100:1 Mix

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Retmachinist, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. donuts31

    donuts31 New Member

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    let's see some specs on the oil. What is its flash point? 2 stroke lubes only work when they are in liquid form. Once they flash and burn no longer lubricating.

    No oil other than castor oil works as well as it does afaik. When castor flashes it forms a dry lubricant that is actually a better lubricant then when wet as a liquid.
     
  2. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    (damn; I'm the only downunder dweller around this thread recently ... is svegkovat dishing me a well-deserved lampooning for my last post?

    i'll have to get it explained to me...i'm too dumb to figure just how wicked his virtual tar-and-feathering really is....)
     
    #102 restapukin, Aug 20, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  3. Srjeeper

    Srjeeper New Member

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    FWIW Dept.

    A close friend is an Amsoil Distributor and Ultralight Pilot/Flight Instructor with well over 1300 hrs. and no engine failures. All he's ever used is 100:1 mix (no oil injection) in all his planes. When he heard about my MB he gave me two bottles of Amsoil Saber Professional 100:1 mix to try. When I told him 16:1 first tank full then after brake-in they recommend 20:1 he called Amsoils Tech Unit. They assured him that their Saber Professional 100:1 would work in 'ANY 2 stroke engine' if mixed correctly after brake-in.

    I'm running 20:1 right now using Stihl oil with no problems, easy start, minimal smoke. After reading all this I will most likely leave the 100:1 stuff on the shelf and just ride happy.

    Blue Sky & Happy Trails to all.......

    .rd.

     
  4. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    That's funnier than most!!!
     
  5. cyclepro101

    cyclepro101 New Member

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    I'm hearing ya bro.

    Steve
     
  6. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    alas, some higher power hath cause-ed a lampooning thread to vaporise by means i know not

    making me look not merely dumb, but a total numbskull

    And here's me wanting to make a serious point that has cost me much .....thought.... ....no doubt you guys are way ahead of me ... but here goes


    I reckon it's like this;

    1 All (motor) oils work by separating the metal parts via a thin film of oil;

    2 & all (2-stroke motor) oils have a significant detergent component these days

    So what's the difference?

    The difference is how the oil is designed to react when #1 above - the fluid layer - starts to fail.

    Not a total seize-up, mind you, I'm referring to what happens when the highpoints on the piston ring start to rub against the highpoints on the bore.

    The first (oldest) method of dealing with what happens when the metal parts start to rub is is to add E.P. (extreme pressure) additives to the base oil. These E.P. additives promote the formation of metallic salts at points of contact.... thus protecting the metal

    The second oldest method is to use a solid additive such as graphite or teflon in order to smooth the surface by additive build-up, and also in the hope that the significant-sized additive particles will 'get in the way' when 2 metal high-points are about to bump into each other...

    But Opti-2 claims to work in a new way when the oil-film starts to fail to separate the moving parts in an engine....

    oh yes

    this is new, the way opti-2 is designed to deal with it's own failure.... permit me to quote from the opti-2 blurb...

    "In the 1970's, a 3rd generation of oil technology was developed and further enhanced in the late 1980's. This technology utilizes a eutectic reaction that restructures contact points without removing or adding material. When metal to metal contact occurs, extremely high but localized temperatures cause a reaction between the additives and the mother material. Although highlighted here, these localized temperatures occur with all oil technologies, but only eutectic additives utilize these conditions to restructure the metal surface. The metal peaks become soft and are deformed by the pressure. Repeated deformation restructures the surfaces to their optimum smoothness until no peaks are clashing. Additives then become dormant from lack of the localized high temperatures, returning the metal to its original density."

    All this brings me back to thinking that the opti-2 has done something a bit like throwing 2door's engine back into break-in mode....

    this opti-2 seems to work fundamentally differently to other oils - not just the same but better additive, or the same but more additive,

    no, this stuff works nothing like other oils <at the point when hydrostatic separation of moving parts fails>.

    it really is new new technology


    restapukin
    X
    his mark
     
  7. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    see ... lead and tin form a eutectic alloy ... that melts at a far lower temperature than either pure lead or pure tin .... we use this alloy as solder...


    these opti-2 guys are saying that they have this stuff which is in the oil ... and when the metallic peaks in the engine clash ... when the hydrostatic separation fails ... this stuff combines with the metal peaks that are rubbing - and hotter because of the rubbing ... and that this stuff forms a eutectic mixture with the rubbing metal....thus allowing the surface to become smoother by virtue of redistribution of the metal surfaces


    the unanswered question goes ...<what if the surface has already been modified by another oil that uses metallic salt formation via friction modifiers or high pressure additives>

    I don't know the answer
     
  8. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    hey.... steve.... man.... i'm gonna blame you for eggin' me on.......
     
  9. cyclepro101

    cyclepro101 New Member

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    Lol :)
    ..........
     
  10. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    that's why opti-2 is reported to be disconcerting thin... it thrives on allowing the peaks to clash ... and literally melts the metal 'over a bit' to smooth out the bore

    without creating a heap of metal particles in the oil, and hence,

    essentially.... without wearing the engine out!
     
  11. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    DISCLAIMER I have never seen or used opti 2 OR any other oil at greater than 25:1 ratio.

    The above is based on the CLAIMS made by the opti-2 guys & trying to explain 2-door's experience for myself... & as such is virtually PURE THEORY

    no ... wait a minute... it's a hypothesis innit .... like them proper scientists have.....
     
  12. cyclepro101

    cyclepro101 New Member

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  13. GeneFiorot

    GeneFiorot New Member

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    Restapukin , so If I read you correctly there would be no reason not to follow a engine manufacturer's recommendation regarding oil mix ratios and use opti -2 as an added insurance policy. It seems to me that other than $ saved, the more prudent thing to do is run at 40:1
    gene
     
  14. toker_ace

    toker_ace Member

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    I think I'm gonna run opti at 400:1 No 500:1 !!!! Just poking fun at this thread.I'm sure it will be fine Jon. Heck, for $59.00 you can buy A new motor! Ride it like you live!dnut
     
  15. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Their ridiculous misuse of the term "eutectic" is enough to steer me away from the product. This refers exclusivley to alloys and has nothing at all to do with oil additives. Mostly used to describe certain lead/tin ratios in solder that benefit soldification properties. In my experience if the company's full of baloney so is the product.

    I plan to evaluate synthetic oils soon to see if there is any real performance enhancement compared to the 50:1 Walmart Supertech I've been using last few years. Anything but "Opti". Maybe this Saber or Dominator stuff. I wonder if any of these might be obtained locally?
     
  16. GeneFiorot

    GeneFiorot New Member

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    What do you think is the eutectic factor in snake oil? Question what does this Opti Stuff cost and where do you buy it?
     
  17. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    these guys could not sell chocolate ice-cream to fat girls

    that's what makes me continue to try to understand what is going down before i blow the whistle & cry foul

    (it's 2009. go google "opti-2" or "opti 2" or "opti two" or use hacker techniques to the limit of the law......

    yo'll be back here pretty soon saying that if these guys are snake oil how come they can't sell to save their lives....


    sure, if yer feel like dishing out a kicking before you figure what's rock from what's football....
     
    #117 restapukin, Aug 21, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2009
  18. restapukin

    restapukin New Member

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    as devils advocate, the charge of 'misuse of the term eutectic' does not stick .... in all fairness...

    I quote from wikipedia


    "Other eutectic mixtures

    Sodium chloride and water form a eutectic mixture. It has a eutectic point of −21.2 C[1] and 23.3%[2] salt by mass. The eutectic nature of salt and water is exploited when salt is spread on roads to aid snow removal, or mixed with ice to produce low temperatures (for example, in traditional ice cream making).

    Lidocaine and prilocaine, both solids at room temperature, form a eutectic that is an oil with a 16°C melting point, used in EMLA (Eutectic Mixture of Local Anesthetic) preparations.

    Minerals may form eutectic mixtures in igneous rocks,[3] giving rise to characteristic intergrowth textures such as that of granophyre.

    Some inks are eutectic mixtures, allowing inkjet printers to operate at lower temperatures.[4]"


    damn... see how it even has relevance to traditional makers of chocolate ice-cream for fat girls?

    only half joking if you follow me
     
  19. xlite

    xlite New Member

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    Well... maybe... But still don't see any advantage or reference to lubrication.

    If I could find a small bottle for less than $60 I might try it. I want to test synthetics with least investment possible. I'd feel like a fool spending big bucks for no reason.

     
  20. silverbear

    silverbear The Boy Who Never Grew Up

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    Make fun of opti 2 all you want. I say stick with whatever you are comfortable with. Use regular 2 stroke oil if you want. Or use synthetic as I did until trying the opti 2. There is no right way for everyone any more than there is only one way to build a bike. if you don't trust it, don't buy it. Simple. But, making fun of what you have not tried does not lend credibility to the criticisms and jokes. What about all of us who have tried it and have seen enough reason to switch over? What about those who have used it for a long time and swear by it? Are we who use it all gullible fools? If it is snake oil, it is damned good snake oil in my opinion. I ran Amsoil in my Thatdax motor for over a thousand miles and with less than ten miles running the opti 2 it ran better than it ever has. I believe in what works for me and even at 65 I'm not to old to try something new. I use this oil because it works, not because I like the manufacturer's website. As soon as I run out of Amsoil Sabre Professional used in my chainsaws and lawnboy mower, they are getting opti 2 as well. If I'm wrong then I guess I'll find out sometime later. As someone here pointed out, a replacement HT motor is pretty cheap so it is no great gamble to find out for myself.
    Silverbear
     

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