Indian Tadpole

[silverbear]

"This will give you a idea how it will go together. I still have to get the sprin activater rods figured out the school the did the plasma cutting lost my pattern and the steel supply yard said it was to small for them to cut. It would not be to bad to do buy hand if I get the right width metal............Curt"

 

[silverbear]

"Its hard to see the three leafs I can take another shot outside if you want and repost it?.....................Curt"

Curt,
I lightened up the last photo so I think it is OK. Thanks so much for taking the time to send the photos. Together with your commentary it will be of help to someone who also loves these old time suspension forks. I can see that a lot of thought and work goes into their making and believe me, it is much appreciated. I can't wait to see one on my Indian.

I have some more donor forks. Would it help if I sent you the Worksman fork on the bike right now? Or would something longer or wider be better? In the picture showing the two forks next to each other, the one on the left looks like the Monarch fork I sent to Steve and which he then sent to you (that fork gets around). Maybe we won't have to send it on the final leg of the journey. I don't know if you're still thinking about coming up this way or not. It could be that when we go to Hutchinson, MN to pick up the Sachs engines we can come through Brainerd to pick up the forks. It would be nice to meet you and your family, see your shop where you do your mischief and look over your bicycle projects, donors and rusty stuff.

The other fork looks like it is from an Elgin. Is that what I sent you? Don't remember. Anyway, let me know how long it is, how wide it is and whether something else would be better... if so, I can look to see if I have something more suitable (or the Worksman fork) and send them off to you. I can post photos. I have some long ones from vintage ladies bikes including a 39 Hiawatha which is donating its fenders to the project already. The Hiawatha has an interesting and different bend in the fork design Maybe it would be better? Or is it too late to be thinking about a different fork? My questions reveal just some of all that I don't know. Glad you're doing this and not me. I wouldn't know how, but thanks to you I'm learning. So are we all.
Your work looks great. I'm excited, Bud!
SB

 

[fasteddy]

Curt,
That is incredible work. I have been trying to imagine what the forks would look like but never imagined something as involved and as wonderfull as this.

Now to build a bike worthy of the forks. That will be hard to do.

Thank you.

Steve.

 

[curtisfox]

Curt,
That is incredible work. I have been trying to imagine what the forks would look like but never imagined something as involved and as wonderfull as this.

Now to build a bike worthy of the forks. That will be hard to do.

Thank you.

Steve.

You should see all the pictures I went through to get ideas. and finialy looked at my Monark springer and regular Monark and desided what the and more or less coppied them. I was getting no were the other way because it seemed like I wanted to make one of each or part of.
So far its good but its all trial and ear until one gets to ride it and see.
Just like LouieMCman his first atemped.

Thats what is GREAT about this fourm is you can read and learn before doing,And boy am I learning............Curt

 

[silverbear]

Curtis said,

"This may give a better idea what the direrance is. The Monark on the left also has a rise in the center,gives adional clearance."

(cont.)

 

[silverbear]

"You can see the differance this is my Monark fork. If you put a spring there and still have room for movment it gets tight."

(cont)

 

[silverbear]

"The monarks are 15" long and 2 5/8" to 2 3/4 wide between the tubs.
It might be posable to add some to the bottom of the fork if needed to make room........................Curt"

 

[silverbear]

So Curtis, the measurements which are important are the length of the fork legs and how wide they are apart., is that right? What about the length of the upper part which fits into the head tube? Is any additional length there of any benefit? It is in the upper part where the vintage ladies forks are noticeably longer. I'll do some measuring tomorrow on the leg length and width. Nice work, bud!These are gonna be cool...
SB

 

[curtisfox]

"Its hard to see the three leafs I can take another shot outside if you want and repost it?.....................Curt"

Curt,
I lightened up the last photo so I think it is OK. Thanks so much for taking the time to send the photos. Together with your commentary it will be of help to someone who also loves these old time suspension forks. I can see that a lot of thought and work goes into their making and believe me, it is much appreciated. I can't wait to see one on my Indian.

I have some more donor forks. Would it help if I sent you the Worksman fork on the bike right now? Or would something longer or wider be better? In the picture showing the two forks next to each other, the one on the left looks like the Monarch fork I sent to Steve and which he then sent to you (that fork gets around). Maybe we won't have to send it on the final leg of the journey. I don't know if you're still thinking about coming up this way or not. It could be that when we go to Hutchinson, MN to pick up the Sachs engines we can come through Brainerd to pick up the forks. It would be nice to meet you and your family, see your shop where you do your mischief and look over your bicycle projects, donors and rusty stuff.

The other fork looks like it is from an Elgin. Is that what I sent you? Don't remember. Anyway, let me know how long it is, how wide it is and whether something else would be better... if so, I can look to see if I have something more suitable (or the Worksman fork) and send them off to you. I can post photos. I have some long ones from vintage ladies bikes including a 39 Hiawatha which is donating its fenders to the project already. The Hiawatha has an interesting and different bend in the fork design Maybe it would be better? Or is it too late to be thinking about a different fork? My questions reveal just some of all that I don't know. Glad you're doing this and not me. I wouldn't know how, but thanks to you I'm learning. So are we all.
Your work looks great. I'm excited, Bud!
SB

It looks ok you can see the three leafs. Kind of funny had a hard time finding a pair at first and now I can get more if needed,as for now I have enough

If you can find one or two the length or close to the mesurments in the post I would like to do some more expiermenting,and the one steve sent is not A Monark. So if you have one that will work for his. It would save a little extra work.I haven't done any welding yet.

Yes that is the Monark you sent and the other is one I had ( dump find ) It seems that the old Monarks are going to be hard to come buy

The plans are changing the Bluberry fest is out Grand Rapids car show and swap meet is winning out,the same weekend. And Diana found out that her brother is going to be up at deer river around that time. So might just go to your place and come down the north shore home after. When is your Hutchinson run? .............Curt

 

[curtisfox]

So Curtis, the measurements which are important are the length of the fork legs and how wide they are apart., is that right? What about the length of the upper part which fits into the head tube? Is any additional length there of any benefit? It is in the upper part where the vintage ladies forks are noticeably longer. I'll do some measuring tomorrow on the leg length and width. Nice work, bud!These are gonna be cool...
SB

You got it! Buy the time you get the spring in there it will almost take up 3/4" of that space and still need room for tire to move up and down. But this is still trial and ear so won't realy know untill get one done.
I could add to a shorter one just by welding some metal down there but it makes the flat part were the dropouts are look longer. Might not be to noticable with all the other hardware on,pivits and all............Curt

Oh if they are ladiesforks I can shorten then no problum. But to do that it takes another fork tube to split for a sleve inside and should have the lower bearing and race on before cutting,don't need to grind the weld down to nothing and stronger that way.

 

[silverbear]

It looks ok you can see the three leafs. Kind of funny had a hard time finding a pair at first and now I can get more if needed,as for now I have enough

If you can find one or two the length or close to the mesurments in the post I would like to do some more expiermenting,and the one steve sent is not A Monark. So if you have one that will work for his. It would save a little extra work.I haven't done any welding yet.

Yes that is the Monark you sent and the other is one I had ( dump find ) It seems that the old Monarks are going to be hard to come buy

The plans are changing the Bluberry fest is out Grand Rapids car show and swap meet is winning out,the same weekend. And Diana found out that her brother is going to be up at deer river around that time. So might just go to your place and come down the north shore home after. When is your Hutchinson run? .............Curt

If you say so... I thought Steve had the Monarch along with the frame I sent him. I like to return this memory of mine in a\on a new one that works better. It matters not, but I don't have another Monarch fork, just some Schwinns and Elgins, one Hiawatha. I do have the Worksman fork on the Indian right now, so tomorrow will do some measuring.

I don't know when we're going to Hutchinson. First Steve has to get here and I imagine will be road weary... a few days anyway before hitting the road again. Also we have to co-ordinate with Dave, the seller of the engines. We should know more in a week or week and a half. Whether here at my place or there at yours it will be nice to meet in person after all this time of knowing each other on the forum. I've met some great people here.

By this time a year from now I expect to be riding around on my Indian. Your leaf suspension fork will be a big part of the build that people will look at and comment on. And next winter I expect that Dan (Tinsmith) will be doing more than just looking over my shoulder as the coffin shaped copper gas tank is fabricated. You guys both will be part of that bike. And it goes without saying that Fasteddy will have his fingerprints all over the Indian... from welding engine mounts to making the sidecar frame. Mostly I do the dreaming and scheming. You guys are the ones who make it all happen. This bike of mine will be a group effort. And nice to think that one of my leather seats will be on Fasteddy's Indian.
I'll post some info on what I discover regarding forks tomorrow.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

The Monark is done at long last. Doing the sidecar was bad enough once but to have to do the frame over again was almost to much.
The only reason it wasn't on ebay was that I'd have to wait for the auction to end and I'm late already.
Out of here Tues. at the latest then the marathon ride begins.

I'll put the battery in tomorrow and see how it goes with the new rear wheel. The new frame is great and solid. Silverbears won't take long to build since I'm going to prebuild the main parts here and weld the frame there.

I'm putting photos on the sidecar site as soon as I finish this.

We should be headed to Huchison right after I get there. Probably the next day or two. I'll still have white line fever so we can strike while the tires are hot. Once we settle in to sitting up to our necks in the lake drinking beer and Silverbears fine meals the chances of me getting back on the road are very slim if none at all.
I'll be sitting on the sofa drinking tea every morning and evening feeding Moosh treats and life will be good.

I've bought a camcorder and Silverbear is a former video photographer so there should be some video to show what we are up to.

The little charmer that sold me the supposed Monark forks didn't get a lot for them so I'm sure what I bought may not have been what he shipped.

Steve.

 

[harry76]

Very very cool guys. Silverbear maybe you should have posted this in the boardtrack and vintage section, this bike isnt getting the exposure it deserves. I definitely look forward to seeing more. Keep it up. Im digging it.

 

[silverbear]

Harry,
This thread just kind of happened as a result of Fasteddy sending me a picture of that Indian tadpole... couldn't get that thing out my mind. I had been thinking about a three wheeler of some kind, a regular tricycle with the two wheels in back, preparing for the day when the disease in my nervous system makes walking and balancing harder to manage. I've even thought about a wheelchair with a gas engine. Ha! But when I saw that Indian tri-car it was love at first site... a tri-cycle and an old motorcycle all at the same time... woohoo! The ultimate geezermobile.

So the thread just kind of grew from there. If the bikes turn out to be worthy of attention they'll get it. Like your Villiars beach cruiser build... the interest keeps growing because it deserves to be seen. And it, too, should probably be in the board track & vintage section, but the bike started out as a kind of beach cruiser in the beginning. I'm glad it took a left turn and went back in time.

You mentioned in one post somewhere how cool it would be to get together for a ride. I often have that thought with people on this forum from places I will never see. So we look at each other's builds and hang out in each others's workplaces in the virtual world of cyberspace. And that's pretty cool, too. I think I'd rather do a group ride at your place than here. Oz and NZ have a great magnetic draw and the indigenous people I would like to meet. As a young man I once had thoughts of emigrating down under, but this is home and where I belong. That said, it is so good to know all you guys. Awesome. When the engine is purring and the wind is in my face, we are all as Mike Snyder says, "Brothers In The Wind".
SB

 

[silverbear]

I have some measurements to work with now. The first three photos show the Worksman frame and fork and next to it the 39 Hiawatha. The last shot is of four forks. To the left is a middleweight Schwinn. In the middle are two heavyweight Schwinns and to the right is a 39 Elgin. Until now I had not paid much attention to how forks differ. Now I'm looking and seeing more.

Measurements are length of the legs from top center inside to the tip of the legs.

Width is from where they start to taper in near the top. Inside measurement.

The upper section where the fork fits into the head tube is measured from the top end of the threading to the shoulder where the bearing would fit above the legs.

Look at the last photo. The two in the center before the taper are 2 7/8" from inside edge to inside edge. Legs are 14 7/8"-15"... call them 15.
The one on the left is 2 5/8" between the legs, which are 14 1/2" long.
All three of these are Schwinn and have the same head tube portion length of 6 1/2".

The Elgin on the right has a longer upper portion as does the Hiawatha in the other photos. It is 7 3/4" long.
The Hiawatha is 2 3/4" between the forks, with a true 15" leg length.
The Worksman fork is 2 3/4 inside the forks and has 14 7/8-15" legs.

You said that the Monarch fork you have from me is 2 3/4- 2 5/8" wide and has 15" legs.

So, it appears to me that the two Schwinn forks in the center are good candidates. The Worksman and Hiawatha should also work.

The middleweight Schwinn I would think is too small. The Elgin is shaped wrong, with too much taper for too long in the legs. There wouldn't me much room for the leaves of the springer. I had a couple other forks which were either obviously too short and another which was not strong enough steel. The rest of these forks are substantial hunks of heavy metal.

Is there a reason to ship a different fork to you? Is the hardware you are making specific to a particular fork? Or is it bolted to any suitable fork and is a matter of accurately drilling the mounting holes in the fork? I would think that is pretty critical. How would you suggest doing that?

I'm thinking that if the drilling is something we can do here it would save some shipping expense. The extra fork or two to give you for your projects could be hand delivered and save some shipping expense. If you need the fork in hand now which is going to go on one of our builds, let me know so that I can get it shipped off. Of the ones I have that look suitable I would say to use the Worksman on mine or one of the two Schwinns unless there is something about the bend in the legs of the Hiawatha which makes it mo betta. Steve is the Monarch man so use that one for his build.

One other thing. It isn't shown in the photo clearly because I didn't realize it might be important. All of the forks are the same at the axle mounts with flat blades and U shaped openings. The Worksman is a little different in that is is less flat, has less area around the openings, but is thicker there. Is that part of the leg of any particular importance regarding the hardware you have made up? If you want comparative photos I'll post them.

Let me know your thoughts...
SB

 

[fasteddy]

Silverbear,
It's funny that you once thought about moving to Australia.

I literally stood in the airport with a ticket in my hand paid for buy the Australian government who were wanting people to move there at that time.
The young lady hanging on my arm begging me not to go and promising many great things in our future was the deciding factor in me turning back.

Of course 6 months later the young lady and my chance to move were gone but I often wonder what direction my life would have taken had I followed my dream.

Steve.

 

[scotto-]

Silverbear,
It's funny that you once thought about moving to Australia.

I literally stood in the airport with a ticket in my hand paid for buy the Australian government who were wanting people to move there at that time.
The young lady hanging on my arm begging me not to go and promising many great things in our future was the deciding factor in me turning back.

Of course 6 months later the young lady and my chance to move were gone but I often wonder what direction my life would have taken had I followed my dream.

Steve.

Nice cutlery in that last pic SB, neat old frames too.

My guess is Steve, that you'ld still be living there enjoying a good life and prolly just be getting into motorized bikes, just like you are in the Northern hemisphere. Australia is a wonderful place with much less hustle and bustle than this part of the world.....I really miss it. You should have followed your dream!

scotto-

 

[fasteddy]

Scotto, that's very true. Still would have met interesting people and visited great places if I'd gone.
Where ever you go, your still you.

Steve.

 

[harry76]

One big problem with Australia though, motorized bikes are illegal :-(

 

[scotto-]

One big problem with Australia though, motorized bikes are illegal :-(

C'mon......not if ya live in the outback mate