Rules For Racing...
- Thread starter culvercityclassic
- Start date
No body is going to detune the way a 4 stroke or Happy Time two stroke kit came right out of the box to meet your supposed criteria. Has not happened yet.
Well at about two H.P. there is beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can already race with those folks! Pretty kewl aye? This means that you don't have to change rules or anything. Guessing you did not know this?? But they have different race classes already established for different folks with different strokes.
what does this mean for you? It is very simple just race in that class and leave the other folks to what they want to appreciate.
Have not caught on by now you never will. Mebbe you would need to go around the track really slow in an effort just to catch on? Mebbe ''you'' just have to go slow for a reason??
You are the Cult fiction. IMHO didja know there are different race classes already established. One should already be perfect for you??
I can see it now !! You really do need to go slower around the track. Folks are racing here. If it were not then it would simply be a slow motion contest.Again I feel I'm not a "match" for this cult or sport or whatever it is...
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At last once again you can race in a slower class pretty simple huh?
Here is the funny part. Wait for it is a gonna be pretty funny too.. They have different race classes what I propose you do is join the slower one. Then you can fit in and say it was your idea all along.
This 0ne H.P. deal you may just be on your own tho........
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Please read what the OP posted yesterday here:
What does this have to do with anything??? Rules for racing? I think not.
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What does this have to do with anything??? Rules for racing? I think not.
One more graph might make me puke..........seriously.Remanence, Saturation and Conservative Design
First of all I have to laugh a bit at you Thud for running a motor up to 9k rpm. That's a clear example of a "poor design decision" that causes a small issue to become a big one.
A lot of times the answer is "just don't do that".
Right now some will gasp "oh no, another technical discussion"... but please hang in there, these ideas are relevent to a low powered ebike racing class and how the rules should be defined.
Try to make a mental picture of the iron core and it's behavior curve seen above. The essential point to grasp is that when you drive iron above a certain level of saturation it sort of gets magnetized itself. In fact computer memory was first practiced with big transformers that were driven to saturation in order to produce a "memory" bit. This memory is called Remanence and is the cause of losses. The faster you attempt to transverse the loop and the DEEPER you go into it the worse things get.
Now here's were we either go "brilliant" or more accurately "common sense", if you could simply RESPECT the performance curve of the iron and maintain reasonable rpms and prevent saturation of the iron you will be able to run the motor efficiently.
Big industrial electric motors are not spun up to 9k rpms or anything near it, they also do not saturate the iron core because long, long ago designers learned that conservative designs actually work better !!!!
Okay this is where the total idiot jumps in...
"Hey man, I don't want to ride a low powered ebike, I want power, power, power, I HAVE TO screw up the motor design in order to make my ebike feel like a motorcycle."
Yeah, well I'm hearing that a lot these days and getting really tired of it. Get a motorcycle !!! And get over it, because the ONLY value in the ebike that makes it unique is that pedal power and motor power are integrated into a unified whole. Lose that and you just have a stupid sport of "motorcycle retards".
The "bottom line" is that an electric motor that is run within it's conservative design spec will perform flawlessly pretty much forever. This should be all we need and the rules should encourage this physical reality as much as possible.
Constant motor current racing where current is not enough to saturate the iron will produce higher efficiency and those are the facts... they really are.
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In my own race series, I love the fact that my "never be any good" CG Honda consistently beats "superior" ohc and 2 stroke engines, and we have that sort of camaraderie, where people will work to keep each other on the track. Mixed class racing is great, the only proviso is that actual machine performance needs to have some sort of parity to avoid excessive speed difference in hazardous areas.
Shoot I was just ready to debate with you and now you are going to leave. I just pulled the motor and speed drive out of the a/c unit at work. It all fits on my Schwinn perfect. Took some of the batteries out of the fire panel to wire up...found some oo wire too....O-well
"Ohm's law states that the current through a conductor between two points is directly proportional to the potential difference across the two points. Introducing the constant of proportionality, the resistance, one arrives at the usual mathematical equation that describes this relationship:
where I is the current through the conductor in units of amperes, V is the potential difference measured across the conductor in units of volts, and R is the resistance of the conductor in units of ohms. More specifically, Ohm's law states that the R in this relation is constant, independent of the current.
The law was named after the German physicist Georg Ohm, who, in a treatise published in 1827, described measurements of applied voltage and current through simple electrical circuits containing various lengths of wire. He presented a slightly more complex equation than the one above (see History section below) to explain his experimental results. The above equation is the modern form of Ohm's law.
In physics, the term Ohm's law is also used to refer to various generalizations of the law originally formulated by Ohm. The simplest example of this is:
where J is the current density at a given location in a resistive material, E is the electric field at that location, and σ is a material dependent parameter called the conductivity. This reformulation of Ohm's law is due to Gustav Kirchhoff".
"Ohm's law states that the current through a conductor between two points is directly proportional to the potential difference across the two points. Introducing the constant of proportionality, the resistance, one arrives at the usual mathematical equation that describes this relationship:
where I is the current through the conductor in units of amperes, V is the potential difference measured across the conductor in units of volts, and R is the resistance of the conductor in units of ohms. More specifically, Ohm's law states that the R in this relation is constant, independent of the current.
The law was named after the German physicist Georg Ohm, who, in a treatise published in 1827, described measurements of applied voltage and current through simple electrical circuits containing various lengths of wire. He presented a slightly more complex equation than the one above (see History section below) to explain his experimental results. The above equation is the modern form of Ohm's law.
In physics, the term Ohm's law is also used to refer to various generalizations of the law originally formulated by Ohm. The simplest example of this is:
where J is the current density at a given location in a resistive material, E is the electric field at that location, and σ is a material dependent parameter called the conductivity. This reformulation of Ohm's law is due to Gustav Kirchhoff".
Volts x Amps = Watts And you know current is measuered in amps........you're not lost at all
now back to our regular scheduled rules........
ok, rule #714 states that we as psuedo racers are a bunch of hose bags that pretend we are racing and having some serious fun! No exceptions.
And you know current is measuered in amps........you're not lost at all now back to our regular scheduled rules........
ok, rule #714 states that we as psuedo racers are a bunch of hose bags that pretend we are racing and having some serious fun! No exceptions.
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Yes, but what's Ohm doing? Or are we Ohmless?
But yes, back to the rules. I think a max output for i/c engines is a good idea. What about an anything you like engine rule, but you must be able to pedal the thing at a good pace for a lap, and the engines all have to breathe through a specified (tiny) size of restrictor plate? After a bit, you find the ideal engine size and weight balance without turning it into all out $$$ war. And 12bhp is quite high as given room enough, somebody skinny, ducked out of the wind, can hit about 80mph.
But yes, back to the rules. I think a max output for i/c engines is a good idea. What about an anything you like engine rule, but you must be able to pedal the thing at a good pace for a lap, and the engines all have to breathe through a specified (tiny) size of restrictor plate? After a bit, you find the ideal engine size and weight balance without turning it into all out $$$ war. And 12bhp is quite high as given room enough, somebody skinny, ducked out of the wind, can hit about 80mph.
I say we should race 'Mad Max- Roller Derby style'!
We'll have a few small gangs of bikes on the track with bats & chains, & each gang can fight each other while trying to 'slingshot' a racer carrying a football across the finish line!
We could even have the 'gassers' vs the 'electrics'!
We'll have a few small gangs of bikes on the track with bats & chains, & each gang can fight each other while trying to 'slingshot' a racer carrying a football across the finish line!
We could even have the 'gassers' vs the 'electrics'!
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heh, like those old games Road Rash 1-3. Low-speed hard-hitters like me might have a fighting chance of placing in the top three with those rules!I say we should race 'Mad Max- Roller Derby style'!
We'll have a few small gangs of bikes on the track with bats & chains, & each gang can fight each other while trying to 'slingshot' a racer carrying a football across the finish line!
lol, prolly not, that might be bike abuse
yes, i am old, fat, slow, but i think Norm has found my calling. now if we can get that cult guy to field a team...ahhh the good ole day's ...
The demi concept has something going here. Only rule, stay within the fences. Loggie fight to the finish! When there's high speed T-boning, you'd better have friends, someone that'd let you hop on the back, else others would make passes at 'ya blow'in sloppy mouthfuls each time. All pasty out in the hot sun. The last one upright on 2 wheels could take groody fotos, post 'em and brag about what a great time.
1kw might be a little too powerful for a novice. In order to attract new blood, I recomment a new beginner racing class. This is how I got started anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vat19com?v=qqpcBpSsj1A
http://www.youtube.com/user/vat19com?v=qqpcBpSsj1A
In a good ol logging fight I would go for the turbo spoke users like it was bonus points...Almost well uh mebbe mandatory