Old Guys V twin & sidecar

[fasteddy]

Hi Pete,
Sorry to hear your Covid symptoms are lingering. My turn with it has driven the arthritis level off the scale but no other side effects other than a cough. I'm going to make the call to the doctor I've been putting off for too long, tomorrow. I'll see what is available to help. Braced for the tests to make sure that the repair isn't destroying every thing else starting with my kidneys and liver so they have to then start me on another drug to combat the first drug.

Steve.

 

[curtisfox]

we had nice weather like 40 degrees for a couple weeks, then down to 30"s for about a week then down into the 20"s. But then we got hit with snow last Friday, and hasn't stopped yet, about 5" so far, yesterday was the most, but flurries otherwise. So glad this old boy has a tractor/ blower.

Like you I am cleaning, getting rid of a lot of stuff, even finding bike parts, that were misplaced.............Curt

 

[indian22]

Hi, Rick,
I was just thinking of the sidecar design. The most minimalist side car design I've seen short of a slab of wood on a wheel. I sat here last night with some poster board trying to see what it would take to form the metal.The adhesive and rivet construction you mentioned would make it easier to build.

Steve.

Steve I need to take up Origami for a hobby. Paper patterns are so useful in sheet metal work especially.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

we had nice weather like 40 degrees for a couple weeks, then down to 30"s for about a week then down into the 20"s. But then we got hit with snow last Friday, and hasn't stopped yet, about 5" so far, yesterday was the most, but flurries otherwise. So glad this old boy has a tractor/ blower.

Like you I am cleaning, getting rid of a lot of stuff, even finding bike parts, that were misplaced.............Curt
View attachment 111730

Nice tractor setup. Snow here is almost melted and todays highs in mid fifties should do it.

I'm planning on a full day in the shop today as tomorrow won't rise above freezing all day, but only one day then mid forties for several days.

My goal today is clean up and organization, make room to work first. Then layout parts and materials for assembly of basic frame. Since I won't need a separate motor on the car frame for reverse I may need to machine a couple of parts for the car wheel torsion spring suspension and the bodies leaf spring suspension too.

Pretty pumped up to get it done as I feel really good now after Covid and my energy level is pretty much back to pre infection levels.

Working inside during cold weather isn't too bad my space is well insulated and a small propane heater can really warm it up. I don't use it much though because of condensation and subsequent corrosion to my tools and bikes.

Hope you get dug out Curt and things dry out soon.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

It is old about a 79 model, but does a good job, had it tore down to just the bare frame a couple times. Just last year I went through it again, its all hydraulic,( still get most parts,) except for the belt drive blower drive. I don't mow with it as to big for city lot, have a small 30" rider for that.

I have a hanging furnace in my shop, and run it all winter 20' x 24', doesn't take much gas, with 6" walls, and keeps everything dry, and from freezing, paint and all. used to have problem with sweating in the spring, not no more. I have been hear for about 55 years, built new garage in late 70's, then worked a little at a time finishing it, and accumulating projects. Now getting rid of, it hurts some but justification is so much better after it's gone. I have a friend on the forum that built me a 50cc China girl, and can't wait to get back on building, and with all the necessary stuff out of the way it will be a pleasure.........Curt

 

[indian22]

Curt selling my shop was hard but at the time was a health issue, no work tell I regained my health so no shop helped greatly in avoiding work....mostly. I got over selling it quite quickly though.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

we had nice weather like 40 degrees for a couple weeks, then down to 30"s for about a week then down into the 20"s. But then we got hit with snow last Friday, and hasn't stopped yet, about 5" so far, yesterday was the most, but flurries otherwise. So glad this old boy has a tractor/ blower.

Like you I am cleaning, getting rid of a lot of stuff, even finding bike parts, that were misplaced.............Curt
View attachment 111730

Curt, your snow blower is cool. Reminds me of when Jen and I used to visit and stay with our American friends. We couldn't fail to be impressed with the amount of (to we Brits) hi-end toys they almost always has stuffed in their (3 car!) garages. Things like, ride-on mowers, snow blowers, hydraulic log splitters, jet skis, snowmobiles, etc. On the other hand, what most impressed our US pals when they came to stay with us in the UK was the small stuff....like 2ft thick house walls, on/off switches on electric wall sockets and a full size bath tub you could actually lay down in.

Gardens (yards in US speak) here in the UK are almost always fairly compact, so ride-on mowers are a rare sight. And as for snow blowers, I don't claim to have ever seen one this side of the pond. Most local authorities snow fighting gear doesn't stretch that far. One of my best memories during a lay-over at a hotel - if I remember right it was the Marriott - in Copley Square, Boston, was when one of the door staff asked where we were headed and told us to follow behind him as he cut a pathway through six foot deep snow to the mall across the street. Now that's Service with a capital S.

Only time I ever had a need for a ride-on mower would have been when we first moved into our converted barn Netherton home. For the first couple of years the entire garden space was laid to lawn from seed. Not a mowing fan at all. If I wanted to waste that much time strolling on grass I'd have taken up golf. So I quickly designed a hard landscaped and planted-up garden space featuring ZERO lawn. Pics below. Best thing I ever did. Back then, Sundays were our favourite day of the week. What beats a relaxing brunch in your steamer recliner chair, beer or wine in hand, listening to the hum of neighbor's mowing?

 

[indian22]

Lovely landscaping and photos Pete!

 

[indian22]

Pretty day here and got some work in on cleanup and side car frame which is 40" x 24". Wheel is 17" and tire is 2.25" DOT rated as is the wheel and hub.

Body will use two leaf springs and the wheel suspension is a torsion spring and of which are smalll utility trailer parts. The aluminum torsion arm drops the frame 4" as shown. Ground clearance shown is 2.5" at the suspension housing.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Brake rotor (shown) could be used but I don"t think it will be necessary to run a brake on this hack.

 

[curtisfox]

Way KOOL Pete, lot of them plants would not make it here, as zone 3 freezeout. Ya I use to mow with push mower, but now at 81 and ever since I had a new knee put in, seems to slowly get worse, as far as mussel control. I own a big corner lot so just the last couple years I resorted to little rear engine mower.

I have not had a lot of toys, back in the late 60's and early 70's snowmobile was big, started out riding with friends, then bought a 73 artic cat, then built a sled to go behind for the 4 boys to ride on winter whinny roast. Then one friend got cancer, it kind of slowed down and finally kind of died out, so gave it away. I have a boat for fishing. I even quit deer hunting, do a lot of camping in the summer, Now that the kids are gone we start out in march and go south for a month or two, and when we get back the snow is sure to be gone. LOL I am on my 5th used motorhome, brother lived in LA area, so took a different rout when we went down, 6 to 8 thousand mile on them every trip. Now site is getting not so good so who knows from here on.

 

[PeteMcP]

Way KOOL Pete, lot of them plants would not make it here, as zone 3 freezeout. Ya I use to mow with push mower, but now at 81 and ever since I had a new knee put in, seems to slowly get worse, as far as mussel control. I own a big corner lot so just the last couple years I resorted to little rear engine mower.

I have not had a lot of toys, back in the late 60's and early 70's snowmobile was big, started out riding with friends, then bought a 73 artic cat, then built a sled to go behind for the 4 boys to ride on winter whinny roast. Then one friend got cancer, it kind of slowed down and finally kind of died out, so gave it away. I have a boat for fishing. I even quit deer hunting, do a lot of camping in the summer, Now that the kids are gone we start out in march and go south for a month or two, and when we get back the snow is sure to be gone. LOL I am on my 5th used motorhome, brother lived in LA area, so took a different rout when we went down, 6 to 8 thousand mile on them every trip. Now site is getting not so good so who knows from here on.

That sounds like the life of Riley! A life well lived - and plenty more to come. Keep on trucking Curt.

 

[PeteMcP]

Brake rotor (shown) could be used but I don"t think it will be necessary to run a brake on this hack.

Those joint fixtures on your chair's frame sure make for fast headway, Rick. Loads of room for adjustment prior to final fixing. Do the joints actually secure well enough just with bolts are is any other method of securement - like welding - necessary? That brake disc looks great. Even if the rig doesn't need any more brake capacity I'd go with the caliper just for the bling effect. Imagine picking up your grocery shopping in this beauty!

 

[indian22]

Pete you guys are providing food for thought on the sidecar. Thanks to you all it's helpful and appreciated.

It's pretty dang cold here today, but warming nicely tomorrow and staying there to the end of November, so I'm staying inside for the most part and will get after it again tomorrow.

I've spent many hours over several years researching sidecars before I laid out the design for this sub frame and pieced it together several years ago. Basically what I photographed yesterday. There are potential underlying flaws discovered when projects drag on for protracted periods of time. The big one for me is changing bike frames which are each quite different, the Ol' Crow is the third iteration frame, and power train (also the third) so bike to car dynamics are different. I'll not elaborate on each but there are several elements involved. Brakes are just one of those, one reason I left the rotor in place and adding a caliper to the suspension lever is a modest task at this point. The original bikes were to employ disc brakes fore and aft, good stoppers. The Crow's vintage drums are not great and after one hard stop, and even that first stop isn't super. All three bikes were in the 150 lb ea. range and with the addition of another 60lbs or more of hack weight...I need additional braking for those times I may exceed a leisurely pace, intended or not. Steep decents come to mind. Thanks for the nudge and they will look nice, but not vintage...safety first.

Tube fittings are great for setup and changes, but not to be trusted alone. Frame gussets and plates will be added as will some additional fasteners here and there. Rear of the hack body will be connected to leaf springs and nose of the body frame to a swivel bearing axle.

Since I use functional pedal levers on all my bikes they really create clearance and mounting problems for a car rig. First of all they require
additional room to clear the car body and the mid frame support bracket. On the first two bike frames the kick start lever was a design problem that the electric bike doesn't present. Bracket attachment points on each bike were all very different, but the sub frame is really wide open for basically whatevever and wherever I need support and adjustment. I don't trust two point support, though some lightweight hacks, with which I would class this one, employ only two. I will use three and each with generous adjustment range for car alignment.

Your thoughts are welcomed and appreciated of course. Details matter to me and I always test everything ad nauseam during and after building
a rideable design and this side hack will be running "naked" till it proves worthy of a body. If I can't safely ride anything I build ( and I ride them a lot) there's no reason to flesh them out by mounting a body or accents to it.

I appreciate you guys more than you know!


Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Rick, Have you considered using (suspension) lower ball joint(s) as a means of securing the front of the chair body to the frame? Probably only need one if triangulated with the pair of rear leaf springs.

.

 

[indian22]

I had not Pete, but will look into it thanks.

 

[fasteddy]

Here are some ideas on how to set up the sidecar to the frame. First one is for a motorcycle and the second is for a bicycle to a sidecar.

Steve.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiP-ZfP3bj7AhVxGTQIHW1aBJUQFnoECDEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsimplysidecars.co.uk%2Ffittingguide.html&usg=AOvVaw1lBsWStKzCyuWHtXeco6lf

MOD Sidecar Assembly Guide https://mod-bikes.zendesk.com › en-us › articles › 3600...

 

[indian22]

Thanks Steve I actually have studied both of these and they are both very helpful. I had intended to revist the Mod bike instructions and now I have it located thanks to you. I tend to think I'm leaning more to small motorcycle or large motor bike rig connection, but using 3 points of connection rather than two between hack and bike frames.

Brake pedal mounted on the car frame can double as a parking brake on inclines too.

The photos of the torsion suspension mounted below the sub frame really limits clearance so I will try top mounting which will lower the sub frame a couple inches, but gain two inches plus of ground clearance. It should work fine either way though.

I decided against welding mounting tabs to the frame. I want it clean as a solo bike and be really quick to disconnect the hack.

Again thanks for taking the time to participate in this long delayed project.

Rick C.

 

[fasteddy]

Glad I could help, Rick. The bicycle/sidecar set up is new. I used the motorcycle one to set up the Monark and the sidecar. Happened onto it looking for sidecar information. Never thought there would be a formula to get the bike and sidecar angles correct.

Just started to get all my projects back on track. Main thing is getting batteries assembled to start.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

I thought there was more info than I remembered in the instruction manuel I had pulled up. This one goes into much more detail.

The comprehensive sidecar info with setup formulas is an incredible aid for any side hack project.

One interesting detail I picked up on original Flexi cars came from Wheels Through Time, and from a guy who has actually owns, rides and has raced them. Matt says they are ridden like a solo cycle on left turns more easily, but they are no help turning to the right, reverse this insight on rigs set up with a hack mounted to the bikes left side. He termed it drive to the right, just like a fixed style hack. He said he would explain the added complications of turning the Flexi to the right in a later episode, which I don't recall having ever watched. I took this to mean right turns with the Flexi were somehow worse than a fixed hack. I dunno? I do know he termed the early Flexi sidecar races as the most dangerous type of early racing and that's a significant claim!

Again thanks for the info, interest & time.


Rick C.