On Friday we set a one day record for snowfall in Ruidoso, NM, 20 inches of the white stuff.
Indian Tadpole
- Thread starter silverbear
- Start date
WOW! Must of been a white out, had to come down hard. .........Curt
Give me some dimensions Steve, 3/4" / 19.05mm bar stock is readily available and my shop does not have a backlog. I have a wide pedal crank set MBrebel pirated from Pat. Snap ring grooves were in wrong location so I cut new ones on my lathe. That whole assembly is in a box in my shop since I bought Pat's reduction drive. Side note: That shafts snap ring grooves were too wide too. Made a 1.5mm shim to take up the slack.
Tom from Rubicon
Hi Tom,
Thank you. I have Pat's pedal crank set. What I need is one side of the shaft extended 1-1/2 inches from the stock length. This will allow the pedal to fit. That is 1-1/2" from the C clip. Pedal, cotter pin notch would be as Pat made it.
I'll post photos to show what I'm up against.
Steve.
Thank you. I have Pat's pedal crank set. What I need is one side of the shaft extended 1-1/2 inches from the stock length. This will allow the pedal to fit. That is 1-1/2" from the C clip. Pedal, cotter pin notch would be as Pat made it.
I'll post photos to show what I'm up against.
Steve.
I put the anchor mount for the clutch and chain slack adjuster and now clutch cable stop arm, anchor. Just put the clutch cable though the holes to give an idea of how it will look.
I would say that other than having the pedal shaft extended everything is done. Tomorrow a deep cleaning of the shop will start. It needs it desperately.
The work bench looks like tool bomb went off.
Steve.
I would say that other than having the pedal shaft extended everything is done. Tomorrow a deep cleaning of the shop will start. It needs it desperately.
The work bench looks like tool bomb went off.
Steve.
Last edited:
Huge thank you to Velodrome for coming up with the idea to add the arm to the clutch actuator. It's a smooth as can be. I need to add a couple of bolts to hold it in place.
Steve.
Steve.
Here is a link to Velodromes Flying Merkle build.
Steve.
https://motorbicycling.com/threads/1911-flying-merkel-single-build.60780/
Steve.
https://motorbicycling.com/threads/1911-flying-merkel-single-build.60780/
Looking at the pictures, can you replace the locking collar with proper spacers and let the pedal hold it all together? Just a thought........Curt
Hi Curt,
I tried. There is a tin half full of shim washers on the bench and no matter what thicknesses I used it was either not enough or one too many.
Also if I turned the pedal over they would drag on the pedal and the chances of them wearing out was high.
The split collar holds it in place tightly and there is no movement other than the clutch disengaging.
The clutch movement is as smooth as butter with the lever added to it. I can get the clutch to open with a little pressure from one finger. I would recommend adding one.
Steve.
I tried. There is a tin half full of shim washers on the bench and no matter what thicknesses I used it was either not enough or one too many.
Also if I turned the pedal over they would drag on the pedal and the chances of them wearing out was high.
The split collar holds it in place tightly and there is no movement other than the clutch disengaging.
The clutch movement is as smooth as butter with the lever added to it. I can get the clutch to open with a little pressure from one finger. I would recommend adding one.
Steve.
Figured you were on top, just a thought. Have to keep that in mind when i get to my 3D..........Curt
Not exactly sure about what was possibly had the use of shim washers. Just wanted to let you know that I found maybe not oddly, spacer thickness may not always be exactly consistent. I kept mixing and matching and finally got a sprocket to align with another so a chain was inline this fangled way.
Sorta what happens when you change directions in midway of build. LOL. Been there and done it............Curt
Photos explained your problem well.
Steve have you looked at the possibility of just moving the bottom bracket shaft the required distance to mount the pedal lever & installing a spacer bushing between the clutch & bottom bracket bearing to maintain correct spacing? The shaft axle snap rings would be eliminated on both sides of the bottom bracket so a split collar can be installed on the pedal side of the axle as well to keep the axle in place. The pedal side components could then be reinstalled and no machine work required at all. This will work if the pedal lever on the pedal side has enough room to clear everything & if not a session with the torch can bend it into compliance.. Chain line on the pedal side will almost certainly be altered some as well, but shims or bushing will do quite well, in place of the split collar on the pedal side, where adjustment is relatively non critical compared to the clutch side. The only thing required on the clutch side is to loosen the split collar and adjust enough to allow the pedal lever to be mounted. Install the split collar properly and then shim the shaft between the clutch & bottom bracket bearing to maintain the correct chain lines. The simple removal of both snap rings is the key to making this work. That and having enough shaft length on the pedal side to work with and if you're using Pat's 3/4" bottom bracket shaft and pedal drive components you will have plenty of length.
I've been riding the Harley Peashooter set up this way for two years and no problems encountered by eliminating the snap rings. Do this and you'll have the problem solved before the New year. Or you can have a new shaft machined, just cost more and take longer...with no improvement in performance.
Rick C.
Steve have you looked at the possibility of just moving the bottom bracket shaft the required distance to mount the pedal lever & installing a spacer bushing between the clutch & bottom bracket bearing to maintain correct spacing? The shaft axle snap rings would be eliminated on both sides of the bottom bracket so a split collar can be installed on the pedal side of the axle as well to keep the axle in place. The pedal side components could then be reinstalled and no machine work required at all. This will work if the pedal lever on the pedal side has enough room to clear everything & if not a session with the torch can bend it into compliance.. Chain line on the pedal side will almost certainly be altered some as well, but shims or bushing will do quite well, in place of the split collar on the pedal side, where adjustment is relatively non critical compared to the clutch side. The only thing required on the clutch side is to loosen the split collar and adjust enough to allow the pedal lever to be mounted. Install the split collar properly and then shim the shaft between the clutch & bottom bracket bearing to maintain the correct chain lines. The simple removal of both snap rings is the key to making this work. That and having enough shaft length on the pedal side to work with and if you're using Pat's 3/4" bottom bracket shaft and pedal drive components you will have plenty of length.
I've been riding the Harley Peashooter set up this way for two years and no problems encountered by eliminating the snap rings. Do this and you'll have the problem solved before the New year. Or you can have a new shaft machined, just cost more and take longer...with no improvement in performance.
Rick C.
One additional detail Steve is that the bottom brackets internal bearing spacer tube needs to be in place as well to help offset side load forces to the two bearings.
Rick C.
Rick C.
Hi Steve,
Rick made a good point, adding two new snap ring grooves 1.5" offset might work. either way another tear down is in the offing. You would need to extend the key way for the pedal sprocket also.
I spent time in my shop yesterday installing a breather catch can and sorting out installation of fenders on the Flyer.
Tom from Rubicon
Rick made a good point, adding two new snap ring grooves 1.5" offset might work. either way another tear down is in the offing. You would need to extend the key way for the pedal sprocket also.
I spent time in my shop yesterday installing a breather catch can and sorting out installation of fenders on the Flyer.
Tom from Rubicon
Tom my pedal side keyway has more than 2" extending past the pedal sprocket & collar. Perhaps different runs of shafts were machined differently? At any rate patience with a Dremel & fiber cut off wheel can extend the keyway as required. I've not seen a need on my setup for the snap rings, just need to them shim properly. There could possibly be a little wear down on the shims given time, but I sure haven't noticed any to this point. If they eventually wear it's a quick & insignificant maintenance item. Much easier than periodic setting of valve lash on an 4 cycle engine. With the lock collars on the outside of both the clutch & pedal side of the shaft there is no place for the shimmed & keyed components to go.
I've ridden this setup for quite a few miles with no sign of any problem and this being driven through a 5 speed 125 cc.with 5 times the torque and hp of the tricar.
Rick C.
I've ridden this setup for quite a few miles with no sign of any problem and this being driven through a 5 speed 125 cc.with 5 times the torque and hp of the tricar.
Rick C.
Photo of my Harley pedal side shaft. There is a sprocket installed it's just really tiny 14 t. The keyway extends quite a way past the lock collar.
Just looked at the Simplex and realized I'd not used the snap rings on it either. This was due to not being able to line up the chain lines on the CG 125 & balance the motor in frame. Now the Simplex has three times the miles on it compared to the Harley with no concerns.
Rick C.
Shiny things Curt. I'm worse than a crow.
I was quite content with a Briggs and Stratton engine then I saw Rick at Ricks Rides use a Jacobson engine on a build and it looked as close to an Indian motor as I was ever going to get.
Then I was going to use a Hillard clutch until the Bully clutch came along then that became a 3D clutch when that was available.
Then I saw Brian's Harley Davidson on 3D's website and wanted to have a pedal start. Of course the bike had to be as close as possible to looking original as possible. A pox on being an reproduction antique furniture maker where authentic details were all powerful.
All of this is because I saw a photo 9 years ago and said that would be easy to build.
As my English Grandmother once said "That boy could talk himself into going to his own hanging."
I wear that truth with great pride.
Steve.
Rick,
This is why you and Tom get the big money. Shuffled myself out to the garage and looked at the pedal shaft ect. If I remove the C clips and move the shaft over to the left I may be able to gain what I need. My measurement of what I needed was generous to say the least. Probably 5/8" will work.
Looking at it today from the right side of the shaft I can see that a half inch plus shift to the left would probably clear the area where the pedal mounts.
There is a 1/2" of key way left that the pedal sprocket key isn't using. With the C Clips removed I could slide the pedal shaft to the left and gain the space needed.
I see what you did in the photo you included and it is the same as what I have. I'll shift the pedal sprocket out towards the end of the shaft and add a split collar. I happen to have a fine selection of them. If buying one's good what can buying 10 be but ten times better.
I have some 3/4" bronze washers and I'll try and use one as a shim between the pedal sprocket and bottom bracket bearing.
I didn't receive a bearing spacer with the pedal crank but I'll put one in when everything is apart. I'll add photos of what the right side of the pedal shaft is like.
Back at it Wednesday. I'll be helping with the cooking tomorrow.
Thank you once again.
Steve.
This is why you and Tom get the big money. Shuffled myself out to the garage and looked at the pedal shaft ect. If I remove the C clips and move the shaft over to the left I may be able to gain what I need. My measurement of what I needed was generous to say the least. Probably 5/8" will work.
Looking at it today from the right side of the shaft I can see that a half inch plus shift to the left would probably clear the area where the pedal mounts.
There is a 1/2" of key way left that the pedal sprocket key isn't using. With the C Clips removed I could slide the pedal shaft to the left and gain the space needed.
I see what you did in the photo you included and it is the same as what I have. I'll shift the pedal sprocket out towards the end of the shaft and add a split collar. I happen to have a fine selection of them. If buying one's good what can buying 10 be but ten times better.
I have some 3/4" bronze washers and I'll try and use one as a shim between the pedal sprocket and bottom bracket bearing.
I didn't receive a bearing spacer with the pedal crank but I'll put one in when everything is apart. I'll add photos of what the right side of the pedal shaft is like.
Back at it Wednesday. I'll be helping with the cooking tomorrow.
Thank you once again.
Steve.