Villiers beach cruiser

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harry76

harry76

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2011
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Brisbane, Australia
I havent been able to find much info on these motors yet. But if i go by the description in this video he claims it produces 1hp @ 2700rpm
YouTube - How to start & stop the Villiers Midget Engine
1hp doesnt sound like much. Hope its alright. I have seen the same motor power early small motorbikes so it must be ok, i hope! My next question is if i can do a direct drive like i want, and i use a 20 inch rear rim (450mm) and if it is 2700rpm a 70mm front pulley would give me 32.5mph. Does that sound about the right front pulley or a different size to get more or less MPH? Or is it just trial and error?
 
Mike B

Mike B

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Mar 23, 2011
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1 HP at 2700 is a lot of torque.

My 40 cc Keyang scooter engine is 1 HP at 5000 and 2 HP at 9000.

Torque is more important than speed.

If you don't have enough speed, then you just go slower. If you don't have enough torque, you don't go at all.
 
F

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Harry76, I just wanted to thank you for reawakening my long dormant interest in Villiers motors.
I lived in the Eastern part of Canada in Toronto, Ontario and as a young man had more than my share of James, Francis Barnett and one DOT scrambler.

These as you know were all powered with the marvelous Villiers engines. Anywhere from 100 to 200cc.
I would have to say other than the points and coil breaking down they were about impossible to stop.

I was bidding on the same Atco Villiers engine that you are using at the time you first posted and I won it. The price in the end was $150 U.S. Strangely enough the motor was about three hour or so drive from Silverbears house.

Silverbear and I are going to finish his canoe side car that we started last summer and then start another build and the Atco Villiers motors will be perfect for the look that we want to achieve and supply the power we need.

Now what started me writing this is that you don't need to worry about a 100cc Villiers motor being good enough. The bikes I had with a motor that size were more than strong enough.
The old joke for us was, How fast do you want to be going when you fall off?

The man who sold the motor to me turned our to be a well known motorbike and motored wheel restorer in the U.S.
I asked his advice on what to do to transfer the power from the motor to the rear wheel and he provided me with a link to a site in China that will supply Whizzer parts.
The Whizzer has a 139cc motor I think so the jack shaft that they used should be about right for us.

I'll email the man and ask if I can post his information that he sent me so you can see the restorations he did.
He restored a Villiers motor wheel as well as a host of motored bikes.

I'll look up the Whizzer parts site and post it.

Steve.
 
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silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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northeastern Minnesota
Harry,
I would think, too, that the stock exhaust for the lawn mower application of the engine is fairly restrictive. With an expansion exhaust pipe it should help to really wake one of these up. A guy in England told Fasteddy today that the 98cc midget weighs around 40 lbs. Does that sound right to you? Would you sometime please measure the engine... height, width, front to back length? I'd like to know and do some figuring on how much frame modification it will take on a Worksman NB. Fasteddy can translate the metric to inches for me. I don't speak metric.
SB
 
harry76

harry76

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Apr 16, 2011
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Thanks guys for the help. By the sounds of it these motors are a good choice? They definitely look the part. And i see many of these motors on EBay Australia, sometimes VERY cheap. I think i may need to keep an eye out and buy many many more when they come up. I see many, still in a complete reel/cylinder mowers. Obviously a lot more of these mowers/engines ended up in Oz rather then the USA. I saw the canoe sidecar project, very very cool! And will be way cooler with one of these. They sound so much better then a chinese engine and as you said open up the exhaust and it may sound even better, and go better......... As for the engine stats: i need to get new batteries for my bathroom scale and ill weigh the engine for you. Now ill give you a roughly eyed measurements. Do not build a frame according to thes measurements LOL. OK the height of the motor from the bottom of engine block to top of sparkplug is 280mm (11 inches), and is 310mm (12.2 inches) from bottom of flywheel to top of sparkplug. The flywheel is 160mm (6.3 inches) in diameter. I measured the length from the carby to the end of the exhaust bolts and was 250mm (9.8 inches). This length measurement could be shortened if needed: the inlet manifold could be made to bend back behind the motor. And i measured to the end of the exhaust bolts allowing for and exhaust, and i was probably being generous (as the bolts are longer then what the exhaust would be). Now the width is a tricky one. Mine has a freewheel kickstart gear (i think)on the outside of the flywheel. And a rope start on opposite side. At present the motor is 250 mm (9.8 inches) wide. I plan to do away with that gear on flywheel and mount a pulley where the ropestart is. So i could probably get it down to 200mm (7.8 inches) wide. Hope that made sesnse. If not dont hesitate to ask.
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
YouTube - Atco 14 Video
I think if I had one of these I wouldn't mind mowing the lawn. If I had a lawn. There's a link at the end of this video for a site where you can get engine help. I wonder what the oil to gas mix was on these. I suppose the oil was something like a straight 30 weight. Wonder how Opti 2 would do with it. With an old one like this it might be best to just use a good quality 2 stroke oil. What a cool little motor.
SB
 
harry76

harry76

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Apr 16, 2011
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When i ran my engine on stationary stand i just ran quality 2 stroke oil and mixed a little rich til i find correct ratio. I did look on the chat forum but that was some time ago and have forgotten and need to reinvestigate.
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Thank you for the measurements, Harry. In a couple of weeks I'll be home in Minnesota and can do some measuring of the frame. Not long after I'll have Fasteddy's engine which is getting shipped to my place. Then I can get an even better idea of how much the frame will need to be modified. Like you, I'm limited by not being a welder, but I have an Indian friend who is pretty reasonable and can make about anything. I think you are wise in salvaging these engines as you can.
SB
 
harry76

harry76

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Apr 16, 2011
2,557
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Brisbane, Australia
That kickstart is cool. I have the kickstart freewheel gear on the motor. But no kickstrater to fit. I have a kickstarter with my reel mower that fits the other Villiers motor. That kickstarter has more teeth and designed to engage a bigger sprocket..... I would maybe try and make this kickstart but i dont like the thought of that sprocket on the flywheel spinning so close to my precious limbs. I did see a kickstart Briggs and Stratton on this site and it was sooooo cool.
 
harry76

harry76

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2011
2,557
47
48
Brisbane, Australia
I can weld (well mig anyway) but dont have a welder. I really need to get that sorted. It really slows down my progress. Cant wait to see your pics and progress and hopefully help and get ideas off each other. I think i may just start bidding on all cheap engines that come up.
 
F

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Oil mix is 16 to 1.

I saw a motorcycle site where they talked briefly about putting tuned pipes on a Villiers motor and the general opinion was that it wasn't worth it since the motor would need a lot of work to make any difference and it wasn't worth it since there were newer motors that lent themselves better to the work and cost.

Steve.
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Harry,
There has to be a way to use a kick start without inflicting harm to body parts... Too cool not to find a way to use it. I saw an illustration of the motor and it shows a decompression deal on it, so I would guess that it could be pedaled a bit and then give it compression and get it started that way. When one of us gets a hold of a manual it will help.
Steve,
I would guess the 16 to 1 would be for straight 30 weight oil, don't you think? I don't understand why a tuned pipe would not help give more power to that engine. Maybe they were talking about a bigger engine or maybe they're comparing to something new and with greater racing potential, like a Morini. I'm no more interested in top speed than you are, but having power is good. As Mike pointed out, this engine sounds like it has a lot of torque. I saw somewhere in my internet wanderings that the 98cc midget was rated at 3 bhp. Is British horse power different than plain old horse power? If they used these motors on light motorcycles they must have had pretty good power.
Yes, I remember the Colson Crippler. The link is interesting and the three wheelers pictured have the good, the bad and the ugly all represented. A few are pretty cool. Didn't know such things existed and interesting that some were powered with Villiars engines. I'd rather have an Indian tri-car though.
Harry, sorry if we're taking your thread someplace else. Yes, lets share what we learn about these motors and what we come up with in drive train components and how-to.
You asked about pulley size earlier and I don't have any idea.
Steve, the Whizzer sheeve hardware isn't too bad at $30.00, but as I recall someone said the shipping was high. Also, as I recall somebody said the hardware had to be modified a little to fit Worksman wheels as the spokes were too thick. We need to ask the Whizzer boys. Isn't there some home made version of this? I like home made. I believe Harry said something about using a 20" wheel. But how do you attach it to the spokes? I'm gonna see what Harry does...
SB
SB
SB
 
F

fasteddy

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2009
7,476
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British Columbia Canada
Harry,
My thought is that if the kick start catches you, you will be a foot shorter but only on one side.
If you look at the video of the man starting it, his foot was well out of harms way.

Silverbear,
just mentioning what I read about exhaust. Went back and looked again and Go kart racers are the 8+ horse power motors into 30 horse power monsters. They have a book about it.

Trying to remember back 50 years ago but I don't think that we used anything other than 30 weight oil. It was 65 or 75 cents a quart and I don't remember we used anything else do to the expense.
As for the Whizzer parts I ask tomorrow how much to ship the sheaves and if it high we are better of to get ahold of Quenton.

Steve.
 
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