Allen_Wrench
Resident Mad Scientist
Tinsmith, that bike is awesome, dude!
Worksman/EZM Stretch
- Thread starter Tinsmith
- Start date
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Do you know how that worked? I'm wondering if the spring gets bent downward as the stand comes up against the two fender extensions and then the spring tries to go back into position and holds it against the extensions. Is that how it works? Clever the things people have thought up. I'd like to see a picture of the stand in the up position.
SB
Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
Sorry SB I don’t have a photo of it upright, But yes the stand is held in place by spring pressure.
Here’s a little doodle to show how it works...
Hope it helps.
-Kirk
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silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Thank you, Kirk!
That's very helpful and gives food for thought. I wonder how spring steel can be made. It seems to me that you'd need the right kind of steel to begin with, then form it to the shape you want and then...??? sprinkle magic dust or heat & cool or something or other to make it not want to bend anymore. I'm all out of magic dust. Any ideas?
SB
Thanks again for the interest in the project. I think Kirk's little diddy is food for thought as well. Spring steel is not something I have any working knowledge of except it's good stuff. It can be brittle and it can be fairly workable such as banding steel for pallets. It wants to keep it's shape but is somewhat pliant. I did find something at the hardware store a couple days ago that may be workable with a little modification. I'm taking it into the shop in the morning to play and see what I can come up with. I'll report back. Dan
Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
There was an episode of American Chopper where they copied the rear leaf spring suspension from a mid-teens Indian.
They had blacksmith make the springs by
-Shaping them first with some sort of mild steel (type ???).
-Heating it red hot or beyond and then quenching it in dirty motor oil (that bonds carbon molecules right into the steel)
-Reheating and letting cool slowly.
While that sounds simple I’m sure it takes a lot of experience to get it right!
The beauty of the Triumph style is all the spring action comes from a common off the shelf coil spring, the clips are rigid.
-Kirk
They had blacksmith make the springs by
-Shaping them first with some sort of mild steel (type ???).
-Heating it red hot or beyond and then quenching it in dirty motor oil (that bonds carbon molecules right into the steel)
-Reheating and letting cool slowly.
While that sounds simple I’m sure it takes a lot of experience to get it right!
The beauty of the Triumph style is all the spring action comes from a common off the shelf coil spring, the clips are rigid.
-Kirk
Kirk, you are correct about needing alot of experience to get it right. We surface harden some pieces we make for customers. It involves a similar treatment. Heat it cherry red cover it in hardening powder then quench and repeat another time or two if required. The Triumph clip seems like a nice way to go. Been working on mine today involving a tension clip I found in the hardware store. Seems like it will work. I'll try to get some pictures soon. Dan
Allen_Wrench
Resident Mad Scientist
I've done a bit of work with water-hardening steel. That said, I think if you want to make spring steel I would look for somebody with more experience than me. I've done knives; that's all I can say. And it's tricky as all heck to keep some spring in a blade without loosing too much hardness. And you have to watch how hot it gets and how it sparks when you hit it, to make sure you haven't ruined the piece. And you have to pause and fish out the clinkers around it. I love forging. But I still think I'm a rank amateur.
Mr Mad Scientist, I agree. I've done a good bit of beating on and anvil over the past 30 years but never approached the idea of making spring steel. I did bend up a piece of stainless, but never mounted it because as tough as it it to work and machine it will not hold it's shape. Mounted my spring clip over the weekend and it's in the ballpark, but a good jolt will drop the stand out. I have a safety pin idea, but would like to get it to work without one. Picture soon to follow. Thanks for the comment. Dan
harry76
Well-Known Member
I was wondering when i made my Stainless steel rear fender stand clip whether it would hold its shape or not. Im about to mount it today and then i came across these comments. Now im a little more worried then i was, oh well, i guess ill just see how long it lasts. Im interested to see what you guys come up with
Harry76, Didn't mean to worry you, but I would watch it closely. Stainless is real tough stuff but not necessarily "springy". Most of the stainless I work with is 303-304. Some 316, I think it is required by certain manufacturers for their production work. I think my attempt was 303 and it definitely doesn't spring back at all, so that is why I am trying with an actual spring doing the work as in MrB's clip. I think the Triumph clip might be the easiest from the looks of it, but I'm going to play with what I'm doing to see if it will work. Let us know how it goes for you. Dan
Here are few pictures of the stand clip I'm working at. Bought it at the hardware store for about $3. Actually I bought two, took them apart did some cutting and bending and made a "new" one. Welded a mounting plate to the back, drilled two holes in it and the fender and bolted it on with 8-32 bolts and nuts. It's been time consuming because it has to be mounted then tried out, then taken off an adjusted with spacers or bending the piece. I am able to do it by unbolting the fender struts and not taking the fender completely off each time, but it's hard to get at and my old arthritic hands don't do so well. I'm going to stay at it over the next week or so and if I get it right and there is interest, I will go get the parts and do a Silverbear tutorial at some point with photos and descriptions. It might not be until the master photo/journalist returns here for the winter, but if someone wants to see it done I'll gladly do it in return for all I have learned from this forum over the past couple years. Dan
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chainmaker
Well-Known Member
Tinsmith, Thanks for this thread, it will help me out alot. i just bought a Worksman frame and I start welding classes this week.
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Hey Dan,
Nice work on the drop stand clip. I'll be interest in seeing close up pictures so I better understand what you've done.
And here I thought your keyed drop stand catch was the cat's meow. I do recall a couple of times when we were riding last year that the drop stand came loose when we crossed rail road tracks. But it seems to me you modified it and cleared that problem. Or was it still a problem? Anyway, it seems to me you have come up with two nice solutions.
One of these days I'll take a picture of the original drop stand and spring steel catch on my 1934 Elgin which is kind of a pain to use and not all that secure either. I think your solutions are better.
SB
Nice work on the drop stand clip. I'll be interest in seeing close up pictures so I better understand what you've done.
And here I thought your keyed drop stand catch was the cat's meow. I do recall a couple of times when we were riding last year that the drop stand came loose when we crossed rail road tracks. But it seems to me you modified it and cleared that problem. Or was it still a problem? Anyway, it seems to me you have come up with two nice solutions.
One of these days I'll take a picture of the original drop stand and spring steel catch on my 1934 Elgin which is kind of a pain to use and not all that secure either. I think your solutions are better.
SB
SB, That spring clip was what came loose on the tracks. (old thread) Still have the keyed latch with the leather strap. Probably will never change that cause it seems fool-proof.
Seems to me you posted some pics of it somewhere on the forum but I'll be darned if I know where.
Dan
Seems to me you posted some pics of it somewhere on the forum but I'll be darned if I know where.
Dan
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=34874
That explains it. Here it is. I was thinking I liked this one better, but didn't want to say anything against the spring catch if you thought it was better. The leather strap version is really good looking!
SB.
That explains it. Here it is. I was thinking I liked this one better, but didn't want to say anything against the spring catch if you thought it was better. The leather strap version is really good looking!
SB.