Old Guys V twin & sidecar
- Thread starter indian22
- Start date
indian22
Well-Known Member
Curt I'm starting to think the battery balancer works differently than the Chinese explanation describes. And that it equalizes the two separate battery packs voltages continuously rather than allow one to go to BMS regulated shutdown before switching to the second pack.
At any rate I will know for sure later in the day when I check each packs voltage separately. If one pack is a lot fuller than the other I will know how the function works for sure. If both packs are equally discharged then it's continual balancing of both batteries equally.
Let you know...
At any rate I will know for sure later in the day when I check each packs voltage separately. If one pack is a lot fuller than the other I will know how the function works for sure. If both packs are equally discharged then it's continual balancing of both batteries equally.
Let you know...
Tony01
Well-Known Member
Looks nice Rick. I’m not sure what that balancer is about. I would make a parallel harness and connect both packs when they’re at the same state of charge to avoid unnecessary connecting of the controller. Not knowing the exact specs, but generally in a system where things are disconnected then connected often, a contactor setup is used with a precharge circuit to not blow the controller due to the high inrush of current. My stuff I connect it once and then forget about it, and just hope for the best. Those anti spark connectors may work for a few plugs but the precharge resistor gets smoked eventually. I’ve not done the research so I can’t say if one way or the other is better, I just know that people do discuss it.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Thanks Tony glad .to hear from you and value your input. I'd heard about these "blenders" several different names used and several designs available at widely different price points, so I just picked a mid range price and ordered one to see if it worked. If it's junk I have my wiring bag to the saddlebags now and can just manually switch battery packs quickly.
This switcher uses a MCU, diode and a FET. Power out to the motor controller, 2 battery inputs A&B. Simple circut and looks well made. 40 amp continuous output rating and works with 48v, 52v or 60 v. Not 72v (70v maximum input.)
XT 90 no sparks are ok for 48v , but if a guy is running 72v or higher I don't think they could last long. I ended up using standard XT plugs on this battery setup. I run BMS on all my battery packs and don't mess with balancing just plug and charge on the bike, so I don't disconnect the discharge cables very often, if at all. Fingers crossed I've only blown two controllers to this point, both my fault and that's how I learn. Plus guys like you save me some expensive lessons as we. So thanks for your input.
Hope things are rockin out your way, in a good way Tony.
Rick C.
This switcher uses a MCU, diode and a FET. Power out to the motor controller, 2 battery inputs A&B. Simple circut and looks well made. 40 amp continuous output rating and works with 48v, 52v or 60 v. Not 72v (70v maximum input.)
XT 90 no sparks are ok for 48v , but if a guy is running 72v or higher I don't think they could last long. I ended up using standard XT plugs on this battery setup. I run BMS on all my battery packs and don't mess with balancing just plug and charge on the bike, so I don't disconnect the discharge cables very often, if at all. Fingers crossed I've only blown two controllers to this point, both my fault and that's how I learn. Plus guys like you save me some expensive lessons as we. So thanks for your input.
Hope things are rockin out your way, in a good way Tony.
Rick C.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Now i'm excited Tony! For those who are relative new comers to the forum Tony is a very talented guy not just building e-bikes and batteries but gas bikes too, very inovative and rides a lot. He also knows things... check out his posts and threads worth a read or two...
Can't wait to see what your up to!
Rick C.
Tony01
Well-Known Member
indian22
Well-Known Member
Really good start on the cycle Tony. I look forward to a build thread.
Update on dual battery manager switch. It works well to this point and I know its function now. It continuously monitors and balances the twin battery packs, like the BMS does for each indivual cell in a lithium ion pack. It makes sure that each pack stays at the same voltage during a ride. So it's constantly switching between battery A and battery B to send power to the motor controller. The two packs are never truly active in parallel at the same time so current to the controller is never more than one battery can supply at any given moment. I went back and read the product description carefully and it wasn't accurate at all on the function of their product. Both battery packs drain at the same rate and a volt meter reading shows that after going 80 miles both batteries were at the same voltage and when voltage was cutoff at 39volts that was the voltageof both battery packs.
This is fine with me now that I know how it functions rather than how the distributor said it functioned. With two 48v 20 amp hr batteries riding 80 plus miles over the terrain I rode the last two days and at decent speeds, today I averaged 21 mph on a 160 lb bike & mild winds. I'm pleased. 90% of todays mileage was on asphalt county roads no start stop activity at all. No pedal assist either day. On flatter terrain and at say a leisurely pace averageing 15 mph. I can see 100 mile range not out of reason. Adding a third pack would allow 25 mph averages and close to 100 mile range as insurance is easy with the last battery wired directly to the controller as the switch is only for dual batteries.
Is it worth $60? I don't know, but I guess it was for me. I have three towns that are about 30 miles from me that I like to visit for car shows etc so good range on a heavy bike is 'kinda important to me.
I didn't notice any battery sag till about 5 miles before both batteries shut down. I felt a couple of throttle stutters and started towards home. Both batteries measured 39v when tested. They were both 54.5v fully charged. I slow charge at 2 amps so I expect it will take 9.5 to10 hrs to charge back to 54.5 v. I charge both at the same time with 2 separate chargers.
Well that's all i know about that.
Rick C.
Update on dual battery manager switch. It works well to this point and I know its function now. It continuously monitors and balances the twin battery packs, like the BMS does for each indivual cell in a lithium ion pack. It makes sure that each pack stays at the same voltage during a ride. So it's constantly switching between battery A and battery B to send power to the motor controller. The two packs are never truly active in parallel at the same time so current to the controller is never more than one battery can supply at any given moment. I went back and read the product description carefully and it wasn't accurate at all on the function of their product. Both battery packs drain at the same rate and a volt meter reading shows that after going 80 miles both batteries were at the same voltage and when voltage was cutoff at 39volts that was the voltageof both battery packs.
This is fine with me now that I know how it functions rather than how the distributor said it functioned. With two 48v 20 amp hr batteries riding 80 plus miles over the terrain I rode the last two days and at decent speeds, today I averaged 21 mph on a 160 lb bike & mild winds. I'm pleased. 90% of todays mileage was on asphalt county roads no start stop activity at all. No pedal assist either day. On flatter terrain and at say a leisurely pace averageing 15 mph. I can see 100 mile range not out of reason. Adding a third pack would allow 25 mph averages and close to 100 mile range as insurance is easy with the last battery wired directly to the controller as the switch is only for dual batteries.
Is it worth $60? I don't know, but I guess it was for me. I have three towns that are about 30 miles from me that I like to visit for car shows etc so good range on a heavy bike is 'kinda important to me.
I didn't notice any battery sag till about 5 miles before both batteries shut down. I felt a couple of throttle stutters and started towards home. Both batteries measured 39v when tested. They were both 54.5v fully charged. I slow charge at 2 amps so I expect it will take 9.5 to10 hrs to charge back to 54.5 v. I charge both at the same time with 2 separate chargers.
Well that's all i know about that.
Rick C.
MEASURE TWICE
Well-Known Member
I was reading some old thread maybe 2014, where I saw Tony asked and learned stuff of others, Silver Bear etc, but as I see now and for quite some time he is the GoTo Person! Amazing stuff being built all around. I did get to ride Hollister Hills OHV Park in CA on Presidents Day 2 weeks ago. Found some trails I could do I had not found before. I stopped before I got to the way too muddy part that goes probably close to a stream at a bottom of a hill trail. Weather is not for a while to go again.
MT
indian22
Well-Known Member
44 degrees and cloudy today, not bad but today is a back to the shop day. Work on getting the motor case finished to appear a 1912 Harley intake over exhaust gas engine. Copper fuel and oil lines with brass fittings and some aluminum case covers. Also I will fab a magneto case to complete the look of the motor. I may not add a primary chain guard as planned I like the open look and accessibility to the chain. I don't wear bell bottom Levi's so no chance to get caught in the chain using bicycle pedals for footrests. I'm close just need toget it done. Then back to the racing style side car frame, also close to having a rolling frame to bolt up to my Ol' Crow. Looking for a "monkey" to ride in the car too.
Rick C.
Rick C.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Cool Indian race bike and leaning competition side car. This diminutive size is characterisic of the race rigs. Mine will also be built small and much lower than this one. Very minimal body shell and my car wheel is mounted on an 18" moped rim rather than a 26" wheel size on my bike. Big difference in tire sizes.
Rick C.
Tony01
Well-Known Member
I just read through this thread. I hate to say but I failed to notice you have 3 threads with similar looking titles that start with “old guys” which had me confused (I use the new posts button). I saw you originally planned on running a 250 vtwin but with the reliability of your ebike will build the hack with that one. I must say that with the very realistic gasser look of your ebike I’ve gone into the habit of zooming in on every picture because even I can’t tell. It is so realistic I would not be able to tell from 5ft away in person. I have seen a lot of bikes, one or two replica types as well but it only takes a few seconds to see they’re ebikes with faux cylinders. None have the level of detail you’ve achieved. I would absolutely be fooled at a car show and it would take several minutes for me to figure it out, if I even did figure it out noticing the very, very minor details that give it away. Which I would never look for... but thanks to you I do now 
Well done Rick.
Well done Rick.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Thanks Tony like you I don't self promote well to get views. I'd rather ride or build...learning is way up on my priorites too.
I've didn't and haven't finished the motor case yet with cooper oil and gas lines complete with brass fittings, or aluminum crank case plates. I also will fab a magneto case and a brass oil "injector" on the gas tank. To that end I will add an oil bung to the gas/oil tank to sell the deal. The brass Schebler carb also needs authentic additions so I've waited two years to really make the case look real.
This style F head Harley intake over exhaust design was introduced in 1911 but full production began in 1912. Harley did not participate in racing at this time. They even advertised that If a HD bike won a race they had no association with that win.
My Ol'Crow is a 1912 replica of what was termed an "Outlaw racer" certainly not a factory team bike until 1915 when they started the HD racing program to cash in on the big sales of cycles that won races on board and dirt tracks. So my track style 1912 V-twin has lots of authentic elements, but a hodgepodge of components which an independent racer could run over a ten or 20 year career using the basic frame but adding newer stuff damaged in racing falls over many years of racing. This F head engine design was competitive on dirt tracks up into the fifties.
At any rate this is how twenties style forks are justified on a 1912 bike. Also this basic V Twin design was used by other manufacturers as well, it was a huge improvement over the earlier atmospheric intake valve designs.
I'm close to complete on these details to complete the look from 5 feet. The patina of the unpainted frame and bars helps to sell the vintage look.
Rick C.
I've didn't and haven't finished the motor case yet with cooper oil and gas lines complete with brass fittings, or aluminum crank case plates. I also will fab a magneto case and a brass oil "injector" on the gas tank. To that end I will add an oil bung to the gas/oil tank to sell the deal. The brass Schebler carb also needs authentic additions so I've waited two years to really make the case look real.
This style F head Harley intake over exhaust design was introduced in 1911 but full production began in 1912. Harley did not participate in racing at this time. They even advertised that If a HD bike won a race they had no association with that win.
My Ol'Crow is a 1912 replica of what was termed an "Outlaw racer" certainly not a factory team bike until 1915 when they started the HD racing program to cash in on the big sales of cycles that won races on board and dirt tracks. So my track style 1912 V-twin has lots of authentic elements, but a hodgepodge of components which an independent racer could run over a ten or 20 year career using the basic frame but adding newer stuff damaged in racing falls over many years of racing. This F head engine design was competitive on dirt tracks up into the fifties.
At any rate this is how twenties style forks are justified on a 1912 bike. Also this basic V Twin design was used by other manufacturers as well, it was a huge improvement over the earlier atmospheric intake valve designs.
I'm close to complete on these details to complete the look from 5 feet. The patina of the unpainted frame and bars helps to sell the vintage look.
Rick C.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Morning guys,
I've disassembled an old 6" 6v, headlight bucket that I guessed was a forties or fifties vintage, but could be decades older, as it's a style that's been popular worldwide since at least the teens on various American cycles and later scoots too.
Two tiny dings on the nickle plated lens retaining ring and the sealing gasket is hardened, but still intact. Thick glass lens is perfect as was the 6 volt bulb. Very slight rusting on the bucket edge. Blue paint wasn't a good job. The original paint was black and a nice, professional application was applied to the interior of the tin and still bright and shiny inside the bucket. It will cleanup well and I will start on it today. I have the led module to convert it. The reflector is also still quite good 90% at least. The bracket is solid so fabrication of a fork mount is a simple deal. Lights front and rear, illuminated full time are a big safety item which I'm giving into.
It's also time to upgrade my rear rack. The temporary rack I put on it just isn't heavy duty enough to haul and hold up under the loads I'm attaching to it.
Lots of changes, none major, just detail improvements like saddle springs (nice on hard tails and old bottoms) so I'll carry on!
Rick C.
I've disassembled an old 6" 6v, headlight bucket that I guessed was a forties or fifties vintage, but could be decades older, as it's a style that's been popular worldwide since at least the teens on various American cycles and later scoots too.
Two tiny dings on the nickle plated lens retaining ring and the sealing gasket is hardened, but still intact. Thick glass lens is perfect as was the 6 volt bulb. Very slight rusting on the bucket edge. Blue paint wasn't a good job. The original paint was black and a nice, professional application was applied to the interior of the tin and still bright and shiny inside the bucket. It will cleanup well and I will start on it today. I have the led module to convert it. The reflector is also still quite good 90% at least. The bracket is solid so fabrication of a fork mount is a simple deal. Lights front and rear, illuminated full time are a big safety item which I'm giving into.
It's also time to upgrade my rear rack. The temporary rack I put on it just isn't heavy duty enough to haul and hold up under the loads I'm attaching to it.
Lots of changes, none major, just detail improvements like saddle springs (nice on hard tails and old bottoms) so I'll carry on!
Rick C.
Tony01
Well-Known Member
It’s true Rick I don’t advertise much. In fact I quit. I can’t deal with the idiot customers. I can design and build. I’m going to do what I want to which is build and ride. I don’t even like talking bikes with rando’s anymore. Usually I say something like “it’s my buddies bike” which is like a girl saying “I have a boyfriend” and it means “go away”. It is selfish but the way to live true to yourself is to be selfish and live how you want, not how others want. Just like the women who essentially know every guy they meet is not “for real” I do too, I am 100% certain the person asking about my bike has never put a grinder to a frame themselves. It’s always the same 100 questions. Usually I meet the builders when selling stuff or driving around with my eye for customs. It’s like that car show story you talked about. The guy waiting for one person to notice his work in something that looked stock. It pretty much never happens. Bout once in 5 years for me.
See I can tell you this, and you will understand. Thanks to this forum where custom builders come together. But we would never meet in real life. Even if you lived in my neighborhood we may never meet. That’s why I love this so much. To know there’s a guy out there, that built the stuff you built. Someday I will build a bike I can road trip and I’d love to visit you and all the other builders on here.
See I can tell you this, and you will understand. Thanks to this forum where custom builders come together. But we would never meet in real life. Even if you lived in my neighborhood we may never meet. That’s why I love this so much. To know there’s a guy out there, that built the stuff you built. Someday I will build a bike I can road trip and I’d love to visit you and all the other builders on here.
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I spent 50 + years restoring antique furniture. I worked other jobs when I got tired of it but the last 30 years it was full time. I used to make up stories about what I did when asked. Refinishing antique furniture was in every country living and women's magazine that was printed in those days and they were dragging some of the worst crap out of barns and garages and every auction going and trying to refinish it. Every magazine had how to articles written by people who never had and shouldn't have tried. One thing was for certain though, if you followed their instructions you would be able to strip and refinish a 12 piece dinning room set in a weekend.
Everyone I met it seemed wanted me to correct the problems they were having with a piece of furniture without me seeing what they had and what the problem was or they were willing to take 15 minutes out of their busy day so I could install decades of how to knowledge in their brains. The other bit of joy was when they found out I knew about antiques and they would spent 15 minutes of my valuable time describing what ever they had in great detail. Usually it wasn't worth carry to the curb but their grandmother had it for a hundred years so it had to be worth hundreds of dollars at least.
That one was easy to answer. It's worth what ever you can get for it. Where should I try to sell it? Where ever you can.
Steve.
Everyone I met it seemed wanted me to correct the problems they were having with a piece of furniture without me seeing what they had and what the problem was or they were willing to take 15 minutes out of their busy day so I could install decades of how to knowledge in their brains. The other bit of joy was when they found out I knew about antiques and they would spent 15 minutes of my valuable time describing what ever they had in great detail. Usually it wasn't worth carry to the curb but their grandmother had it for a hundred years so it had to be worth hundreds of dollars at least.
That one was easy to answer. It's worth what ever you can get for it. Where should I try to sell it? Where ever you can.
Steve.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Tony I'm certain many of the guys on this forum relate to your post and have their own take on day to day exchanges with fringe followers of our hobby, and for some their actual business too. since I'm both retired and don't garner income from my bike hobbies I'm typically patient with these folks, yet I have my limits. I recognize the types you speak of and can't disagree with your aggrivation at them. Not a week goes by that someone inquires about buying a bike from me and I simply say it's my hobby and not a business. I sometimes refer them to a fabricator, but usually don't pass the headache on to a busy shop.
I have people stop by while I'm working and ask me how to build or repair something complex and I tell them I'd have to work out how before I could answer their question or come up with even a suggestion. They then proceed to tell me how they would do it and my reply is "There you go, you don't need me" Just because I'm retired doesn't mean I'm for hire for pay or for free.
Sharing on the forum, with men of like mind and interests is quite different I agree. Good group here and always room for more, experienced or new to the hobby. Pay it forward to those who are really interested in getting a decent start and aren't experts in their own eyes before assembling even their first pedal bike.
Man Tony that would be great if you could stop by on a major road trip and stay awhile to rest up, repair and just visit. There are several nice day rides which are close by and really interesting.
I have a couple of regional rides in mind one of which is several hundred miles round trip and the other about 1k again round trip. Thinking of just using electric but hybrid might be my best bet, but a lot of things have to go just right, health wise, for me to take either journey.
I second your thoughts about others on the forums builds and how they share the experience with us and who knows how many visitors following these sweet builds not just current builds either, but from the start of the forum and they are some of the most inspirational because they had to fab most everything (not many vendors back then) and figure out how to build a decent motorbike. They did too! We all benefited from their work and still do.
Thanks Tony for sharing with us.
Rick C.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Steve That was a really relevant post too. Life in the trades develops a treasury of stories with lessons attached some funny some painful, sometimes both. I hope I will never lose my memories, good, bad or indifferent. They are the best part of us and without them life would not have much meaning or flavor! By sharing these memories with each other we enrich lives and spirits.
Rick C.
Rick C.