Cool pages. The guy who runs the Spanish language Villiers page is into some interesting stuff
Velocars and other interesting vehicles.
- Thread starter Intrepid Wheelwoman
- Start date
That little Mochet grows on one. I think I'll Google it and see what it looks like when assembled. Fascinating construction there; a combination of innovation and old-fashioned functionality.
The word Huehnerschreck, there's an English equivalent used by some for the Honda Cub bikes. Chicken Chaser.
Now, Zoran, do you know the old Bond Microcars? They had a Villiers engine and transmission unit driving the front wheel, and the whole assembly was turned by the steering. It actually works quite well, and leaves the rear wheels free to be pedalled. A modern version could use a complete scooter motor/transmission unit, and there are 50cc 4 strokes around with automatic transmissions.
Now, Zoran, do you know the old Bond Microcars? They had a Villiers engine and transmission unit driving the front wheel, and the whole assembly was turned by the steering. It actually works quite well, and leaves the rear wheels free to be pedalled. A modern version could use a complete scooter motor/transmission unit, and there are 50cc 4 strokes around with automatic transmissions.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello Ludwig, [/FONT]Surely a Sachs or an ILO 98 would do that? There were names like New Map and Ydral in France, and hundred of Italians. I'd personally love a Motobecane "velomoteur leger".
I live 4 miles, 6-7km, from the National Motorcycle Museum. I've been to the Sammy Miller Museum in New Milton, it's a few miles from Southampton if you get a boat across, or a bit further from Bournemouth if you fly there. There are autojumbles throughout the summer across the country, and there are events like Founders Day for the VMCC.
The NACC,National Autocycle Club have branches and runs, and are a very good source of information and contacts.
We have lots of aircraft museums (I am upset, Elvington has a helicopter my age, and it's obsolete
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]You are lucky to live in such magnificent surrounding, with possibility to wander around, from one to another place important and interesting to motoring history, including magnificent flaying machines – and generally industrial and technical history.[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]The same, possibility to buy various components on auto-jumbles, for fair price! Good for any kind of DIY project, and even just for watching and searching... Here in Swiss, there is such opportunity every second year, in nearby town – but prices of everything is astronomic, even for simple junk with historical origins...[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]I visited NACC web-pages: wonderful machines and wonderful people! Such motorised bicycles in category of “auto-cycles”, with engines up to 100 cc and possibility of pedaling (in necessity) – were among the most practical. Now, they should be in category of motorcycles, if it isn't possible to register them as “historical vehicles”...[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]If decided to build quadricycle or tricycle (if I could start such a project!), I would be forced to used moped (engine or entire vehicle) with two-stroke, air-cooled engine of 49 cc – as the most economical solution. Second-hand mopeds are here crazy expensive, in spite being in terrible condition - so one TOMOS from Belgrade?[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Attached are photos from mentioned Swiss auto-jumblle, with examples that are much better then in "broken-haus"...
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Ludwig,
I remebered my password on Facebook and could visit pages with Auto-cycles! Great examples indeed and great people - enjoy a lot! The same as British club! Are there motorised bicycles or light motrcycles with 4-stroke Villiers engines?
Anybody recognised engine on attached photo?
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Annie,Mochet CM chassis
Thank you on excelelnt photo of motorised Mochet chassis! Did they have hybrids: pedalling and engine, or only one of propulsion systems? Why they still kept narrow rear end, when there are no more pedals - to avoid necessity of differential?
The green engine could be Villiers, BSA, J.A.P., all sorts, even Douglas, famous for flat twins, made industrial engines.
How far are you from a border in Switzerland? There must be small businesses just beyond the passport control, with Swiss prices so high.
How far are you from a border in Switzerland? There must be small businesses just beyond the passport control, with Swiss prices so high.
Ludwig,
As I know, Annie now adopted Bond layout for her 3-wheel hybrid? Of course, there are many cars wich such engine-over-front-wheel system, from pioneer years of motorisation up to fifites, sometime even today...
That could be good solution for smaller 3-wheelers and two seats, when it is hard task to desing proper place for engine/transmission... With 90°-0°-90° turning of front wheel: there is almost no need for reverse gear - "auto" could be turned around rear wheels... Anyway, I would use only "feet-power" or "wife-power" for reverse movement!
In Belgrade, I had young friend (son of my girl-friend in my bachelor's days), that had small dealership and workshop for Chinese scooters. There were always a few cheap engine/transmission complets pulled-away from crached scooters. Also, a few combination to have 125 cc engine with papers for 49 cc engine (cheating a little?)...
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Does a 4 wheeled vehicle, especially if the 2 rear ones are close together, need 2 wheel drive? Could a single wheel drive assembly be used, to allow the other wheel to be pedalled?
It's just a thought, because some of the old European microcars did that. Perhaps it wasn't very successful? I don't know.
ps
The twin cylinder engine above was 250cc, but I have read that it was less popular than the 225cc single it replaced.
It's just a thought, because some of the old European microcars did that. Perhaps it wasn't very successful? I don't know.
ps
The twin cylinder engine above was 250cc, but I have read that it was less popular than the 225cc single it replaced.
Ludwig,
From the end... Theoretically, and two-cylinder engine is better balanced and more efficient than single-cylinder, if all other is the same (displacement, construction...). But, that depends of realisation! Single cylinder is simpler and mostly cheaper to buy and operate... I know from old JAWA motorcycles that twin 250 cc was better then single 250 cc – but, twin was “California” model with some other improvements, too.
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With my friend from USA, I discussed a lot that issue: power on one or both rear wheels (in that case with or without differential). We concluded that for my light, slow and low-powered quadricycle – it would be quite well to have power on just one wheel! He had experience with small American automobiles from fifties/sixties – King-Midget, that all of them had power on just one rear wheel! He didn't have any problems with that, not even with reconstructed examples with 12 to 18 and more HP.
People that build Cycle-Karts (half-sized replicas of GP racers from vintage era) – used mostly power on one wheel. If had to drive a lot over bad roads – they blocked another wheel to axle and drove them as go-karts...
East-German SIMSON, had power on just left wheel without problems in spite that it was 3-wheeler. Now, people like to race them, quite tuned!
So, for me: power on just one wheel should be enough, no mater how rear axle is wide! In that case, pedaling could be on another wheel – with bicycle type free-wheel! If want power on both wheels, I would use belt/pulley system to act as limited differential - only if two-wheel power would be asked by officials, but not likelly...
From the end... Theoretically, and two-cylinder engine is better balanced and more efficient than single-cylinder, if all other is the same (displacement, construction...). But, that depends of realisation! Single cylinder is simpler and mostly cheaper to buy and operate... I know from old JAWA motorcycles that twin 250 cc was better then single 250 cc – but, twin was “California” model with some other improvements, too.
--- ---
With my friend from USA, I discussed a lot that issue: power on one or both rear wheels (in that case with or without differential). We concluded that for my light, slow and low-powered quadricycle – it would be quite well to have power on just one wheel! He had experience with small American automobiles from fifties/sixties – King-Midget, that all of them had power on just one rear wheel! He didn't have any problems with that, not even with reconstructed examples with 12 to 18 and more HP.
People that build Cycle-Karts (half-sized replicas of GP racers from vintage era) – used mostly power on one wheel. If had to drive a lot over bad roads – they blocked another wheel to axle and drove them as go-karts...
East-German SIMSON, had power on just left wheel without problems in spite that it was 3-wheeler. Now, people like to race them, quite tuned!
So, for me: power on just one wheel should be enough, no mater how rear axle is wide! In that case, pedaling could be on another wheel – with bicycle type free-wheel! If want power on both wheels, I would use belt/pulley system to act as limited differential - only if two-wheel power would be asked by officials, but not likelly...
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Ludwig, [/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Such old industrial engines are cute for me, but probably even harder to find in good condition and more expensive than moped engines... New models should be practical, too (probably Chinese clones)...
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I live in Bern, almost in the center of Switzerland, that is quite small and borders are not far away. Everything around is cheaper, but I couldn't be sure for small workshops - that would need a lot of direct searching around and knowledge of languages: French, Italian and German! Too complicated in my years. Anyway, all works should be too expensive for me! My plan should be to build everything by myself and if I couldn't finish some details - my friends in Serbia could do that for me (when I go there for holidays)...[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]--- ---[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Process must be simple, quick and cheap: [/FONT]
- [FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]first to finished my HPV quadricycle and test it around, with and without passenger;[/FONT]
- [FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]then try some "motorisation" by simple and cheap electric-power system (gasoline engine isn't allowed as assistance for bicycles),[/FONT]
- [FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]next year: reconstructed this HPV quadricycle to some more practical velocar with two persons pedaling; if it is possible - install engine in it, keeping pedals;[/FONT]
There are advantages to living in a small, crowded country. I can walk to a scrapyard and buy 30cc engines for £10 a time. A bigger one might go up to £20 or £30. Even at today's prices, scrap tubing and strip is easy to find thrown away.
If I need anything more, then there are tool supply companies (the engine in the 650w Chinese generators is about 60cc), garden centres.
Add to this the autojumbles where one can stumble across such rarities as a downdraught 19mm Amal carb that nobody can identify, Ariel Square 4 overhead cam parts, and oddities such as Sears badged Puchs. Quite why they made their way from America to here, nobody knows, but that's life.
I think, on reflection, I should be thankful.
If I need anything more, then there are tool supply companies (the engine in the 650w Chinese generators is about 60cc), garden centres.
Add to this the autojumbles where one can stumble across such rarities as a downdraught 19mm Amal carb that nobody can identify, Ariel Square 4 overhead cam parts, and oddities such as Sears badged Puchs. Quite why they made their way from America to here, nobody knows, but that's life.
I think, on reflection, I should be thankful.
Well, what do you know: they're rather cute little things, very endearing in their simplicity. I like them. Wish we had them over here. I'd drive one.The wonderful Mochet CM