Velocar cyclecar semi-replica.

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Um..... I did have a posh hat with a brim like that one that I bought for some family occasion years ago. I wonder what I did with it? - I haven't seen it for ages....... Did I give it to the Sallies? - not sure.......

 

[silverbear]

My Villiars came with a kick start which I removed because it simply took up too much room. No way to have both a kickstart and be able to still pedal with where I had to place my engine. You, however, have a different situation. A kick start (as found on the Atco mowers) would be very cool on your machine and would be a convenient way to start it as well. Harry76 over in Oz may very well have an extra one as I believe he had two or three of these engines. Something to think about, eh?
SB

Intrepid,
Here are two photos of the kick start hardware for the Villiars Midget... does this look like it would bolt right onto your engine? I'm quite sure they were all the same. Looks to be well designed and well made of good material. I had so wanted it to work on the 34 Elgin, but it did not. There is something very cool, retro and motorcyclish about putting your foot down to give it an authoritative start... putt putt putt...
SB

 

[silverbear]

Intrepid,
Just got an update from fasteddy's brother regarding his medical condition... seems to be on the mend. I had asked John (the brother) to ask Steve about offering you the kick-start we did not use, the one in the above pictures. Just got an enthusiastic "Send it!" communication, so now I can kind of officially offer to send this off to you for your wonderful cyclecar build. It would be a gift from two old fellows in North America to an intrepid wheel woman in far away NZ.

Please do not feel that you are expected to use it. We well understand that it might not fit into your plans, but we'd like to give what support we can to your enterprise and it would feel pretty cool to know that we had a small hand in it's creation. If you want it, it is yours and I'll get it boxed up and sent off soon.

Some might think this should be in a private message. I thought about it and don't think so.

I have been on the receiving end of a lot of kindness on this forum. A few years ago I experienced a truck fire which consumed my bike tools, finished motor bikes, engines, personal belongings... a very big loss along with the truck which was only insured for personal liability. Members of this forum came to the rescue unexpectedly and in a big way. I'd say that it was a major event in my life... not the fire, but the kindness which came my way. A big personal shift came when I learned how to gracefully accept help, which had always been a hard thing for me to do. Now I realize that it is as important as giving... receiving with a glad heart. I will forever be grateful to the good people here for that life lesson.

One of those kind folks was Fasteddy and it is how I got to know him and how we became friends. He is a kind and generous fellow. Heal up, buddy!

So, I make this small gift from us a public thing by making the offer here to encourage more of the same. Recently mason-man sent me a Schwinn feather chain guard for my kindalikeawhizzer. Chain maker sent me a genuine whizzer sheave and belts. How cool is that? These guys are now a part of my build and when I ride... well, they are riding with me. So I try to do the same, sending along what I don't need and someone else does. Steve (fasteddy) already knew how to do that. So in this way Stave & I have our thumbs out wanting to hitch a ride on your cyclecar. Can I honk the horn?
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Of course you can honk the horn SB

Thank you so much for thinking of me and my project; - and yes I can indeed make use of that kickstarter in building the Colombe. In fact having the kickstarter would solve some of the drive layout problems and make setting the whole thing up considerably easier.

I am so very pleased that Steve is on the mend and I very much look forward to the day when he is able to work on his own projects again and tell us all about them here on the forum.

Yes this forum is a wonderful on-line community of sweet and generous minded folk. Sometimes when I've been away myself due to having a bad patch with this illness I live with I've received so many kind and encouraging messages from forum members.
Thank Steve for me SB and when you see him give him a kiss from me........ No, perhaps you shouldn't do that, but do give him my heartfelt thanks and warm regards.

 

[silverbear]

Good deal. I'll honk the horn and Steve will want to start the motor, but I will pass widely on the kiss business. I'll get your starter packed up this week.
SB

 

[silverbear]

Send me your address in a PM so that I can send this off to the right place.
SB

 

[silverbear]

I have your parts packed up and ready to ship out tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to make it from the beginning of winter here in northeastern Minnesota all the way to spring becoming summer in New Zealand. I have it in a box within a box to hopefully keep it well protected on it's long journey. There is also a zip lock bag with sprocket gear, spring and such in it so be on the lookout for that within the packing material.
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

I have your parts packed up and ready to ship out tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to make it from the beginning of winter here in northeastern Minnesota all the way to spring becoming summer in New Zealand. I have it in a box within a box to hopefully keep it well protected on it's long journey. There is also a zip lock bag with sprocket gear, spring and such in it so be on the lookout for that within the packing material.
SB

Thanks so much Silverbear, I'll make sure I keep an eye out for those small parts.

The two 90mm brakes I ordered for the Colombe are on their way. These aren't the band brakes of similar appearance, these are internal expanding brakes which I'm very keen to try out.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Now I do hope you've all read, 'Une "Auto" Facile A Construire', because if you haven't I shall be ever so slightly annoyed that you have failed to do the set homework which is essential to understanding what I am going to be talking to you about today.

Now I would dearly love to build the four wheeled cyclecar according to those plans, only here in New Zealand it would be deemed to be a car which would involve a great deal of unpleasantness with the Police girls and guys here in town. The upshot would be that I would be dragged away in chains and made to break rocks in the hot sun or somesuch dire penalty. At my age and with my complexion this would be a disaster so I plan to lose a wheel and never mention it again.

The essential difference with these plans is that the chassis is sprung on the buckboard principle so that it is the wooden chassis itself that provides the suspension. As I'm building a delta trike in the basic outline of a Colombe cyclecar I have to find a way to anchor the steering head onto a flexible lot of planks without making a mess of it. I will freely admit that I almost gave up and committed myself to a welded steel chassis and metal springs.

I didn't though and after a certain amount of measuring and creative staring I've managed to devise a hybrid system which will use wooden springs on the rear axle and will stll allow the steering head to be solidly mounted.
The Smiths Flyer used a very similar chassis to the Systeme 'D' plan and I've included a drawing here written in American for your further information.

Tomorrow I will be making a start on the new layout and hopefully by the close of play I should have some pictures to show you.

 

[silverbear]

What an interesting project this is! Can't wait for "show and tell" ( that's something most of us here in the U.S. experienced as children in school, where you were supposed to bring something to show and then tell about it all the while standing in front of the class hoping you remembered to zip up your fly, that your socks matched, that you didn't embarrass yourself somehow and get laughed at). No matter what you do, Intrepid, we will not laugh!
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

What an interesting project this is! Can't wait for "show and tell" ( that's something most of us here in the U.S. experienced as children in school, where you were supposed to bring something to show and then tell about it all the while standing in front of the class hoping you remembered to zip up your fly, that your socks matched, that you didn't embarrass yourself somehow and get laughed at). No matter what you do, Intrepid, we will not laugh!
SB

In New Zealand Primary Schools it was called, 'Morning Talk', but it was essentially the same thing as 'show and tell'. I was always too shy back then to stand up in front of the class, but occasionally the teacher did winkle me out to do a talk with me blushing like a beacon the whole time.
I am very pleased to hear that nobody is going to laugh at me for building a wooden chassis SB, but I'm sure that there will be some amusing moments for me to confide along the way.

Because I haven't been sleeping well I took a sleeping pill last night and as a result didn't wake up today until 4.00pm in the afternoon! Not the best way to make an early start on this project, but I'll still be getting out there and rolling my sleeves up after a cup of tea and a late breakfast.
The dark red painted three wheeled cyclecar is actually a 'Villard' which was the successor to the 'Colombe' and the thing that interests me most about it is the utility type body it's fitted with. As tempting as it is to do the whole, 'driving through Paris in a sportscar with the warm wind in her hair,' thing; - the ability for this project three wheeler to carry a load is very necessary. So for that reason the utility bodyshell is going to have to win out over anything with tapering rear panels.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Further research has rewarded me with the knowledge that this bodystyle was called a 'Tricycle Pickup.' Further photographs that have come to light detail the way the bodyshell was constructed.

The front bonnet area that covers the wheel and the engine is mostly of fabric construction over a light tubular framework by the way.

 

[silverbear]

Intrepid,
I like the Villard and can see the wisdom in building something to fit your needs rather than to follow a particular model that catches your eye. The color of the paint is not what gets us to our destination, yet it is often a consideration more persuasive than any other. "Oh, I want the red one!" I think it was Frank Lloyd wright who insisted that form should follow function. If not him then some smart lady either said that or meant to.

The Villard is interesting and a tubular framework covered in fabric would be a good way to handle the rounded shape of the hood or cowl area. I can also see in my mind's eye a single headlight semi covered by the hood at the front end.

How hard is it to weld electrical conduit together? (I'm not much of a welder, myself.) A conduit bender could handle the bends nicely and at least here in the states is surprisingly inexpensive. I think the pre made connectors is where it starts getting costly. Even so, you wouldn't need many. Depends on what is available to you. If you have it, wood is good.

Was also thinking that a rigid, removable top would give weather protection when needed. It could be quite light if made of something like conduit covered in canvas or a doped fabric. Set it in place and fasten it down. It would keep the rain off yourself and precious cargo or give shade from intense sun. It could all be squared like a kind of surrey top on old buggies or even go a totally different direction being curved like the Conestoga wagons of America's pioneer period. Of course a folding top with bows would be nice, but also more complicated to make, perhaps a refinement for later on.

I think the Villard gives a good general design with one door (or two) for ease in entry and exit. It also allows for a strong main body of flat panels lends itself to plywood construction. Make it strong where it needs to be strong and ultra light where strength is not needed. Sometimes we need to show some muscle and at other times a light touch is called for.
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Thanks SB. Apparently despite the Colombe/Villard cyclecars having a lot of racing success most were built in either the tricycle pickup or a tricycle van format. Eleven Villards survive worldwide, but there is no record any of the earlier Colombe cyclecars surviving.

Some kind of weather protection is going to be essential, but I haven't given too much thought to that just yet. Something folding with hood bows would be nice, though some kind of fixed framework that can be lifted away when not needed might prove to be more practical.

We don't have EMT here as such as our electrical wiring standard regulations converted over to plastics some years ago, but small diameter steel tubing in similar sizes is readily available

Most of the body is going to be plywood over a basic wooden frame with some steel strap reinforcement where needed. Tonight I worked out how to build the bonnet/engine cover using flat steel strap to build the frame as a way to keep all the welded joints simple. Small diameter tube might look better, but it's a lot more work to weld.

The rear axle is going to have a diff afterall, - only this time I've worked out a way to make it lighter. More will be explained and shown once I make a start on it.

Approximate dimensions are going to be, 900cm rear track, 1600cm wheelbase and just over 2 metres for total length.

 

[silverbear]

Oh, I like that white Villard pickup. And just realized how appropriate for a Villard to have a Villiars engine... really, just a little over six feet long?
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Oh, I like that white Villard pickup. And just realized how appropriate for a Villard to have a Villiars engine... really, just a little over six feet long?
SB

A Villard cyclcar is longer than two meters, but my version is going to be smaller, perhaps ending up close to being 3/4's the size of the real thing. The Colombe was smaller than the Villard, so I guess I'm building a Colombe/Villard hybrid, but that's Ok

Yes a Villiers for a Villard!. Seems very appropriate somehow. I hadn't made the connection until you pointed it out SB,

That restored white Villard in the museum is magnificent, but mine will needs must be finished in a more serviceable colour.

 

[silverbear]

2/3 size will serve your needs and be of a size for the Villiars midget. Will your brass headlamp go where it is shown on the blue one? And the horn I get to honk (also brass?), where will that be? One door or two? And what color will it be?
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Yes my lovely brass headlamp will be going in the same place as the one on the blue Villard. There will indeed be a bulb horn SB and it will be mounted beside the windscreen post on the right hand side. As it happens blue is very high on the list of possible colours as it's an entirely appropriate colour for a French inspired cyclecar to be.
The original Villards used a two cycle 350cc twin cylinder engine so building my semi-replica smaller is essential if I want it to actually be able to move itself. I'm planning on using 1/8th ply over a wooden frame and then covering the ply with a fabric covering which should make for a nice lightweight bodyshell. To maintain bodyshell strength there will be just the one door which is pretty much standard practice for French cyclecars. Alas my days of being able to climb over the side of a vekicle with no doors have long since gone (sigh).

 

[Ludwig II]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrscharroo/6868929071/

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrscharroo/6868929071/

An Ardex? Nice, but not quite what I'm looking for here Ludwig. I may come back to the idea though once this present project is complete.