Rules For Racing...

[wolf-jr]

So many rules here and there... We should just have classes based on the cc's of the motors (49cc, 66cc, 99cc, 150-180cc, etc..) and also wether its a 4 stroke or 2 stroke. Pretty much what we already do.

More rules? Not much, I think it's just good to try to keep it simple.

Main rule should be don't be an a$$ on the track... that you need a motorized BICYCLE (that means it has functioning pedals) and a bike that won't fall apart...
I guess you could say that some just race aggressive, but thats just how people get hurt (in my opinion). Basically all you could do about people racing in a bad way is give them warnings than disqualification from a race, or a whole event. Although, thinking about this just makes me see arguments and frustration.


Or....

We can ALL get on a bike and just race around the track for the fun of it, whoever stays on their bike the whole time wins (no cruising, no trophies).

The great thing about motorized bicycle races is that it's not like nascar, where all the parts are made and it's all about the money and someone who knows how to race...
In motorized bicycle races, a HUGE part is finding new ways to get faster and faster, and experiencing with new parts or new garage made components that only you have, so theres not much you should limit about the motor parts...

Anyways.... I'm just glad theres no rules against turbos or super chargers... I know what my next bike will have..

-Iceman

 

[bairdco]

rule #5: no turbos or superchargers.

 

[scotto-]

rule #5: no turbos or superchargers.

and good ol' rule #6: .......there are NO rules!

 

[bairdco]

i'm just goofin'...

kristophe's no-ped is the only "bike" without pedals that i know of. yeah, it's not a bicycle, but where do we draw the line? the machines you guys are building don't exactly fit the description of a bicycle, either. your pedals are little more than offset footpegs.

bikes that don't fall apart? not many of us can make that claim. parts actually flying off is one thing, and dangerous, but that happens in any form of racing. hopefully, the corner workers can do a good job of getting parts off the track. as well as spotting and flagging unsportsman-like racers (do we really have that problem?)

i think most of the (legitamate) rules posted so far are things we already do. my gripe is, you guys wanna make up rules, but how many times have any of you helped out at the track? how many of you have pitched in a few extra bucks to cover the costs, besides just your entry fees?

mostly, it's set up your pits and crack some beers.

try entering any form of established racing and try to dictate your rules to the organizers. see how well that goes over.

i'm not complaining, just stating facts. you guys know i ask for your input on just about every aspect of my races. if there's something we can do better, i'm all for it.

we class bikes by size, pedals are mandatory, front and rear brakes are a must on bikes over 25mph, and proper safety gear is required at my races.

what else do we need? seems like any other rules posted are just to force someone else out of your class. pedals? ok, kristophe can't race. gas don't wanna run with electrics? ok, we cancel both classes for lack of enough entrants.

just because you don't like someone, or don't wanna get beat by someone isn't a good enough reason to make rules that only benefit you.

we can make all the rules you want, but it won't work when there's not enough people to fill a class.

we're still at the low budget, fun stage of racing. hopefully it grows, and hopefully, it's still fun.

or i'm gonna take my ball and go home...

 

[scotto-]

I'll race against anyone on anything anytime, I don't mind smokin the electrics or the ladies on their 66cc chinas.......bring it on! Like I said, rule #6: there are no rules and I can pedal or motor my race bike

#3....... you know who

i'm just goofin'...

kristophe's no-ped is the only "bike" without pedals that i know of. yeah, it's not a bicycle, but where do we draw the line? the machines you guys are building don't exactly fit the description of a bicycle, either. your pedals are little more than offset footpegs.

bikes that don't fall apart? not many of us can make that claim. parts actually flying off is one thing, and dangerous, but that happens in any form of racing. hopefully, the corner workers can do a good job of getting parts off the track. as well as spotting and flagging unsportsman-like racers (do we really have that problem?)

i think most of the (legitamate) rules posted so far are things we already do. my gripe is, you guys wanna make up rules, but how many times have any of you helped out at the track? how many of you have pitched in a few extra bucks to cover the costs, besides just your entry fees?

mostly, it's set up your pits and crack some beers.

try entering any form of established racing and try to dictate your rules to the organizers. see how well that goes over.

i'm not complaining, just stating facts. you guys know i ask for your input on just about every aspect of my races. if there's something we can do better, i'm all for it.

we class bikes by size, pedals are mandatory, front and rear brakes are a must on bikes over 25mph, and proper safety gear is required at my races.

what else do we need? seems like any other rules posted are just to force someone else out of your class. pedals? ok, kristophe can't race. gas don't wanna run with electrics? ok, we cancel both classes for lack of enough entrants.

just because you don't like someone, or don't wanna get beat by someone isn't a good enough reason to make rules that only benefit you.

we can make all the rules you want, but it won't work when there's not enough people to fill a class.

we're still at the low budget, fun stage of racing. hopefully it grows, and hopefully, it's still fun.

or i'm gonna take my ball and go home...

 

[culvercityclassic]

I think we need some ideas for rules with the racing classes. This will make it fair and safe.

I will start off with two that have been on my mind for some time:

1. Bike must have working pedals and be able to pedal at least a 100 feet. This applies to all classes.

2. Bike must have front and rear working brakes, this applies to all classes.

I started with two fair rules and this gets all wacked out. I build the bike to go by these two rules. Why is that such a hard thing to go by...

Baird you would let anyone race just so you can say I am the best, this was the best event...I have the best bike..I have the fastest bike....I....I...I...me....me....me...your a cry baby....

Let Neil run the races...so we can see how great you are on the track...

 

[magrider]

3 classes.

slow-30mph and under
Intermediate-30-45mph
fast- over 45mph

Use the heats (motos) for what they are meant for, if your too slow you go down a class. Too fast move up a class. Most important, starting line for the final.

functioning pedals are a given, bike safety and rider safety are #1

 

[bairdco]

im on the track till my bike breaks or the checkered flag drops. never said i was the best. never made it all about me. never wanted to. i just wanted to race with my friends. after busting my ass trying to pull this off, i'm losing races, money, motors, and friends.

this was supposed to be fun, right?

 

[wolf-jr]

i'm just goofin'...

kristophe's no-ped is the only "bike" without pedals that i know of. yeah, it's not a bicycle, but where do we draw the line? the machines you guys are building don't exactly fit the description of a bicycle, either. your pedals are little more than offset footpegs.

bikes that don't fall apart? not many of us can make that claim. parts actually flying off is one thing, and dangerous, but that happens in any form of racing. hopefully, the corner workers can do a good job of getting parts off the track. as well as spotting and flagging unsportsman-like racers (do we really have that problem?)

i think most of the (legitamate) rules posted so far are things we already do. my gripe is, you guys wanna make up rules, but how many times have any of you helped out at the track? how many of you have pitched in a few extra bucks to cover the costs, besides just your entry fees?

mostly, it's set up your pits and crack some beers.

try entering any form of established racing and try to dictate your rules to the organizers. see how well that goes over.

i'm not complaining, just stating facts. you guys know i ask for your input on just about every aspect of my races. if there's something we can do better, i'm all for it.

we class bikes by size, pedals are mandatory, front and rear brakes are a must on bikes over 25mph, and proper safety gear is required at my races.

what else do we need? seems like any other rules posted are just to force someone else out of your class. pedals? ok, kristophe can't race. gas don't wanna run with electrics? ok, we cancel both classes for lack of enough entrants.

just because you don't like someone, or don't wanna get beat by someone isn't a good enough reason to make rules that only benefit you.

we can make all the rules you want, but it won't work when there's not enough people to fill a class.

we're still at the low budget, fun stage of racing. hopefully it grows, and hopefully, it's still fun.

or i'm gonna take my ball and go home...

Our pedals may be offset foot pegs but the larger four strokes that are built, have everything built around those pedals... which can take a lot of modifications and such. If it can pedal a good enough distance, its a bicycle.

I mean... no pedals? Whats gonna stop me from bringing a small dirt bike with road tires...

I guess you could say I'm trying to get rid of my competition... but thats just a bunch of bull crap to say that. If it doesn't have pedals, its not a motorized bicycle. And the last time I checked, these are Motorized BICYCLE Races. I could come back at you and say that the only class you care about is your two stroke class, and that you don't care about the higher classes, but I don't. Like CCC said, pedals is such a simple thing to ask for, we're not trying to take other people out of the race so we can win, we're simply asking for a Motorized BICYCLE race.


Oh, and Baird.. Both CCC and I usually throw in some extra cash on top of our entry fee to help fund the races. It really should be that one person hosts all the races, or a group.

 

[buck0]

I'm gonna have fun racing & hang out with my friends that I have something in common with, building a bike and racing it. Let's all calm down and fun some fun at the races!!
Sorry I just had to cut the tension here.

 

[bairdco]

iceman, my post wasn't directed specifically at you. but honestly, i don't know what we're arguing about. i've always stated that all bikes must have functioning pedals. except for the no-ped, which both neil and i have let compete, everyone else has pedals, right? am i missing something?

i totally agree that it's a motorized bicycle race, so what's the problem?

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

Yes, this all needs to stay fun!
Yes, they need to have pedals.
Yes, they need to have good brakes (& saftey equipment).
Yes, I think everything MagRider said needs to happen... The Motos need to be used to put riders in their proper class & starting position.

I also think that ALL racers must take at least one turn out on the track helping to flag the corners, or help with scoring ,(or what ever's needed). (That's how it's done in R/C car racing).

I raced R/C cars for many years, & the rules they use would work well for us too.

& Yes, THIS NEEDS TO STAY FUN!

 

[bairdco]

amen...

i'd also like to thank venice motor bikes for being a sponsor of the bairdco racing series.

thanks for your support, norm!

 

[SoSauty]

Outstanding, forgo the 2 little interior curves on the SE corner. Opens up a little straight then a sweeper I think'll enhance passing. No other changes needed.

Think 2stroke big/small, 4stroke big/small, electric big/small is a changing target. Group by past finishes and/or top speed so there's enough bikes for competitive fun in every class. Avoid 4 bikes in 2 classes and 25 in a single class. If by 'expert, sports, begginner' you intend to balance the numbers some, then I 2nd the concept!

Regardless, gonna be some close contests this 9/15!

 

[Dave31]

All I know is we have came a long way from the outlaw races starting back in 2006. Kinda miss those days....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-clBw9OujzU&feature=plcp

 

[scotto-]

It should be about traction, aerodynamics, drafting, and pedal power. And of course race strategy, track position, lines, etc...

This is how we race and it is history in the making.......believe it or not? It's plain and simple motorized bicycles racing each other, not futuristic rocket science. We race for fun, not to make a living.

 

[biknut]

The biggest problem is becoming too much like motorcycles.

--------------------
Too much power and the pedals become meaningless and you "really" need to compare yourself to things like Moto3 which uses 250cc motors and they hit top speeds somewhere near 150mph.

Long ago they had Formula1, Formula2, Formula3.... Over time they dropped the 50cc class and the smallest class was 125cc.

Now its MotoGP, Moto2, Moto3... all four stroke.

As I see it this sport is effectively "Moto5" (or greater) and the use of the pedals as a real part of the sport should be encouraged as much as possible.
A lot of people are not going to take this very seriously because it's mostly a sort of joke to be racing so slowly. But cyclists race just as slowly and they manage to make it interesting.

Electric power is easy to precisely control and that (I believe) will be important to the sport in the future.

(not so much now because the "motorcycle confusion" is still taking place)

The key is all about "power restriction". The more closely restricted the bikes the better the racing.

(well duh)

I've think along the same lines about pedals, and motor bicycles.

In my mind the most distinctive difference between a motorcycle, and a motor bicycle, are the pedals, and not just having them, but the fact that they're totally functional.

So what that means is, if you're talking about racing motor bicycles, and not motorcycles, then pedaling has to have some bearing on the outcome of the race. Otherwise all you're really doing is racing slow motorcycles.

As one example, how about having to pedal the last 100 yards (or whatever) of a race?

 

[SoSauty]

Rode in a 'Century' charity ride with my e-commuter bike this labor day weekend. For 30miles I traded places with a strong bicycle club racer. He killed me down slope and had me on the level as well, but I'd edge by him up 9% 900' slopes.

Similiar to Safe, I thought, Why not a quality fly weight skinny tire racer, all tucked in with a Mac geared electric 1500W, aero batt pack in triangle, ohhhh. . . think I could touch 35mph+ on 1.6hp/1.5K. Hmmm, then I realized that pants, knee/elbow pads, DOT helmet, so on. . are required. No thanks to a salty helmet and sweat soaked underdrawers.
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/07/31/2013-raleigh-road-triathlon-cyclocross-bikes-photos-specs-weights/
Not to knock Safe's concept, most folks clamor to stay rooted to some aspect of "bicycle," maybe we can get there someday. For now, pedalling out of corners is realistic, though only in 50cc and China Girl classes. Less true in 10hp and forget about in exhibition class.

We need an entry level class to draw new converts. Sometimes the lo-power races are close, but that needs to happen more. How to fire up an inexpensive lo-power class with close finishes?
1) The 50' pedal start, or similiar, for a 50cc/1.5K class IMO would be a 'fun factor' and helpful
2) If you lap 2nd place in a heat, you race in the next faster class.
3) Group racers to enhance tighter racing with 12+ in every class

This should be at the heart of our discussion IMO.

 

[scotto-]

I've think along the same lines about pedals, and motor bicycles.

In my mind the most distinctive difference between a motorcycle, and a motor bicycle, are the pedals, and not just having them, but the fact that they're totally functional.

So what that means is, if you're talking about racing motor bicycles, and not motorcycles, then pedaling has to have some bearing on the outcome of the race. Otherwise all you're really doing is racing slow motorcycles.

As one example, how about having to pedal the last 100 yards (or whatever) of a race?

Kinda funny when I was racing my 49cc HS 4-stroke, I pedaled almost half of the race and it was silly racing so slow and working so hard.

I much prefer racing larger 4-strokes and not have to resort to pedaling unless it becomes neccesary. You have to come to the races and participate to even know what the heck it's all about.

The sidelines are for football games, not motorized bicycle racing!

Let's RACE!

 

[Goat Herder]

You can only go so slow... then it is just a slow motion contest racing is racing... it is a.. supposed to be fast.

Even these alleged peddle racers that do it for a living in the ''spandex outfits'' are going way faster than the average kit bike. Because they is racing.

How about a link to this 50cc 100 miles an hour motor that's from ancient history books? lol. It would be Kewl to read up on it!


What could be done is to invent a custom race track that is too cornering tight and dangerous to exceed 20 to 15 miles an hour? Yet these tracks in use now hold faster machines than our average M.B. Kinda sounds redundant? I get the idea and am of the opinion the tracks they are currently using now are absolutely perfect for this sport!

All this can be solved with endurance. Make it a 500 lap race. You put a professional peddling champion ''tour de france type'' with a motor assist! can prolly make it happen lol. That fellow is going to be extremely fast !!


You can do away with any power assist and make'em peddle only.. then you will have a crew going faster than a average kit bike. ''this has already happened'' Tour in France for a perfect example....