Velocars and other interesting vehicles.
- Thread starter Intrepid Wheelwoman
- Start date
Sorry you missed out on the Hondas, Allen. There will be more.
I've been thinking about that Sociable you posted, Zoran. I did some measuring on my leftover portion of aluminum canoe and it is 36" at it's widest and is 8'6" long. From fender tip to fender tip the Elgin is 6' 4" long. So the length is about right and I was thinking there is enough room in the canoe body for tandem seating, so the body could be drawn in somewhat, say to 24" at the widest (an average kitchen chair is 18"). I wonder about the positioning of the third wheel, whether it should be all the way back to match the bike rear wheel or set ahead a bit to perhaps 1/3 the distance between front and back wheels. Set forward a bit I would think. Forward of the windshield and cockpit the canoe would be closed in like the hood area on an automobile with a hatch opening for cargo. With a new stern made of plywood ( and then covered with a skin of aluminum) there would be a good bit of structural integrity so that the the sociable body could be fairly light weight. Try to keep the weight down on the frame work underneath and I think that with lower gearing and the three speed hub it should be able to have a top speed of perhaps 30 mph with a more normal cruising speed in the 15 to 20 mph range.
No pedaling so the crank arms could be removed. A motorcycle license would be required then. Who knows what can of worms that opens up. I would not want this for highway use... just secondary roads and in town (small town). On the other hand if I left the pedals in place and the seat then technically it would be a weird moped attachment with the alternative seat in the canoe. I could get away with that until I couldn't, right? It isn't illegal until the local police say so. Sometimes gray areas are nice. It would help perhaps if it was truly detachable... even leaving the seat and handlebars on the bike with optional controls to brakes, clutch and throttle. Disconnect one set and connect the others. Still a moped then , right officer? Just has a slight modification for me disability... it's me bum old legs it is.
It's fun to think about anyway. Of course first things first. Get it finished up as a two wheeler and see how it is... what kind of power the engine and gears provide and then go from there to a sociable body another summer perhaps. So I will hang on to my canoe remnants and set aside bits and pieces which might be needed... steering wheel and such. Fun stuff...
Another question I have is would this be considered a kind of sidecar? Or is it a trike? What I'm getting down to is which side of the motorbike would be open and which side connected to the sociable body? If it is considered a sidecar then the sociable would go on the right side here in the states.
SB
I've been thinking about that Sociable you posted, Zoran. I did some measuring on my leftover portion of aluminum canoe and it is 36" at it's widest and is 8'6" long. From fender tip to fender tip the Elgin is 6' 4" long. So the length is about right and I was thinking there is enough room in the canoe body for tandem seating, so the body could be drawn in somewhat, say to 24" at the widest (an average kitchen chair is 18"). I wonder about the positioning of the third wheel, whether it should be all the way back to match the bike rear wheel or set ahead a bit to perhaps 1/3 the distance between front and back wheels. Set forward a bit I would think. Forward of the windshield and cockpit the canoe would be closed in like the hood area on an automobile with a hatch opening for cargo. With a new stern made of plywood ( and then covered with a skin of aluminum) there would be a good bit of structural integrity so that the the sociable body could be fairly light weight. Try to keep the weight down on the frame work underneath and I think that with lower gearing and the three speed hub it should be able to have a top speed of perhaps 30 mph with a more normal cruising speed in the 15 to 20 mph range.
No pedaling so the crank arms could be removed. A motorcycle license would be required then. Who knows what can of worms that opens up. I would not want this for highway use... just secondary roads and in town (small town). On the other hand if I left the pedals in place and the seat then technically it would be a weird moped attachment with the alternative seat in the canoe. I could get away with that until I couldn't, right? It isn't illegal until the local police say so. Sometimes gray areas are nice. It would help perhaps if it was truly detachable... even leaving the seat and handlebars on the bike with optional controls to brakes, clutch and throttle. Disconnect one set and connect the others. Still a moped then , right officer? Just has a slight modification for me disability... it's me bum old legs it is.
It's fun to think about anyway. Of course first things first. Get it finished up as a two wheeler and see how it is... what kind of power the engine and gears provide and then go from there to a sociable body another summer perhaps. So I will hang on to my canoe remnants and set aside bits and pieces which might be needed... steering wheel and such. Fun stuff...
Another question I have is would this be considered a kind of sidecar? Or is it a trike? What I'm getting down to is which side of the motorbike would be open and which side connected to the sociable body? If it is considered a sidecar then the sociable would go on the right side here in the states.
SB
For stability/steering compromise, I think you'd need a conventional sidecar wheel set up. The lower cg will help as well.
Will the pointy bit be at the front? It might help to give the front wheel clearance to turn.
With what you have, I'd assume the simplest route is expose the cycle parts, and treat the canoe as a sidecar type body containing the controls.
Will the pointy bit be at the front? It might help to give the front wheel clearance to turn.
With what you have, I'd assume the simplest route is expose the cycle parts, and treat the canoe as a sidecar type body containing the controls.
Yes, pointy end up front and yes again, canoe as a sidecar type body containing the seating and controls. Sidecar wheel about 1/3 of the way between front and rear bike wheel, does that sound about right? Rear of the sociable body would be like a square stern canoe.
The rest of the donor canoe which became a conventional sidecar is pictured in my avatar. I paid twenty bucks for that wrecked canoe (two gashes mid-way) and the seller gave me a strange look when I said I wanted to make it into a sidecar for a motorbike. If I can get a sociable body out of it as well it will be one of my all time best buys.
SB
The rest of the donor canoe which became a conventional sidecar is pictured in my avatar. I paid twenty bucks for that wrecked canoe (two gashes mid-way) and the seller gave me a strange look when I said I wanted to make it into a sidecar for a motorbike. If I can get a sociable body out of it as well it will be one of my all time best buys.
SB
25% is about what I did my sidecar at. No, I don't have any videos, but will by next summer. I recently bought a used gopro which I have yet to learn to use and then edit, but it will come. I also have not run that Villiers engine yet as the carburetor leaked and then leaked some more after I made a new gasket for it... so bought the real deal from Britain at an extravagant price and now have it ready to install. Won't know until spring/summer when it goes back outside if the gas leak is taken care of. No gas in it now and for that matter no gas tank either until the new copper one is made.
SB
SB
Ahhh, Christmas comes in November this year... You must have been a very good boy, indeed!
SB
SB
I have extremely good friends who want to see what falls from the pyrotechnic recesses of my mind.
If the engine is small, say Viliers Mk10/12 sidevalve, that will go into the Gentleman's Proper Bicycle and permit the creation of a Cree Autocycle for the Touring gentleman. Mk40 and we look for a canal boat owner needing a spare.
In the meantime, the Cooper & Ludwig Workshops will continue with the manufacture of the Mk1 prototypes.
If the engine is small, say Viliers Mk10/12 sidevalve, that will go into the Gentleman's Proper Bicycle and permit the creation of a Cree Autocycle for the Touring gentleman. Mk40 and we look for a canal boat owner needing a spare.
In the meantime, the Cooper & Ludwig Workshops will continue with the manufacture of the Mk1 prototypes.
Hello there,
I never drive any kind of motorcycle with side-car, but know that some of my friends and relatives hate them, after had a lot of experience with solo motorcycles. But, for us that shouldn't be problem? I suppose that both of you are near solution for side-wheel position! In any case, driver (and passenger) should seat as much as possible to the rear of side-car for better stability, especially at corners.
In Serbia, as in the most of Europe, such vehicle should be attested and registered as motorcycle with side-car, no need to put it in any other category of three-wheelers (motorcycle or auto). Of course, I would cheat a little, registered it as ordinary motorcycle with side-car, then modified it to be controlled from side-car, at the first time keeping controls on motorcycle, and pedals if necessary. For sure - not any steering wheel, just motorcycle-type hanldbars!
... After modification, if anybody ask “WTF is that?”, I would answer that it is small modification for seniors and disabled persons. Good to be old, sometime: people should trust you, or at least believe that you didn't know what are you doing, but you are good and not too much dangerous person? Probably the worst thing should be that you have to jump on motorcycle again! (for some time)
P.S.: Ludwig, is there a tread for your mentioned projects? Or web-site, or blog?
It seems that we have consensus here: the best is if "Sociable combination" is made simply as motorcycle and side-car combination, with driver (and passenger, maybe?) seating in side-car with new commands. I never drive any kind of motorcycle with side-car, but know that some of my friends and relatives hate them, after had a lot of experience with solo motorcycles. But, for us that shouldn't be problem? I suppose that both of you are near solution for side-wheel position! In any case, driver (and passenger) should seat as much as possible to the rear of side-car for better stability, especially at corners.
In Serbia, as in the most of Europe, such vehicle should be attested and registered as motorcycle with side-car, no need to put it in any other category of three-wheelers (motorcycle or auto). Of course, I would cheat a little, registered it as ordinary motorcycle with side-car, then modified it to be controlled from side-car, at the first time keeping controls on motorcycle, and pedals if necessary. For sure - not any steering wheel, just motorcycle-type hanldbars!
... After modification, if anybody ask “WTF is that?”, I would answer that it is small modification for seniors and disabled persons. Good to be old, sometime: people should trust you, or at least believe that you didn't know what are you doing, but you are good and not too much dangerous person? Probably the worst thing should be that you have to jump on motorcycle again! (for some time)
P.S.: Ludwig, is there a tread for your mentioned projects? Or web-site, or blog?
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Either way, it is still Christmas in November. Might be you'll find a nice canal boat with your name on it for your birthday. Sometimes one nice thing leads to another.
SB
SB
Zoran,
I see that we are on the same page with both the sidecar to bike arrangement and what to say to the confused officer. Ha!
Thank you for the sidecar illustrations.
I have only one real experience with sidecars and that is with my Panther and canoe setup. If is night and day difference between with and without a sidecar. On two wheels you get so used to most of the steering being done by leaning into curves. On three wheels there's little point in trying to lean... maybe with racers, perhaps (but that would be leaning in the other direction to offer counter weight). My first time riding mine I very nearly ran off the driveway into a tree, it not really occurring to me that I need to turn the handlebars. There was also a sensation of the rig wanting to tip over or so it seemed... it just felt weird until I gave it some time and got used to it. There were pluses to help cancel out the negatives. Seeing my friend Aaniimoosh The Wonder Dog sitting next to me and wearing her doggles while staring intently at the road ahead... pretty cool. And if we went fast enough her ears would lift in the wind like little wings, helping us to go faster of course. Sometimes she smiles when excited and that brings a lot of smiling for me, so we must look like a couple of happy, nutty characters riding along catching bugs in our teeth. We should all be so happy. I have every confidence that the sociable would be strangeness itself, but of a nice kind. A nice, slow and safe kind, putt putting along.
SB
I see that we are on the same page with both the sidecar to bike arrangement and what to say to the confused officer. Ha!
Thank you for the sidecar illustrations.
I have only one real experience with sidecars and that is with my Panther and canoe setup. If is night and day difference between with and without a sidecar. On two wheels you get so used to most of the steering being done by leaning into curves. On three wheels there's little point in trying to lean... maybe with racers, perhaps (but that would be leaning in the other direction to offer counter weight). My first time riding mine I very nearly ran off the driveway into a tree, it not really occurring to me that I need to turn the handlebars. There was also a sensation of the rig wanting to tip over or so it seemed... it just felt weird until I gave it some time and got used to it. There were pluses to help cancel out the negatives. Seeing my friend Aaniimoosh The Wonder Dog sitting next to me and wearing her doggles while staring intently at the road ahead... pretty cool. And if we went fast enough her ears would lift in the wind like little wings, helping us to go faster of course. Sometimes she smiles when excited and that brings a lot of smiling for me, so we must look like a couple of happy, nutty characters riding along catching bugs in our teeth. We should all be so happy. I have every confidence that the sociable would be strangeness itself, but of a nice kind. A nice, slow and safe kind, putt putting along.
SB
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Hello SB,
My cousin (such relatives we called brothers) bought BMW 500 with side-car, old but in excellent condition (that was decades ago, and he is dead now), and took it home - the first experience with side-car after many kilometers with JAWA solo. He lived in Vojvodina, quite flat agricultural county of Serbia, where the roads are straight for a lot, and then suddenly have corners at 90°. That was a relic of old roads between fields. So, on one of the first corners, he just go straight, no mater how he leaned his body, but didn't turn handlebars! So, he made nice 15 meters long street in corn-field. Good, that there wasn't any trench or canal on the edge of the road! Habits, even good, are difficult to be changed. At home, he removed side-car and sold it to one older rider (probably younger than we are now)...
Nice to have dog for passenger, saw a lot of them on bicycles and motorcycles, here in Bern! I had German hunting terrier, but he was wild and for sure would jump-out and run-away!
Pity that I gave big, old men bicycle to the friend: could build something as Ludwig made! Or many classic-looking motor-bicycles here... But, I would need place for two – so, velocar is more practical.
My cousin (such relatives we called brothers) bought BMW 500 with side-car, old but in excellent condition (that was decades ago, and he is dead now), and took it home - the first experience with side-car after many kilometers with JAWA solo. He lived in Vojvodina, quite flat agricultural county of Serbia, where the roads are straight for a lot, and then suddenly have corners at 90°. That was a relic of old roads between fields. So, on one of the first corners, he just go straight, no mater how he leaned his body, but didn't turn handlebars! So, he made nice 15 meters long street in corn-field. Good, that there wasn't any trench or canal on the edge of the road! Habits, even good, are difficult to be changed. At home, he removed side-car and sold it to one older rider (probably younger than we are now)...
Nice to have dog for passenger, saw a lot of them on bicycles and motorcycles, here in Bern! I had German hunting terrier, but he was wild and for sure would jump-out and run-away!
Pity that I gave big, old men bicycle to the friend: could build something as Ludwig made! Or many classic-looking motor-bicycles here... But, I would need place for two – so, velocar is more practical.
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Here's the thread, next Tuesday is set aside to carry on working on them. In early November, we're going over to Norfolk to pick up the old bike and look at this cultivator. I know it's far too much to hope for, but I've seen a picture of a really old one with a Villiers twin port engine on it. The most probable engine will be a 3.5hp B&S, but you never know.
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=56919
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=56919
Ludwig,
Good luck with your hunt for good antic engine. I would be happy with B&S 3.5 hp, too - especially if it is side-valve. Like them just for style...
SB,
You mentioned average speeds around 20 mph? Here is Club with that name. I planed similar speed for my would-be motorised velocar or quadricycle. I think that it is quite good for cruising across Bern and around. Here we have a lot of bicycle paths that I could use and drivers are quite tolerant toward bicycles, even on ordinary streets and roads. Half of the Bern had parts of town with speed restriction up to 30 km/hour, which could be enough for us. So – we would not be problem for automobilistes, even when they are faster - they would tolerate us.
For a change, a few photos/sketches of Russian senior's quadricycle. It has front-wheel drive and strange front-wheel steering... Designer brought it to show on top of his auto.
Good luck with your hunt for good antic engine. I would be happy with B&S 3.5 hp, too - especially if it is side-valve. Like them just for style...
SB,
You mentioned average speeds around 20 mph? Here is Club with that name. I planed similar speed for my would-be motorised velocar or quadricycle. I think that it is quite good for cruising across Bern and around. Here we have a lot of bicycle paths that I could use and drivers are quite tolerant toward bicycles, even on ordinary streets and roads. Half of the Bern had parts of town with speed restriction up to 30 km/hour, which could be enough for us. So – we would not be problem for automobilistes, even when they are faster - they would tolerate us.
For a change, a few photos/sketches of Russian senior's quadricycle. It has front-wheel drive and strange front-wheel steering... Designer brought it to show on top of his auto.
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Fascinating, - he's using the pedal crankshaft as a tierod and it has a flexible drive joint at each end to allow the vehicle to steer.
Hello Annie,
When the first time I saw it on video, it looks to me quite strange and maybe rude built. They hardly put it down and even more put it on top of a car, driving it slowly on ground. But, later I saw that it was done seriously, even a little too complicated. I am not sure how would steering works, with king-pin behind front wheels. Probably too heavy construction, and not so good for 4 persons on-board.
All the respect for senior designer and constructor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGRQTw9X1Mg
P.S.: Annie, how you managed to take photos from videos? I used complicated and slow way of Print-Scan function... In meantime took IrfanVief program that is good for many things, but do not know to take photos from videos using it, in spite that some people can to do that...
When the first time I saw it on video, it looks to me quite strange and maybe rude built. They hardly put it down and even more put it on top of a car, driving it slowly on ground. But, later I saw that it was done seriously, even a little too complicated. I am not sure how would steering works, with king-pin behind front wheels. Probably too heavy construction, and not so good for 4 persons on-board.
All the respect for senior designer and constructor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGRQTw9X1Mg
P.S.: Annie, how you managed to take photos from videos? I used complicated and slow way of Print-Scan function... In meantime took IrfanVief program that is good for many things, but do not know to take photos from videos using it, in spite that some people can to do that...
Thanks for the video link Zoran 
It's a bit disappointing that we couldn't see more of the quad moving about as it's certainly unusual.
To capture still frames from videos Zoran, all I do is pause the video where I want to capture the image and press the 'PrtScr' button on the keyboard. Then I paste the image into IfranView and crop the unwanted parts of the screen capture away.
It's a bit disappointing that we couldn't see more of the quad moving about as it's certainly unusual.To capture still frames from videos Zoran, all I do is pause the video where I want to capture the image and press the 'PrtScr' button on the keyboard. Then I paste the image into IfranView and crop the unwanted parts of the screen capture away.
More Russian fun.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRV5rBnJClM
Edit: another link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7hOEFVOfk&list=UUWs8TKge16WuqkxJ-kPEXtA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRV5rBnJClM
Edit: another link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7hOEFVOfk&list=UUWs8TKge16WuqkxJ-kPEXtA
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