as much heat as air with 75 to 90% moisture. Thats why we hear oh but its a dry heat it doesn't feel as hot. With the standard oil mix. doesn't matter syn or reg the oil not only lubes which the opti-2 is doing but the main thing is that its cooling the engine.
Like cyclepro101 showed us " Mind u Opti-2 is not a synthetic oil at all, its paraffin based " which at extreme temps and low ratio it will start to glaze the cyl and rings.
Lawn mowers, chain saws, weed whackers don't work as hard as these little engines do for as long as they do.
There are a lot of things to take into consideration on why things like this effect engines especially with molly rings.
There are a lot of different factors here that are found in about 3 other parts of the USA. High heat,high altitude and no moisture. Air going past an object with 25% moisture will not pull as much heat as air with 75 to 90% moisture. Thats why we hear oh but its a dry heat it doesn't feel as hot. With the standard oil mix. doesn't matter syn or reg the oil not only lubes which the opti-2 is doing but the main thing is that its cooling the engine.
Like cyclepro101 showed us " Mind u Opti-2 is not a synthetic oil at all, its paraffin based " which at extreme temps and low ratio it will start to glaze the cyl and rings.
Lawn mowers, chain saws, weed whackers don't work as hard as these little engines do for as long as they do.
There are a lot of things to take into consideration on why things like this effect engines especially with molly rings.
I reckon it's like this;
1 All (motor) oils work by separating the metal parts via a thin film of oil;
2 & all (2-stroke motor) oils have a significant detergent component these days
So what's the difference?
The difference is how the oil is designed to react when #1 above - the fluid layer - starts to fail.
Not a total seize-up, mind you, I'm referring to what happens when the highpoints on the piston ring start to rub against the highpoints on the bore.
The first (oldest) method of dealing with what happens when the metal parts start to rub is is to add E.P. (extreme pressure) additives to the base oil. These E.P. additives promote the formation of metallic salts at points of contact.... thus protecting the metal
The second oldest method is to use a solid additive such as graphite or teflon in order to smooth the surface by additive build-up, and also in the hope that the significant-sized additive particles will 'get in the way' when 2 metal high-points are about to bump into each other...
But Opti-2 claims to work in a new way when the oil-film starts to fail to separate the moving parts in an engine....
oh yes
this is new, the way opti-2 is designed to deal with it's own failure.... permit me to quote from the opti-2 blurb...
"In the 1970's, a 3rd generation of oil technology was developed and further enhanced in the late 1980's. This technology utilizes a eutectic reaction that restructures contact points without removing or adding material. When metal to metal contact occurs, extremely high but localized temperatures cause a reaction between the additives and the mother material. Although highlighted here, these localized temperatures occur with all oil technologies, but only eutectic additives utilize these conditions to restructure the metal surface. The metal peaks become soft and are deformed by the pressure. Repeated deformation restructures the surfaces to their optimum smoothness until no peaks are clashing. Additives then become dormant from lack of the localized high temperatures, returning the metal to its original density."
All this brings me back to thinking that the opti-2 has done something a bit like throwing 2door's engine back into break-in mode....
this opti-2 seems to work fundamentally differently to other oils - not just the same but better additive, or the same but more additive,
no, this stuff works nothing like other oils <at the point when hydrostatic separation of moving parts fails>.
it really is new new technology
restapukin
X
his mark
1 All (motor) oils work by separating the metal parts via a thin film of oil;
2 & all (2-stroke motor) oils have a significant detergent component these days
So what's the difference?
The difference is how the oil is designed to react when #1 above - the fluid layer - starts to fail.
Not a total seize-up, mind you, I'm referring to what happens when the highpoints on the piston ring start to rub against the highpoints on the bore.
The first (oldest) method of dealing with what happens when the metal parts start to rub is is to add E.P. (extreme pressure) additives to the base oil. These E.P. additives promote the formation of metallic salts at points of contact.... thus protecting the metal
The second oldest method is to use a solid additive such as graphite or teflon in order to smooth the surface by additive build-up, and also in the hope that the significant-sized additive particles will 'get in the way' when 2 metal high-points are about to bump into each other...
But Opti-2 claims to work in a new way when the oil-film starts to fail to separate the moving parts in an engine....
oh yes
this is new, the way opti-2 is designed to deal with it's own failure.... permit me to quote from the opti-2 blurb...
"In the 1970's, a 3rd generation of oil technology was developed and further enhanced in the late 1980's. This technology utilizes a eutectic reaction that restructures contact points without removing or adding material. When metal to metal contact occurs, extremely high but localized temperatures cause a reaction between the additives and the mother material. Although highlighted here, these localized temperatures occur with all oil technologies, but only eutectic additives utilize these conditions to restructure the metal surface. The metal peaks become soft and are deformed by the pressure. Repeated deformation restructures the surfaces to their optimum smoothness until no peaks are clashing. Additives then become dormant from lack of the localized high temperatures, returning the metal to its original density."
All this brings me back to thinking that the opti-2 has done something a bit like throwing 2door's engine back into break-in mode....
this opti-2 seems to work fundamentally differently to other oils - not just the same but better additive, or the same but more additive,
no, this stuff works nothing like other oils <at the point when hydrostatic separation of moving parts fails>.
it really is new new technology
restapukin
X
his mark
Last edited:
Nice one Mark, thats very interesting. Maybe Tom just needed to persist with the Opti-2 a little longer?
Steve
Steve
What I don't get is how you expect an oil manufacturer to answer or deal with issues that effect individual motors. the Chinese Motors have no consistency, their tolerances are all over the ball park, their lack of reliability well documented. To take an unknown quantity, poor at best, and treat it like it was a fine tuned racing motor with correct tolerances and excellent tooling or for that matter a decent weed wacker that I have owned for 20 years is taking a chance at best. Chinese motors cannot be assured of not having bent cranks new out of the box and people who want to run the absolute minimum oil gas mixture is misguided. The bearings are the cheapest quality with suspect tolerances and questionable materials. Their assembly is worse. their Balance often mimics a Panasonic Vibrator. How much difference can anyone expect the oil to make. Sure use the best oil but use it sanely. Morini recommends 50;1 after break in Stick with 32 :1 with the best oil You think you got a Morini? Fat Chance IMO