V-Twin Board track racer

I actually like the way the rear triangle looks, with the big spokes & that goes for the fork & front wheel as well. Eyes on the ground are better attuned than photo studies to reveal the subtleties involved, however and I'm sure 5/8" would look just fine.
 
Tom you might be interested to know that custom motorcycle builder Billy Lane has fabricated board track frames using large tube in the complete frame, coupled with original Harley, Indian, Excelsior etc. V Twin power plants; many of which are racing in the "Son's of thunder" flat track races he promotes and they look and run awesome...Videos on Utube. Rick C.
 
I copied and pasted your picture so i could zoom it in, Indian22 is right, most old motorcycles had larger tubes. I think your will be just fine the way it is, its just to empty the way it is. Get the motor and all on it will be a hole new concept. Here is a reference, 1926 Indian Prince.......Curt
ej0315-211465_1.jpg
 
Pretty little Indian....Tom I just hope you build yours the way you want it; as far as I'm concerned it's looking not only vintage but terrific! Rick C.
 
Curt you are right about the empty spaces I just think it breaks things up a little with noticeable different size tubes.
The photo you posted was of a 1926 I am building 1915 with peddles. thank you for the support.
Rick it might look ok to others but not to me and it easer to just change it and move on rather then wish I had changed it. I found a piece of 3/4 tube and made some new ones. It's just .125 differance but that makes a big change to me.
Here is the pictures.
image.jpeg image.jpeg
 
LOL! Was going to suggest 3/4" then, then lost track of it. Looks good, sorta like the 26 Indian, they also look a tad smaller.............Curt
 
Bravo Tom for following your instincts. The bikes that others build that please me most are those into which the builder inserts his sense of style and proportion. I've mentioned your wheels & the large spokes (which I greatly admire) I can't remember seeing a vintage moto with such large spokes, though some probably exist, they are not the norm; yet they look awesome & quite appropriate on your early early 20th. century cycle. Using smaller tube on the stays was & still is the norm in bicycle construction & the early motor driven cycles frames were just basic bikes adapted for motor power. One of the reasons I love the first two decades of moto cycles above all others is that continued use of the inherent simplicity of proven bicycle design coupled to a motor. Rick C.
 
Probably just me but when I looked at the frame I saw the bike completed. It's always been like that for me so I don't question it anymore. The bike as I saw it was absolutely stunning.

Steve.
 
Hi Mr. B its good to here from you. I just checked out your link thats a nice bike you built.

I have been researching the peddle assembly that I need to make and just discovered that the peddle assembly needs to be an acentric so that you have a way to adjust the primary chain. So what I think I am going to do is build the peddles in an acentric and put the primary hub on the peddle shaft with a one way clutch in it so that I can peddle start it . This is my first build with peddles does this sound right. I know that some of these bikes had the one way clutch in the rear hub and had two chains going to the rear tire. Tom
 
The 3 D manual clutch can be used on a bottom bracket setup like Curtis' post shows to pedal/ bump start the motor. That dry clutch is available for 3/4" shaft only, but easy to fit a bushing for smaller shaft diameter.
Goggle 3 D clutch to read details and watch videos of clutch in action.

Clutch mounted on the motor with a reduction gear to couple primary chain to secondary chain or belt is more typical of power side setup. Using the bottom bracket or jack shaft. Pedal side chain line to through a freewheel/ coaster setup. Rick C.
 
I'm not a fan of the centrif. clutch, my opinion of course & several reasons, a manual dry clutch of whatever brand or design makes bump/pedal starts reliable & delivers power from idle & up without wasting spin up rpm to 2,000 or more before lockup.harder Wet clutch is much harder to bump off than the dry design. At any rate all work in their own way. Rick C.
 
Tom TG said:
Hi Mr. B its good to here from you. I just checked out your link thats a nice bike you built.

I have been researching the peddle assembly that I need to make and just discovered that the peddle assembly needs to be an acentric so that you have a way to adjust the primary chain. So what I think I am going to do is build the peddles in an acentric and put the primary hub on the peddle shaft with a one way clutch in it so that I can peddle start it . This is my first build with peddles does this sound right. I know that some of these bikes had the one way clutch in the rear hub and had two chains going to the rear tire. Tom
Click to expand...

An acentric on the pedal side is a good and proven way to go as seen by just how may of the original era bikes used that. And the driven side can easily be adjusted with screws in the rear drop outs.

And don't forget half links to get you close in the first place! LOL!
 
Steve some how I missed your post thanks.
I have the same thoughts as Rick on to the cetrif. clutch .
I checked out the 3D clutch and ordered one thanks for all the good info. It really helps a guy that does not know about the parts that are avalible.
I have been working on the peddle assembly and am wondering about peddle stroke length and hight off the ground. Any help would be appreciated.
Here is the pictures.
image.jpeg image.jpeg
 
Tom TG said:
Steve some how I missed your post thanks.
I have the same thoughts as Rick on to the cetrif. clutch .
I checked out the 3D clutch and ordered one thanks for all the good info. It really helps a guy that does not know about the parts that are avalible.
I have been working on the peddle assembly and am wondering about peddle stroke length and hight off the ground. Any help would be appreciated.
Here is the pictures.
View attachment 97299 View attachment 97300
Click to expand...

Tom, this is one of the design conflicts we face when dramatically lowering frame height thus placing the bottom bracket closer to the ground, which means using anything close to a standard length pedal lever will be dragging the ground. At just over 6' in height my ideal pedal length is 165 mm (6.5") on a bicycle, on both my Harley & Simplex build I reduced that to 4 inches & on the Simplex raised the pedal bracket about 3" above that 4" clearance height. In addition I used a very small 2:1 pedal ratio sprocket. I believe that was 12 t on rear and 22 t sprocket front. If you reviewed either of these two builds you will have noted that saddle height is not much higher than top of the rear tire. These bikes can only be pedaled with difficulty due to being unable to reach full leg extension. The only solution is to stand up a bit and pump or raise saddle height to allow full leg extension on the down stroke...there is no room to safely extend pedal length.

Forgive me for some of this explanation is basic knowledge for those who've ridden bicycles a great deal, but many have not, though they may be very accomplished on motorcycles. A basic skill that is vital on low slung design moto cycles, which also feature pedals is to "carry" your pedals level at all times and bearing quite a bit of ones body weight on them at all times. Riding with one pedal up & one extended down is bad riding technique even when biking in a straight line, but cornering or riding on uneven terrain (speed bumps) with one pedal lever down is asking for a spill. Cornering left or right with that corresponding pedal lever down & extended is an almost certain to result in a pedal lever to terrain hangup & usually a hard fall. Pedals carried level at all times is a good habit to get into.

Tom I'd suggest giving overall ride height (at the saddle) some real thought to get enough leg extension on your pedal strokes for starting your bike. Leg extension is what delivers maximum power to each pedal stroke. Many bicyclists use a "seat popper" which is a gas powered spring, to lower the saddle for control or stopping, while seated & foot on the ground, which at the touch of a lever elevates the saddle to full height for power. These are inserted into the seat tube & work great. I have one in my mountain bike and another to mount in something as may be required. Lot of words, but if you look at some photos of really low builds, especially those with large motors & motorcycle weight you'll realize why some chose to not include the pedal chain drive.

Your bottom bracket is coming along nicely. Rick C.
 
Rick thanks for the info. on the peddles. I think I have enough ground clearance for a 5 " stroke.
I have been welding on the frame and cleaning up the welds it's a time consuming job and I am not done yet . But I am going to move on and finish that later. The rear drop out was made over size for the rear stand I am not sure how I am going to mount it so I left some extra meat on it.
Here is a picture of the frame and one of the engine being test fitted in to the frame and that's a tight fit. I my have to notch the lower tube for some rocker arm clearance.
image.jpeg image.jpeg
 
Tom said "....I may have to notch the lower frame tube for some rocker clearance..."

While you're at it, consider Curt's suggestion and look into notching the tank too for that truly vintage look.
You've gone the extra mile with all other aspects of this inspirational build.
Carry on...
 
Tom TG said:
Rick thanks for the info. on the peddles. I think I have enough ground clearance for a 5 " stroke.
I have been welding on the frame and cleaning up the welds it's a time consuming job and I am not done yet . But I am going to move on and finish that later. The rear drop out was made over size for the rear stand I am not sure how I am going to mount it so I left some extra meat on it.
Here is a picture of the frame and one of the engine being test fitted in to the frame and that's a tight fit. I my have to notch the lower tube for some rocker arm clearance.
View attachment 97442 View attachment 97443
Click to expand...

Tom tight makes it look all the more "original" as they mostly squeezed in and just barely fit the old bikes. Hope you don't need to notch but if you do no big deal, re-enforce a bit and move on. Since you decided to go pedal start with the 3-D clutch I'd wondered if your engine design included a compression relief design in the valve train for starting? If not I'd think a compression of 8.5 or under would be pretty manageable on bump starts. Do you also require both spark advance and throttle control? Your engine build thread probably answers those questions but it's been awhile since I read through it.

What about brakes? Just a rear? Or are you going the "no fear" route? Your progress is looking steller & know you've a good handle on it all. Rick C.
 
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