Villiers beach cruiser

[harry76]

I dont mind at all if this thread takes a detour. Im learning as well. As for fixing the 20" rim i just planned on making stainless steel (get it free from work and we have a guillo and bender so knocking up these brackets wouldnt be hard. I did a quick drawing because its easier, and im no artist so no wisecracks LOL.

Ive seen similar setups on early motorbikes so it must be strong enough, and i would presume stronger then fixing it to the spokes. I would need about 9 or so brackets and obviously would need a countersunk bolt/screw so not to get a flat or damage the belt. On the setups i seen it looked like 2 bolts per bracket (1 bolt on sheave, 1 bolt on rim). But that doesnt seem it would be strong enough as id imagine they would wanna twist under torque. Any help here would be appreciated.

 

[Mike B]

I like the brackets.

 

[harry76]

Yeah i prefer the bracket idea. Im thinking you can keep correct tension on spokes while getting the correct offset of the 20"rim (are they called sheaves).I think Silverbear asked me about the weight of the Villiers. Well i just went and got batteries for my electric bathroom scales. I did it properly by first taking my weight, then a total weight of me holding the engine then subtracting my weight. And as ive collected a number of engines in the past 6months i can give a little comparison. So here goes......
98cc Villiers (the one fitted on bike) 9.2kg (20.28lbs)
98cc Villiers (the one out of the mower) 10.5kg (23.14 lbs)
Briggs and Stratton 3hp (no carb or inlet manifold) 7.6kg (16.75 lbs)
Victa 160cc (no carb or inlet manifold) 7.7kg (16.97 lbs)
50cc Grubee 4kg (8.81 lbs)
And as my 66cc is in my bike i couldnt get a comparison at this stage but im interested to see next time im working on it. Hope this helps

 

[silverbear]

G'day mate,
(I'm learning Aussie.) I'm with Mike. I also like the bent brackets. Stainless can be quite stiff, I am told. What gauge do you think? Your "guillo and bender" would be our sheer and brake, I believe... something to make clean cuts and then something else to make tight and accurate bends. Yes, simple enough with the right tools. I would suppose that the resistance to twist under torque would depend on gauge and how many. Nine sounds right. Bolts would need to be like a spoke nipple in being flat and not rubbing and damaging the belt. The other thing I was thinking about the torque is that I suspect there is a bit of belt slip possible where with gear and chain arrangements that is not the case. Twisting the brackets might not be the problem one would imagine.
Others have solved this in the past, so we need to see what the pioneers of motor bicycling did. And it is nice to know that if it is too complicated for me, I can order a Whizzer sheave. I always have more time than money, however, so am reluctant to hand over my pitiful social security funds. Besides, making something out of nothing is great fun, akin to skipping school as a boy.
So, a little over 20 pounds for your engine. Not so bad. Is that including the gas tank and muffler? i don't know about you, but I have no plans for the pedals other than as foot rests and a way to be legal. Somewhat legal. Legal looking.
I was just about to throw away a couple of rims from moped wheels I robbed the hubs from in building new 26" rims for my project bike. I think now I'll hang on to them as possible sheaves. Quite stout. My wheels have 12 gauge spokes and drum brakes front and rear. Rims are 50's Schwinn. I wonder what the optimum diameter of a sheave should be. Anyone know? What diameter are Whizzer sheaves?
SB

 

[harry76]

Your Australian is outstanding!!!! LOL. The bolts will be countersunk screws so not to damage belt or tube. And i think people glue leather or rubber on the sheave anyway for extra traction.
And yes guillo and bender is just as you said.
And all engine weights were without fuel tank or mufflers. Just the engine.

 

[msrfan]

What diameter are Whizzer sheaves?
SB
Hey SB. Whizzer pulleys are 15" or so.

 

[harry76]

Mrsfan, ive seen you have a lot of experience with these belt drives setups. Do you think attaching brackets from rim to sheave will be sufficient? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also if you are familiar with this bracket setup, is 1 bolt per bracket (as ive seen) enough?

 

[silverbear]

What diameter are Whizzer sheaves?
SB
Hey SB. Whizzer pulleys are 15" or so.

Thank you. The moped rims I have are 16", so they might work for sheaves. Are you familiar with these Villiers engines?
SB

 

[msrfan]

Hey Harry. I've used v belts on my bikes. Always wanted to use a flat leather belt for a vintage look. The 9 brackets holding the 20" wheel should be more than sufficient. I would definitely use 2 bolts per bracket. 26" wheels have at least 1 1/2" between spokes. I think brackets allowing 2 bolts each on 1" centers would be adequate. That way no twisting and plenty of strength. You weaken the rim if you countersink for flush head bolts. I would use dome head philips screws. Small bolts are plenty strong for this application. You might even consider Pop Rivets. They don't come loose and are available in many sizes and configurations. In any case, you're on the right track. Use heavy enough guage metal and try not to have them reach out too far. silverbear always has some great ideas.

 

[msrfan]

Thank you. The moped rims I have are 16", so they might work for sheaves. Are you familiar with these Villiers engines?
SB
__________________
16" would be a good size as you can always adjust your ratios with the other pulleys. I'm not familiar with Villiers engines. I just started looking at them because of this thread. They look awsome. Reminds me of the upright Maytag motors.

 

[harry76]

Thanks Msrfan, a 20" inch sheave should work shouldnt it. Wont it just lower the gearing? Requiring a slightly larger front pulley?
Also this is my first DIY build, so im learning as i go, but any help on the gearing would be greatly appreciated. I entered info into the gear calculator and i worked out with a 20 inch sheave that about a 70mm front pulley will get about 32mph. I have no idea whether that on the money, or way off. Maybe its trial and error????
If i know what size front pulley i can try and find one after easter then look at mounting the rear sheave.

 

[harry76]

Im willing to pedal a little off the start. And im not trying to break the sound barrier. If possible id like it to cruise with traffic at 60kph (37mph) and not be reving its head off like my 66cc Kroon

 

[harry76]

And i really should share the story of the flat front tyre in the pictures. As it may act as a warning to others.
I bought 2 sets of tyres off EBay (White balloon tires, Antique bicycle 26x2.125, $39pair). The flat tyre was originally the rear tyre on my 66cc Kroon build. And i now have concerns about using them on MB builds. Maybe i was just unlucky? You decide...
I was riding my 66cc Kroon at top speed when THUMP BANG. Oh crap! I managed to come to a stop, looked down and noticed a flat tyre. No biggie. I pushed it home thinking the tube that was supplied with the tyre blew. So i went and purchased a mountain bike downhill tube (these things are thick and damn heavy, i run them on all my mountainbikes, even my cross country. I HATE GETTING FLATS) and went home to fit it. I removed the tyre and got quite a shock. Inside the tyre was a splinter of wood from what looked like a pallet. Now this splinter was around 6 inches long and about 2 inches thick (i really should have taken a pic of it) and punched a neat hole in the tyre.
Now ive ridden many disciplines in mountain biking and never ever seen anything like this..... My first point is i should have been paying closer attention to what i was running over....... My second point is i doubt a quality tyre like a Fat Frank would have failed the same way.
So if you are planning to buy these tyres for a MB build be warned......

 

[silverbear]

I've also had two blowouts this winter, both with vintage tires which looked great... like new. But they weren't new. As with cars, the tires age just sitting there even filled with air. No doubt they would have been fine for an old pedal cruiser creeping along at pedaling speeds, but not for a motorbike. Both times it was the rear tire which makes for a royal pain to switch out. No more old tires for me, cheap as I am. I have Fat Franks on one bike back home and two have new cream colored Electras purchased reasonably from Amazon. And I think from now on I'll use the super thick tubes for the rear wheels. I do not like flats, either, especially when two chains are involved.
Regarding your sheave. It occurred to me that your 20" one may be a bicycle wheel using a 20" tire. If the tire is 20". then the rim (pulley size) would be more like 16". At least here in the states bicycle wheels are measured including the tire. Moped wheels are described by rim diameter so that a 16" moped wheel is very close in size to the rim of a 20" bicycle wheel. Might be worth measuring to be sure for your calculations.
SB

 

[harry76]

Im glad you reminded me of that..... ive had many mountainbikes, and all 26" tyres fit 26'rims. I thought thats the way it was, until about a year ago when i became interested in restoring vintage bicycles. And saw first hand how many different 26" tyre/wheel combos.
So i measured the 20" rim i have and came up with 445mm (17.5") where the belt would sit. Thanks again for pointing that out.
And your tyres that blew were old and perhaps the rubber was perishing, but mine were BRAND NEW tyres. Obviously only cheap rubber compound

 

[msrfan]

Good call on the rim sizes, silverbear. That makes his rim closer to a Whizzer size than we first thought.

 

[harry76]

I might try and go to my brothers or a friends over the Easter break to weld in the engine mounts.
In Australia we have a 5 day Easter weekend with Anzac day (I dont as i work shift work) so the shops wont be open until Wednesday, then ill go and try to find a front pulley. Then i will know the exact offset for the rear sheave.....then i will know the offset of the sheave. Then i can make the brackets..... And ill also need to get some steel to make this tank. Then it should start coming together

 

[fasteddy]

Got an email from the person selling the non whizzer, whizzer parts in Hong Kong.
It will be $24.50 Canadian to send the rim to where I live in Canada. I'm two blocks from the Pacific Ocean so I'm sure it is cheaper than on the other end of the country.

While Harry has been talking about the bike wheels and clips I've been thinking more about that being the way to go. Looks original and a lot more fun.
Given the concern about the belt slipping I was wondering if a coating of truck bed liner on the inside of the rim would help.
Brushed or sprayed it would close up the width of the rim a little so the belt would track a straighter line and have grip on all sides. The rivets or bolt heads would at least be covered and level on the drive pulley.

My thoughts on a sunny spring day anyway.

Steve.

 

[harry76]

Yeah some sort of painted on coating could be a good idea id imagine. I planned on gluing (not sure it would hold for very long) rubber or leather down but a painted on coating would be much easier, more durable and more attravtive to the eye. Thanks for the idea

 

[fasteddy]

Harry if you are going that route I'd glue an inflated inner tube into the rim and when it dried I'd cut the sides even with the rim and that would save you a lot of work and give you a neat job. Maybe leaving a bit of the cut off air valve sticking out would help with preventing the tube turning on the rim.
A heavy tube would be a bonus for longevity.

Steve.