Velocars and other interesting vehicles.

[fasteddy]

I have over the years often looked at building a three wheeler and a canoe was the main choice for a body. If there is no aluminium canoes avaiable I would use a fiberglass one in a heartbeat. Even a new one if I had to since it would save a lot of work.

Snowmobile springs in a semi elliptic set up with trailing arms to hold the axle in place?

The radiator area could be formed out of a block of foam and fiberglassed to give it a swoopy look and painted to accent the car.

I think that it would be a great idea to have the state/city laws on hand because if a simple motorbike causes the police problems, a velocar should be good for at least three stops every time your out.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

I have over the years often looked at building a three wheeler and a acanoe was the main choice for a body. If there is no aluminium canoes avaiable I would use a fiberglass one in a heartbeat. Even a new one if I had to since it would save a lot of work.

Snowmobile springs in a semi elliptic set up with trailing arms to hold the axle in place?

The radiator area could be formed out of a block of foam and fiberglassed to give it a swoopy look and painted to accent the car.

I think that it would be a great idea to have the state/city laws on hand because if a simple motorbike causes the police problems a velocar should be good for at least three stops every time your out.

Steve.

 

[Ibedayank]

paint pedalpowered and the state statute for a assisted bicycle on the back...
most cops have NO clue about the laws they are paid to enforce so they just make them up and let the courts sort them out IF you decide to fight it.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

The wonderful blue velocar! Speaking Finnish might help, but not essential

Ovet auki!

http://web.me.com/pekkaketola/Sivusto/Blogi/Merkinn%C3%A4t/2009/6/13_Tienp%C3%A4%C3%A4ll%C3%A4.html

 

[fasteddy]

Intrepid Wheelwoman,
Thank you for posting the blue velocar. I'd looked all over and couldn't find it.
Hoping that the garage will be finished in a week and back in order and I can start on a velocar while I do the tricar. If I can't work on one I'll do the other.

Thinking it will have either quarter elliptical springs on the front or slipper springs with a couple of leaves removed, from a small trailer.
Not sure about tail lights yet but Silverbear used a driving light that he bought from Harbour Freight and then took the light bulb and socket out and made the hole larger and put the L.E.D.'s from a small flashlight/torch in place of the light bulb. This was for a bike he built but I think that two of them would give the 1920/1930's look to the velo.

Body will have the same style. Ibedayank suggested epoxy and cloth over a mahogany body the same as they do kayaks. I'll do another mahogany body but I did see what was suggested in using heat shrinkable dacron such as they use on planes and heat shrinkable mylar that they use on model air craft.
The mylar has a heat activated glue on one side and one chap used it on a boat that he had skinned shrinkable dacron. He applied it over the dacron.

The mylar has lots of colours and seams over it's self very well so the seams are hard to see.

So many builds, so little money.

Steve.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

I found it by looking up the velocar's name 'Ajatara' on Google which is Finnish for 'Devil of the wood'. Armed with the knowledge it was a vintage Finnish velocar I then searched using the keyword 'Kinneri' and there it was

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

It really is an amazing vehicle and the almost ridiculous slender nature of the chassis says plenty about the confidence the original builder had in his workmanship. I would imagine the bodyshell acts as a bracing member for the chassis and that long thin front axle provides a measure of suspension by flexing under load.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

These Finns are mad keen velomobile builders

https://picasaweb.google.com/103406304324495614798/AmphibiousVelomobile

 

[fasteddy]

Where Silverbear lives in Minnesota there is a very large Finnish population. Most are decended from people who came over in the late 1800's It reminded them of home and they gave land away so it was a large lure.

You see people walking around with "Welcome to Finnesota" T shirts on.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

Yes,
Many Finns settled in northeastern Minnesota as it was so much like home for them. I suppose most immigrants did that... looked for a place like back home and where other countrymen settled already. Known locally as "Finlanders" they were superb woodsman and were naturally drawn to the local Ojibwa (Chippewa) Indians, who of course were the ultimate woodsmen. Some inter-married and their descendants are sometimes referred to today as "Findians".
Thanks for posting the blue Velocar. Steve, your ideas for the body seem sound to me. I agree regarding the Harbor Freight headlights. When I saw photos of the Morgan 3 wheeler I thought of how perfect they would be. I intend to use them on what I think of now as an "Indian Cycelcar" which would utilize the iconic Indian motorcycle fender light on the hood of the cyclecar behind the molded radiator shroud. As you know, I like things Indian.
I'm still thinking in terms of the upturned aluminum canoe for the body, but also still trying to figure a way to use at least part of the AMF moped frame to give it a kind of pedigree of legality... serial number, papers, etc. and ability to register it as a moped. For that reason I'd still be thinking of using the tri car front end so that part of the frame could be utilized, keeping it's moped heritage clear... also the rear wheel bolted to the dropouts. Somehow the carriage for the body frame would get welded to the moped frame and there would be a plywood base for the gunnels to bolt to. I'll post a few photos later to give a better idea of what I'm thinking about. I want for this to be legal somehow so that I can ride it around without being hassled. There must be a way...
SB

 

[silverbear]

Photos below should give an idea of my thinking...
First is Jay Leno in the new version of the Morgan. Next up is a reproduction of an Indian motorcycle fender running light. My sidecar for the Indian Hiawatha is the same length as the Worksman bike frame. On the bike trailer is the AMF Tomos Orphan moped with a Harbor Freight modified headlight... similar to the Morgan. The remains of the Grumman canoe may not yield enough length for the cyclecar body, but I won't know that until later when I have the moped donor and can measure what remains of the canoe. At worst I can find another canoe donor. for the body.
SB

 

[silverbear]

The intended moped donor, a Columbia powered by a German Solo, a water cooled 2 stroke engine of 50CC displacement, single speed, supposedly rugged and reliable. It may be that the frame or at least a chunk of it could be incorporated into the cyclecar frame. If not, I'm sure the AMF frame could be modified to work. The frame of either would get stretched to allow for lower seating. At least that's my thinking at this stage of the process, all subject to change of course.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

I think that two old lads could creatively stare at the problem and work something out.
As someone on the forum said you couldn't enclose the driver and say it was a motorcycle in their state.
This will need to be looked into but there is a good chance that we would be able to work the part that has the serial number into the build. Have you found where the serial number is on the A.M.F.?

Was up until three am looking for velocar body inspiration. I found a couple and one looked like a boat on the rear of a car. It's called an Amilcar Skiff. If you goggle it you will see what I mean.

1925 Amilcar Skiff | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Smaller and a single seater? I have to go and check my mahogany stash. I'll be right back. :}

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

That Amilcar Skiff is a sweet machine. I'd say go for it as a single seater with three wheels... and in mahogany? Wow!

In looking again at photos of the Grumman canoe leftovers, I think it will be plenty long enough at 8 1/2 feet if I'm figuring right. Plus add a bit for the fake radiator cowling and it should be ample. I'm sure there's a way to make it work.

I'd like to know more about the laws regarding legality. It seems pointless to me to build one of these which would be legal without a body shell, but illegal with one. Doesn't seem right, but we know how fickle and boneheaded lawmakers can be.... just look at Canada. If we can't tool around Ely town on a summer evening showing off our cool cyclecars to the tourists, where's the fun in having them? And I surely don't want a machine I have built from nothing to awesome to get confiscated by the cops. I had thought if it was technically a legal moped of 50 or less CCs and had lights, signals, horn, etc. then we'd be OK. Need to find out.
SB

 

[Ibedayank]

SB keep it a motor assited bicycle do NOT use the moped serial number then you need full lights including turn signals for MN insureance registration and all the rest of that crap


most states define bicycle as having 3 or less wheels smallest 16 inches diameter
if you enclose a trike/moped then its a car in most states

 

[silverbear]

What if you enclose a bicycle framed trike, is it then considered to be a car? Say you did A worksman trike with a 50cc china girl motor and put a fabric shell around it? Does that make it a car? And if it does, how in the world would you get it registered and insured? Does it even matter if it has an engine?
SB

 

[Ibedayank]

does it have a title?...or a 17 didgit vin?
or certificate of origin?



laws here in tn do not state what the body of a bicycle is...there for as long as it meets the laws that define motor assisted BICYCLE then velomobile it is...



you might want to limit how many motorcycle parts you use for that very reason...

 

[silverbear]

Moped and motorcycle are not the same thing... or at least that's my understanding. In Minnesota and here in Maryland where I am for the winter, you don't need anything if it is 50cc or less... motor assisted bicycle, moped or scooter. That's what I've been led to believe anyway. I had thought that by using moped parts I'd be within the letter of the law. I want to know what's up before committing to build one.
SB

 

[Ibedayank]

mab...no plates insureance.... moped..plates and insureance
in minisnowda ANYTHING with a motor that sees public land need insureance..even snowmobiles

our mabs are the only exciption to the rule

my son lives in carlton so i looked it up

 

[fasteddy]

With three wheels it should still be considered a motor assisted bicycle. With a body it would be a velocar which is a bicycle with a body not a motorcycle.
The motor isn't over 50cc so it wouldn't be considered a motorcycle at any point of the game.
The moped trikes that were built with floorboards and bench seats and surrey roofs are legal in Minnesota because they had pedals. I tried to buy one a couple of times but they were in Frostbite Falls Minnesota or International Falls and for sale in February. They did have paper work from the state so they were legal. I'd just ask to make sure.

I think their wives said sell it and what better time of year if it isn't for sale and it shuts up the complaining. Well Honey, I tried to sell it.

I wouldn't put anything on the road larger that a bicycle without lights and signals and even then it is a good idea to have them. Back when it wasn't the law to have your lights on during the day it was quite common to have your motorcycle drive out from under you when you were rear ended by someone who claimed they didn't see you.

We always looked in the rear view mirror when we sat at a stop light and that saved my tail feathers and my chopped Triumph once. I saw someone who was planning to stop where I was sitting and dropping the clutch and doing a wild right hand turn is the only thing that saved me.
How you miss a 250lb guy sitting on a bike is beyond me but the driver was shaking so bad that I know he wasn't lying when he said he didn't see me.

We will have time to talk to the DMV before we build anything anyway.

The canoe should be long enough to make a really good body out of.

Have to find a source of mahogany since there isn't enough left. Fastest and cheapest way out is luan plywood over a frame with a mahogany veneer over that. Bought a ten pack of poster board at Wal-Mart yesterday just in case. Now I think I should have bought two of them.

Steve.